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N5 - Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge [construction to commence shortly]

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  • spacetweek wrote: »
    The archaeology for the scheme was so thorough that the route of the future road is already clearly visible on Google Maps.
    You can easily see it in the aerial photography starting on the N5 to the east of Strokestown and heading northwest.

    There's a good report here on souterrains they excavated on the route near Elphin. Found a few bodies there as well.

    https://www.facebook.com/Rathcroghan/videos/661429764473290




  • The county council is planning a public realm enhancement scheme right now. The usual nonsense has started among local politicians and business owners about loss of parking. It's the 1 town in the county that has absolutely no quality public spaces, seating or parks, similar to Ballyhaunis and other towns in mid Connacht.

    Strokestown could have a very impressive main street if there was a bit of ambition. You could have perpendicular parking all along the road on either side and still have lots of space for nice public realm between that and the buildings. Lots of potential even with providing parking for all.




  • The county council is planning a public realm enhancement scheme right now. The usual nonsense has started among local politicians and business owners about loss of parking. It's the 1 town in the county that has absolutely no quality public spaces, seating or parks, similar to Ballyhaunis and other towns in mid Connacht.

    To be honest I'd really welcome the enhancement plan, the town needs some investment. Although even with the town bypassed I think the amount of HVGs going though the town to the Mill and Dairy plant would still make any public area off putting.

    Back on topic again. Is there a roundabout planned for the N5-N61 junction?




  • Yes, and also at Frenchpark and Strokestown.

    To be honest I'd really welcome the enhancement plan, the town needs some investment. Although even with the town bypassed I think the amount of HVGs going though the town to the Mill and Dairy plant would still make any public area off putting.

    Back on topic again. Is there a roundabout planned for the N5-N61 junction?




  • Yes, and also at Frenchpark and Strokestown.

    Thanks!

    Does anyone have a link to a detailed map showing structures etc?


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  • Reuben1210 wrote: »
    Thanks!

    Does anyone have a link to a detailed map showing structures etc?

    http://www.roscommoncoco.ie/en/Services/Roads/Publications-and-Information/N5-Ballaghaderreen-to-Scramoge-Road-Project/Public-Information-Day/

    Not the easiest to nagivate as the PDFs are big but it is detailed.




  • To be honest I'd really welcome the enhancement plan, the town needs some investment. Although even with the town bypassed I think the amount of HVGs going though the town to the Mill and Dairy plant would still make any public area off putting.

    Even with the N5 bypass coming, Strokestown could still do with a new road south of the town. This could also facilitate development of the town to the south. Unfortunately that level of investment doesn't seem likely on top of the N5.




  • Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Even with the N5 bypass coming, Strokestown could still do with a new road south of the town. This could also facilitate development of the town to the south. Unfortunately that level of investment doesn't seem likely on top of the N5.

    I think the next thing the needs to be urgently done is the N26 to Ballina. They are now replacing the bridge outside Swinford (the current brigde is a joke) and need to just keep going. There is no need for a new offline road but just upgrade the current road like what they have done on some sections of the N17 near Claremorris.




  • Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Even with the N5 bypass coming, Strokestown could still do with a new road south of the town. This could also facilitate development of the town to the south. Unfortunately that level of investment doesn't seem likely on top of the N5.

    There is a lot of boggy land out from Strokestown towards Dublin to meet the bypass and especially to the south out the Roscommon road. Originally the bypass was to swing out that direction but would have been an engineering nightmare with all the lakes, nevermind the heritage site issues towards Tulsk. That said, the initial stretch of the new road will be a tough slog through bogs as well for 2-3 km.
    There was plans to develop the old football pitch at one time, but that didn't work out.
    West and North of the town are far more suitable for development




  • paulbok wrote: »
    There is a lot of boggy land out from Strokestown towards Dublin to meet the bypass and especially to the south out the Roscommon road. Originally the bypass was to swing out that direction but would have been an engineering nightmare with all the lakes, nevermind the heritage site issues towards Tulsk. That said, the initial stretch of the new road will be a tough slog through bogs as well for 2-3 km.
    There was plans to develop the old football pitch at one time, but that didn't work out.
    West and North of the town are far more suitable for development


    15 or 20 years ago, that pitch was 'sold' in maybe 100 shares, on speculation that the bypass/new road would go through it.


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  • 15 or 20 years ago, that pitch was 'sold' in maybe 100 shares, on speculation that the bypass/new road would go through it.

    Don't mention the war




  • I've checked the drawings and it doesn't appear that this project includes a realignment of Scramogue Cross. A section of land on the Scramogue side of the junction has been recently fenced off though. Does anyone know more about this?

    I've also noticed there will be a surprisingly large number of local road accesses/ junctions on the new road. Any reason why this is so as it seems contrary to recent trends & TII guidelines.




  • I've checked the drawings and it doesn't appear that this project includes a realignment of Scramogue Cross. A section of land on the Scramogue side of the junction has been recently fenced off though. Does anyone know more about this?

    I've also noticed there will be a surprisingly large number of local road accesses/ junctions on the new road. Any reason why this is so as it seems contrary to recent trends & TII guidelines.

    Fully agree, compared to the Charlestown and Ballaghaderreen bypass, the road appears to be a lower standard junction/roundabout wise.

    But then, beggers can't be choosers and im glad it's getting done.




  • paulbok wrote: »
    There is a lot of boggy land out from Strokestown towards Dublin to meet the bypass and especially to the south out the Roscommon road. Originally the bypass was to swing out that direction but would have been an engineering nightmare with all the lakes, nevermind the heritage site issues towards Tulsk. That said, the initial stretch of the new road will be a tough slog through bogs as well for 2-3 km.
    There was plans to develop the old football pitch at one time, but that didn't work out.
    West and North of the town are far more suitable for development

    I was talking about a road parallel to Church Street from around Texaco/scania to the existing N5 on the other side. A road in the town rather than a bypass of further south.




  • Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    I was talking about a road parallel to Church Street from around Texaco/scania to the existing N5 on the other side. A road in the town rather than a bypass of further south.

    A route that way would involve crossing the r368 and another local road as well as a small river, awkward but doable. A fair bit of the land around the river would be unsuitable for any development, its on a flood plain, so wouldn't open up much except for just bypassing the town itself. With the new road taking the bulk of the traffic off between those 2 end points, it would be unnecessary, as well as never getting the go ahead.
    I did think before that if there was any other road built around the town, it would circle from north of the town to the n5, or whatever new designation it will have. A route fir that would really have to go entirely around the North of the town out the n5.
    The r368 from Elphin is reall narrow through the town and if you meet a truck on that road in the town, someone has to pull in. If 2 trucks meet and there is no space to pull in, it can cause delays.
    A lot of the trucks coming that way are from the local quarry and the bypass will take some of them out of the town, anything heading Longford direction anyway. Deliveries from the n5 to Elphin as well.


    With regards to the service stations, I had heard the local Westward garage had looked into building a new service station on the new bypass, but don't know if it got any traction.




  • paulbok wrote: »
    A route that way would involve crossing the r368 and another local road as well as a small river, awkward but doable. A fair bit of the land around the river would be unsuitable for any development, its on a flood plain, so wouldn't open up much except for just bypassing the town itself. With the new road taking the bulk of the traffic off between those 2 end points, it would be unnecessary, as well as never getting the go ahead.
    I did think before that if there was any other road built around the town, it would circle from north of the town to the n5, or whatever new designation it will have. A route fir that would really have to go entirely around the North of the town out the n5.
    The r368 from Elphin is reall narrow through the town and if you meet a truck on that road in the town, someone has to pull in. If 2 trucks meet and there is no space to pull in, it can cause delays.
    A lot of the trucks coming that way are from the local quarry and the bypass will take some of them out of the town, anything heading Longford direction anyway. Deliveries from the n5 to Elphin as well.


    With regards to the service stations, I had heard the local Westward garage had looked into building a new service station on the new bypass, but don't know if it got any traction.

    The Westward also owns/operates the filling station in Tarmonbarry, so hard to see them building another one close by to where they already operate 2 stations at present, unless they do it to keep someone else out.




  • Some details of the new scheme attached. It includes 16 T-junctions, but only 4 grade separated road crossings. I would imagine the cost of additional grade separation was difficult to justify given the relatively low traffic levels expected. We're fortunate enough that the entire scheme is type 1 - this had to be justified by the designers by stating that it was desirable to have a consistent cross section along the whole N5 (except W-T obviously).

    555683.jpg




  • General question: Is this the longest new-build Type 1 Single Carriageway scheme ever in Ireland?




  • Some details of the new scheme attached. It includes 16 T-junctions, but only 4 grade separated road crossings. I would imagine the cost of additional grade separation was difficult to justify given the relatively low traffic levels expected. We're fortunate enough that the entire scheme is type 1 - this had to be justified by the designers by stating that it was desirable to have a consistent cross section along the whole N5 (except W-T obviously).

    Are the 5 roundabouts in-line? I thought it was 4.

    5 roundabouts is a lot and in my view a poor design choice for a cross country road.

    Also 16 T junctions....




  • user1842 wrote: »
    Are the 5 roundabouts in-line? I thought it was 4.

    5 roundabouts is a lot and in my view a poor design choice for a cross country road.

    Also 16 T junctions....

    Ok, I looked at the maps in detail and count 3 in-line roundabouts and 2 off-line, not so bad :) but still 3 too many.


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  • Some details of the new scheme attached. It includes 16 T-junctions, but only 4 grade separated road crossings. I would imagine the cost of additional grade separation was difficult to justify given the relatively low traffic levels expected. We're fortunate enough that the entire scheme is type 1 - this had to be justified by the designers by stating that it was desirable to have a consistent cross section along the whole N5 (except W-T obviously).

    555683.jpg

    I would have thought Type 1 single carriageway would be a minimum requirement for any new road constructed on a national primary route but I guess not?




  • Is nothing going to happen to Scramogue Cross so?




  • Ideally it should be but there are a couple of exceptions I can think of, namely the N16 Lugatober and N26 schemes, both of which are type 2 single. The other planned N16 realignments may be type 2 also, I'm not sure of that though.

    I would have thought Type 1 single carriageway would be a minimum requirement for any new road constructed on a national primary route but I guess not?




  • They're just extending one junction slightly east. Such a pity.




  • They're just extending one junction slightly east. Such a pity.

    Indeed that is a pity, it looks like they are not doing much to it.




  • General question: Is this the longest new-build Type 1 Single Carriageway scheme ever in Ireland?

    Oh by a long way. The second longest is N5 Charlestown Bypass which opened in 2007 and is only 18.2 km.

    The N55 Athlone-Ballymahon is currently on hold but will only be 16.4 km.

    The N86 Tralee to Dingle will be 32 km but that doesn't count as it is being built in many stages and much of it is widening rather than new build.
    The N60 Castlebar to Claremorris is suspended (may happen after 2030) but I think that one may go ahead as small phases too.

    The reason they like building short sections of SC is so that small local contractors can have a chance to bid for them. Usually these contractors are way too small to be able to build national road schemes.




  • Between 2004 and when this opens in 2024, the N5 will have had an astonishing 75 km of new SC build (+20 km of DC!). Goes to show how much improvement it needed.

    The only scheme on it after that will be Bohola-Ballyvary (7.5 km). Last word on that is that it is a post-2027 scheme. East Castlebar to Turlough was originally in scope for the DC but was dropped, but it's not clear whether this is going to happen at all now.




  • spacetweek wrote: »
    Between 2004 and when this opens in 2024, the N5 will have had an astonishing 75 km of new SC build (+20 km of DC!). Goes to show how much improvement it needed.

    The only scheme on it after that will be Bohola-Ballyvary (7.5 km). Last word on that is that it is a post-2027 scheme. East Castlebar to Turlough was originally in scope for the DC but was dropped, but it's not clear whether this is going to happen at all now.


    Thanks for the infos. I would say though that it doesn't just show the improvement needed, it shows how politics has played a part. While this road is crap for instance, there are more needed schemes elsewhere, on worse roads. But politics, and the pushing of links to the west politically, meant the N5 was always the one you do for politics reasons.


    That said, I look forward to driving on this, as the only time I've ever driven this rancid section of N5 I was stuck behind a truck FOR THE WHOLE LENGTH.


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  • there are more needed schemes elsewhere, on worse roads. But politics, and the pushing of links to the west politically, meant the N5 was always the one you do for politics reasons.

    Care to give an example?


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