MENS: 'Mental' Health..

Sam Quentin · 10-06-2021 11:27am #1

Yes it gets talked about a-lot and yes that's fine. But now lots of women calling us out and speaking about Men's/our thought process. Like we Just don't like Jibba-jabberin so leave us alone. Women are just as 'mental' as men!?

there I said it.

Bobblehats · 10-06-2021 11:42am

The J Stands for Jay · 10-06-2021 11:43am

Sam Quentin wrote: »

But now lots of women calling us out and speaking about Men's/our thought process.

Do you have any examples?

Bobblehats · 10-06-2021 11:45am

McGaggs wrote: »

Do you have any examples?

Sam Quentin · 10-06-2021 11:46am

Like I just realised how easy women have it.. for the first time in my life I have an appointment for d barbers...yes I don't have to wait. All I have to do is turn up at a given time..no looking in d door and seeing 4 big heads a hair fellas waiting and me saying ahhh I'll be back later and heading round to Lidl or sumtin.. The luxury of it.

Sam Quentin · 10-06-2021 11:48am

McGaggs wrote: »

Do you have any examples?

Yes on some afternoon show yesterday(I've already said to much)

Bobblehats · 10-06-2021 11:59am

Sounds like some kind of phobia unnecessarily brought about. Next they’ll try and push an afrodisiac on you to calm the nerves. Needless to say don’t buy it…

The J Stands for Jay · 10-06-2021 12:01pm

Bobblehats wrote: »

Ok, just have a nice glass of milk instead.

Wibbs · 10-06-2021 12:01pm

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Yes on some afternoon show yesterday(I've already said to much)

Well there's your first mistake. Daytime telly. Principly aimed at a particular subset of suburban housewives slowly coalescing into their couch having a whinge, while talking about feature cushions, "spaces" and fancy cookery they'll attempt the once before the local poison unit is alerted. The witterings of their onscreen ringmasters can be comfortably ignored. If you find yourself bothered by such things, fry up a blue steak, with beer, fart loudly and often and watch reruns of classic Top Gear on youtube. Sorted.

The J Stands for Jay · 10-06-2021 12:02pm

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Yes on some afternoon show yesterday(I've already said to much)

I don't know what that is.

silverharp · 10-06-2021 12:39pm

branie2 · 10-06-2021 1:10pm

McGaggs wrote: »

Ok, just have a nice glass of milk instead.

I'd be careful about that

biko · 10-06-2021 2:07pm

Reading this thread affected my mental health.

WrenBoy · 10-06-2021 5:00pm

Listen mate, you just take that pain, fear and angst and you push it deep, deep down, periodically releasing a jet of rage from that internal pressure cooker at sports teams, ****e drivers or when you've had a skin-full down the pub. Then listen to everyone else tell you how bad they've got it and blame you for the worlds problems, then die prematurely from heart disease or something..

Like a man !!

Sam Quentin · 10-06-2021 6:26pm

WrenBoy wrote: »

Listen mate, you just take that pain, fear and angst and you push it deep, deep down, periodically releasing a jet of rage from that internal pressure cooker at sports teams, ****e drivers or when you've had a skin-full down the pub. Then listen to everyone else tell you how bad they've got it and blame you for the worlds problems, then die prematurely from heart disease or something..

Like a man !!

Well I rather get furious with one driver..
Than constantly and relentlessly just be kinda angry with all drivers. I noticed that the womans wont let me out at junctions,but the Mans mainly let me out at junctions...

py2006 · 10-06-2021 6:29pm

On a serious note, men's mental health does NOT get talked about a lot. We are starting to hear more about it lately alright.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-06-2021 6:36pm

py2006 wrote: »

On a serious note, men's mental health does NOT get talked about a lot. We are starting to hear more about it lately alright.

Funny thing is that people might agree that men's mental health is important and ought to be talked about as a serious aspect of men's health, but they will also scorne any man with a public profile who actually cares enough to talk about it publicly.

Thelonious Monk · 10-06-2021 6:44pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Funny thing is that people might agree that men's mental health is important and ought to be talked about as a serious aspect of men's health, but they will also scorne any man with a public profile who actually cares enough to talk about it publicly.

I don't know it seems like lots of famous men have mental health issues now and are lauded for it, Prince Harry etc.
Also "Mental Health" is now used by people who are inconvenienced somewhat, we saw a lot of it during covid - my mental health is suffering because I can't play golf, go to the pub, or go to the beach, that one seemed to be a popular one around these parts.

Yurt2 · 10-06-2021 7:30pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Funny thing is that people might agree that men's mental health is important and ought to be talked about as a serious aspect of men's health, but they will also scorne any man with a public profile who actually cares enough to talk about it publicly.

I found Alastair Campbell's (Tony Blair spin doctor) BBC documentary about his life-long battle with depression quite moving. Very humanizing because he came across as a complete thunderc*nt in his career and the worst type of grubby political operative - though his openness about his depression filled in the blanks a lot as to why he was the way he was.

10-06-2021 7:35pm

Yurt! wrote: »

I found Alastair Campbell's (Tony Blair spin doctor) BBC documentary about his life-long battle with depression quite moving. Very humanizing because he came across as a complete thunderc*nt in his career and the worst type of grubby political operative - though his openness about his depression filled in the blanks a lot as to why he was the way he was.

John prescott had the eating disorder bulimia afaik

Yurt2 · 10-06-2021 7:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

John prescott had the eating disorder bulimia afaik

He also had a mean left short jab!

Strumms · 10-06-2021 8:45pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Funny thing is that people might agree that men's mental health is important and ought to be talked about as a serious aspect of men's health, but they will also scorne any man with a public profile who actually cares enough to talk about it publicly.

The problem too is that there is a cohort that now see mental health, it’s growing importance in society and use it to excuse poor decisions and behaviors...

Somebody robs a car... “ well sorry but I haven’t been feeling myself *sad face * I’m very sorry I wrecked their Ford “

“ ok, you go home and look after yourself and be good, probation act “

Victims up an hour earlier to go to work, school etc on public transport, their mental health is never considered.

10-06-2021 8:59pm

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Like I just realised how easy women have it.. for the first time in my life I have an appointment for d barbers...yes I don't have to wait. All I have to do is turn up at a given time..no looking in d door and seeing 4 big heads a hair fellas waiting and me saying ahhh I'll be back later and heading round to Lidl or sumtin.. The luxury of it.

I hope members might learn from my woes and rash decision.

The day barbers opened after the lock down, beng a bit dishevelled , in traffic I passed by two barbers.
One had a queue, one with none. I rang the one with no queue and was told "sure drop in".
So I did.

Big mistake.
Boy did my mental health suffer.

ILoveYourVibes · 10-06-2021 11:52pm

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Like we Just don't like Jibba-jabberin so leave us alone. .

Some of you seem to enjoy it a lot on here.

Im kidding.

prove me wrong though

Sam Quentin · 11-06-2021 12:47am

py2006 wrote: »

On a serious note, men's mental health does NOT get talked about a lot. We are starting to hear more about it lately alright.

This is a serious note/post.. just didn't want to be lambasted for my honesty!? The words mental health, depression etc are being used much to willy-nilly and at the drop of a hat lately, especially about us MEN.. C'mon guys admit it anyone at all who has the confidence or stage to talk about anything 'private' is calling themselves depressed presently or in the past.. my biggest gripe is with 'heavy' drinkers blaming depression or some mental illnes,.. we're all bloody depressed then but only drunks drink about it!?

Tidyboii · 11-06-2021 1:04am

py2006 wrote: »

On a serious note, men's mental health does NOT get talked about a lot. We are starting to hear more about it lately alright.

This would be along my lines of thinking, especially when someone in the public eye speaks openly about it. And IMO the reason it gets so much attention is to let fellas know it is ok to talk about it

Wibbs · 11-06-2021 7:12am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Also "Mental Health" is now used by people who are inconvenienced somewhat, we saw a lot of it during covid - my mental health is suffering because I can't play golf, go to the pub, or go to the beach, that one seemed to be a popular one around these parts.

This. It can be increasingly difficult to tease out those like the aforementioned Alastair Campbell's genuine struggles and those quite simply having a whinge, often, if not usually for attention, or simply to fit in. This goes triple for "celebrities".

El_Duderino 09 · 11-06-2021 11:27am

Wibbs wrote: »

This. It can be increasingly difficult to tease out those like the aforementioned Alastair Campbell's genuine struggles and those quite simply having a whinge, often, if not usually for attention, or simply to fit in. This goes triple for "celebrities".

Yeah but how do you, personally, tell the difference between the two? Why is it your job to distinguish between them?

I think it's always hard to tell the difference between mild and acute, particularly when you've only experienced one and not the other. Take migraines as an example. My dad, sister and wife suffer/ed with migraines occasionally. If you've ever seen someone with a migraine then you'll know it's nothing like a headache. But when you describe a migraine it can sound a lot like a headache in so far as the primary symptom of both is a pain in the head. Someone who has a bad headache might think they have a migraine but they don't.

A friend was having a genuine relationship drama and we were chatting with him about it. One of the lads (a bit younger and at the stage of life where he was more interested in playing the field than having a girlfriend) said he totally understood. He went on to explain his own situation which boiled down to having a fcuk-buddy arrangement with 2 women who were friends, one of whom had feeling for him and he didn't want her to be cross that he was banging her friend too...

What I took from that situation was that I envied his naivety at thinking his situation was comparable to the other guy who was involved in a marriage breakup. Likewise, I really hope i never experience an actual migraine, and I hope the blokes who are feeling a bit down and call it depression, never experience a full on bout of depression or any other mental illness. But i don't think it's my job to discern the degree to which a bloke (celebrity or not) on the radio is experiencing a diagnosable bout of mental illness or just feeling a bit down - there are professionals to do that.

silverharp · 11-06-2021 12:16pm

A lot of the milder mental health issues like being depressed, listless, low self esteem etc. are largely down to framing how you see the world. There was someone coined a phrase "basket case theory" with the basic premise that people view most strangers as being perfect examples of people that have their sh1t together yet if they actually got to know them very well their flaws would be exposed and they would just be as crazy as they think they are themselves

Another angle to framing is sorta assuming everyone is better /more skilled etc. yet statistically everyone on the planet has 0% skills, take someone like Tiger Woods, best golfer in the world but most people here are better drivers and for men better husbands. I think a basic strategy in life is having some things however small that you have control over, so it could be things like diet, fitness, how you dress even.

El_Duderino 09 · 11-06-2021 12:28pm

silverharp wrote: »

A lot of the milder mental health issues like being depressed, listless, low self esteem etc. are largely down to framing how you see the world. There was someone coined a phrase "basket case theory" with the basic premise that people view most strangers as being perfect examples of people that have their sh1t together yet if they actually got to know them very well their flaws would be exposed and they would just be as crazy as they think they are themselves

Another angle to framing is sorta assuming everyone is better /more skilled etc. yet statistically everyone on the planet has 0% skills, take someone like Tiger Woods, best golfer in the world but most people here are better drivers and for men better husbands. I think a basic strategy in life is having some things however small that you have control over, so it could be things like diet, fitness, how you dress even.

Classing depression as "milder mental health issue" kinda sums up why there should be more, good quality, open discussion of mental health/ill health.

silverharp · 11-06-2021 12:51pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Classing depression as "milder mental health issue" kinda sums up why there should be more, good quality, open discussion of mental health/ill health.

I specifically said being depressed not debilitating depression that forces people off work etc. I phrased it specifically but you chose to ignore it

El_Duderino 09 · 11-06-2021 12:58pm

silverharp wrote: »

I specifically said being depressed not debilitating depression that forces people off work etc. I phrased it specifically but you chose to ignore it

No. You didn't say any of that stuff. It might have been what you were thinking, but you didn't say that. You said "
A lot of the milder mental health issues like being depressed, listless, low self esteem etc".

I'll take you at your word if that's what you meant to say, but it's pretty clear you didn't say any of that.

Wibbs · 11-06-2021 1:07pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah but how do you, personally, tell the difference between the two? Why is it your job to distinguish between them?

I never said it was, but we all make judgements on a daily basis on many things.

But i don't think it's my job to discern the degree to which a bloke (celebrity or not) on the radio is experiencing a diagnosable bout of mental illness or just feeling a bit down - there are professionals to do that.

Indeed yet it seems they're not doing so well at their diagnoses or treatments. It is a near given when new treatments and medical theories and more specialists are fired at a medical problem there's naturally an initial spike in numbers of those diagnosed, followed by a corresponding rise in "cures" and drop in overall numbers. This hasn't happened with mental illnesses. The rates indeed have gone up over the last few decades as more and more such illnesses are added to an expanding list. In the US where medicalisation with a z has gone ever up, after a tapering off in the 90's the rate of suicide is now the highest since world war 2. Yet we have apparently far more treatments, avenues of treatment, lower rates of stigma and more people talking about mental illness than ever. Nobody was discussing mental illnesses in the 40's and 50's and therapies were few and far between and yet...

We're also still being peddled the "chemical imbalance" mantra around mental illness, something that has pretty much zero evidence for it and can even increase the risk of pessimism about recovery and more depressive symptoms. One study among many here.

Results: Biochemical and genetic causal attributions for depression were significantly associated with prognostic pessimism among symptomatic individuals. The malleability intervention significantly reduced prognostic pessimism, increased feelings of agency, and decreased general hopelessness.

And I'll bet the farm many reading this will believe in this unproven "chemical imbalance" theory.

And those drugs like SSRI's that supposed to correct this imbalance are being handed out in a similar way that antibiotics were handed out(which didn't pan out too well) too often after an usually all too brief consultation with a local GP have some serious questions around efficacy in mild to medium levels of depression/anxiety and some serious side effects, including more suicide ideation, never mind withdrawal from them. Never mind that the criterias and questionaires for their perscription were drafted by the makers of these drugs. This is not "big pharma" guff, it is what it is, they did the research and produced the drugs, so naturally they will promote them.

Take efficacy. Best case studies show 5-6% difference between placebo and SSRI's in mild to moderate cases. This from the British Royal College of GP's.

Are antidepressants effective for mild-to-moderate depression?

The majority of patients in primary care with depression are in the mild (6%) or moderate levels of severity (3.9%) and 3.9% are in the moderate-severe to severe range (Table 2). Patient level meta-analysis found that the NNT for milder-to-moderate depression was 16, 11 for severe, and for very severe 4.16 The median control event rate (the placebo response) is about 47% in primary care trials of antidepressants. 18 An NNT of 16 represents a 6% gain in terms of a better outcome. Thus, in a randomised controlled trial of patients in the mild-to-moderate range 53% would get better with an active medication and 47% would get better with placebo. The authors of this patient level meta-analysis found that true drug effects (for instance an advantage of antidepressant medication over placebo) were non-existent with mild-to-moderate and even severe baseline symptoms but were large for those with very severe symptoms.

NB the underlined. Stong efficacy for very severe, feck all for mild/moderate. Put it another way; in a best case scenario of a 6% difference in outcome with an antibiotic over a placebo, would you consider that a worthwhile antibiotic, would you take one for an infection? I doubt it and yet how many people out there are on these meds?

11-06-2021 1:47pm

The pushing of the "female" as the ideal and only way to behave isn't helpful for roughly half the population. Talking about stuff can help but a lot of the time it doesn't. I find once I've thought something out I don't really need to talk about it again. Usually if something is affecting me then talking about it just reaffirms whatever (usually negative) conclusion I've already come to.
If anything the whole "just talk" thing comes across as glib and condescending half the time to me.
As well as that there's the denial of reality thing. I had an awful year last year (parent got cancer, made redundant, car failed completely, had to find a new place to live, injured myself, put on weight, all that jazz) and while thankfully most of my mates put up with the odd moan the more right-on and in-tune with the current thought on how to deal with stuff would be like "Ah ya can't let that get you down." and "Yeah but there's no point focussing on the negatives". Yeah, real ****in helpful. Sometimes things are just ****e and you should be feeling pretty ****e about them.

As for SSRIs they seem like they have a use in some cases, even if it's just to give a nudge or slightly reboot some parts of thought processes and patterns.
Unfortunately they seem to be moving towards any sadness being certifiable. The latest DSM got rid of the suggestion that maybe someone feeling sad up to 6 weeks after a bereavement is, ya know, grieving, and anti-depressants are probably the answer.

Feisar · 11-06-2021 1:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The pushing of the "female" as the ideal and only way to behave isn't helpful for roughly half the population. Talking about stuff can help but a lot of the time it doesn't. I find once I've thought something out I don't really need to talk about it again. Usually if something is affecting me then talking about it just reaffirms whatever (usually negative) conclusion I've already come to.
If anything the whole "just talk" thing comes across as glib and condescending half the time to me.
As well as that there's the denial of reality thing. I had an awful year last year (parent got cancer, made redundant, car failed completely, had to find a new place to live, injured myself, put on weight, all that jazz) and while thankfully most of my mates put up with the odd moan the more right-on and in-tune with the current thought on how to deal with stuff would be like "Ah ya can't let that get you down." and "Yeah but there's no point focussing on the negatives". Yeah, real ****in helpful. Sometimes things are just ****e and you should be feeling pretty ****e about them.

Yea sometimes one just needs to grit their teeth and lean into the breeze.

Talking/looking at positives amounts to doodle squat.

silverharp · 11-06-2021 2:12pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No. You didn't say any of that stuff. It might have been what you were thinking, but you didn't say that. You said "
A lot of the milder mental health issues like being depressed, listless, low self esteem etc".

I'll take you at your word if that's what you meant to say, but it's pretty clear you didn't say any of that.

Ill go with my use of the English language thanks, on the quickest of google searches there were any number of articled headed thus

https://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/mentalhealthforthedigitalgeneration/2017/10/the-difference-between-being-depressed-and-having-depression

The Difference Between Being Depressed and Having Depression

11-06-2021 2:13pm

Feisar wrote: »

Talking/looking at positives amounts to doodle squat.

Sorry answer a bit long

but why not - if someone generally in mental health distress reads the thread they might get something out of it. If not then it cost me only 10 minutes of my time so no great loss:

It does and it doesn't. The people to be wary of are the ones who sell anything as a definite solution. If they are telling you talk will definitely help - or meditation will definitely help - or changing from a sedentary life to one of exercise will definitely help - then they are talking crap at you.

What talk - meditation - exercise - diet changes - CBT - or whatever are - are potentially useful tools to help you move from one level of well being to a better level of well being. They can be tried - they might work - they might not. The trick is to try. So be equally wary of the people who tell you some possible solution will definitely not help or do "doodle squat" too

Worse - there is no guarantee that because it did not work once that it will not work the next time. You can talk 100 times about your mental health problems with 20 different people and get absolutely nothing out of it.

But suddenly with person 21 something clicks. Maybe the chemistry between you. Maybe a thought occurred to you that time that did not another time. Maybe that person simply asks an off hand question that makes you consider everything in a new light. Or maybe they say the same thing the previous 20 did but in a new and unique way. Who knows. But just because talking does not help when you try it - that does not tell you it never will. Or ever will. It's entirely down to the individual whether to try it again.

For me "talking" helped far in my past. Not even because of the talking itself. But the person I was talking to just gave me a few key words I had never heard before. And language is powerful stuff sometimes. Simply having a word for something that you never did before - can help you form ideas and plans and concepts that you otherwise might not have. For me the words "Enmeshment" and "External Locus of Evaluation" were trigger points for a complete overhaul of my outlook in the world and of myself and my own self worth.

And I have heard others say the same thing that they suffered for a long time with something and then suddenly when they got a word for that something - changes occurred in them. The Podcaster Blindboy is an example I think - who also speaks about how the simple discovery of the word "Panic Attack" was a flash point in his climbing out of all kinds of mental health issues.

So it is good we are talking about Mental Health more often and more publicly in society. Even if just because some words or concepts might reach the right ear at the right moment and change everything for them.

I guess this was part of the premise behind the book 1984 by Orwell. The Ministry was removing words from the English Language not just to control communication. But also because the less words the populace had - the less likely they were to arrive at anti-state concepts like "freedom" and "individuality" and "rights". In the opposite direction putting new words into your brain that were not there before can coalesce all kinds of new thoughts and ideas and premises that can help you in many ways.

El_Duderino 09 · 11-06-2021 2:22pm

silverharp wrote: »

Ill go with my use of the English language thanks, on the quickest of google searches there were any number of articled headed thus

https://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/mentalhealthforthedigitalgeneration/2017/10/the-difference-between-being-depressed-and-having-depression

I take the correction. I am now an example of how there ought to be more good quality, open discussion of mental health/ill health.

11-06-2021 2:23pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Also "Mental Health" is now used by people who are inconvenienced somewhat, we saw a lot of it during covid - my mental health is suffering because I can't play golf, go to the pub, or go to the beach, that one seemed to be a popular one around these parts.

I know what you mean. There are a lot of whinge bags in the world. But at the same time I would not jump to that conclusion with any particular individual who is complaining they can not get down the gym or the pub.

Mental Health and Well being can have many sources and be quite individual. What we derive it from as individuals can vary. But there are _some_ things that are quite common.

Routine - hope - security - and meaning tend to be some of them. There was some things written about "hope" in Nazi Concentration Camps for example. The people most likely to survive those camps were the ones who held on to some kind of hope and meaning. Actually I recommend a good podcast that came out recently speaking about the people who intentionally got themselves put into such camps. As in part of it they cover that exact thing.

So for some people having their routine stripped away - or the things that they derived meaning from (however mundane their thing might seem to us - like golf) can be quite jarring for them.

So if someone presented to me saying they are suffering Mental Health decline because they could not follow their particular hobby - I think my first reaction would be empathy rather than disdain or assuming they are just having a whinge. Rather I would try and work out with them what security - routing - or meaning that hobby brought them and then work with them to discover if they could find the same things elsewhere.

11-06-2021 2:24pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I take the correction. I am now an example of how there ought to be more good quality, open discussion of mental health/ill health.

Not sure why - but open and genuine "Mea Culpa" moments always bring a tear to my eye and bring me increased respect for the person who did it.

Christy42 · 11-06-2021 2:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The pushing of the "female" as the ideal and only way to behave isn't helpful for roughly half the population. Talking about stuff can help but a lot of the time it doesn't. I find once I've thought something out I don't really need to talk about it again. Usually if something is affecting me then talking about it just reaffirms whatever (usually negative) conclusion I've already come to.
If anything the whole "just talk" thing comes across as glib and condescending half the time to me.
As well as that there's the denial of reality thing. I had an awful year last year (parent got cancer, made redundant, car failed completely, had to find a new place to live, injured myself, put on weight, all that jazz) and while thankfully most of my mates put up with the odd moan the more right-on and in-tune with the current thought on how to deal with stuff would be like "Ah ya can't let that get you down." and "Yeah but there's no point focussing on the negatives". Yeah, real ****in helpful. Sometimes things are just ****e and you should be feeling pretty ****e about them.

As for SSRIs they seem like they have a use in some cases, even if it's just to give a nudge or slightly reboot some parts of thought processes and patterns.
Unfortunately they seem to be moving towards any sadness being certifiable. The latest DSM got rid of the suggestion that maybe someone feeling sad up to 6 weeks after a bereavement is, ya know, grieving, and anti-depressants are probably the answer.

While I accept people will deal with in different ways the framing it as "female" is pretty random. Many, many men have said that talking has helped them. No need for you to call their way "female" while you are at it. It isn't. It is just their way of dealing with it and something that has helped people whatever gender they have.

Your friends are also not in tune with the modern way of looking at it (or at least the ones who told you to get over it). The modern way of dealing with it is to simply be there for someone. Either to listen or simply sit with them in silence for a bit if that is what they want. Again this may not be for everyone but I would not be labeling it with a gender.

11-06-2021 2:46pm

Christy42 wrote: »

While I accept people will deal with in different ways the framing it as "female" is pretty random. Many, many men have said that talking has helped them. No need for you to call their way "female" while you are at it. It isn't. It is just their way of dealing with it and something that has helped people whatever gender they have.

It's the whole "Men don't talk" thing and how they need to be more like women in order to reduce suicide rates etc. "Just talk", "don't keep it to yourself", all that glib nonsense.
I put it in inverted commas because it's just another little product being used to push something.

Your friends are also not in tune with the modern way of looking at it (or at least the ones who told you to get over it). The modern way of dealing with it is to simply be there for someone. Either to listen or simply sit with them in silence for a bit if that is what they want. Again this may not be for everyone but I would not be labeling it with a gender.

No no, they don't say "get over it" because that's not good, they throw some nonsense buzzwords from the last Instagram meme they saw but it amounts to the same thing. "Can't let things get you down" etc., even when the only way to not get down about stuff would be to have some pretty amazing cognitive dissonance and/or powers of denial.

Back In Cagie Wagie · 11-06-2021 2:47pm

I never expected anything good to happen to me in life and guess what, nothing good ever did happen. So now I grind out the days, spend as much time as possible drunk and see escorts. And yet I've never been depressed or had mental problems.

So how come a fcuked up loser like me is better equipped to deal with life than many successful people?

Christy42 · 11-06-2021 2:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's the whole "Men don't talk" thing and how they need to be more like women in order to reduce suicide rates etc. "Just talk", "don't keep it to yourself", all that glib nonsense.
I put it in inverted commas because it's just another little product being used to push something.

No no, they don't say "get over it" because that's not good, they throw some nonsense buzzwords from the last Instagram meme they saw but it amounts to the same thing. "Can't let things get you down" etc., even when the only way to not get down about stuff would be to have some pretty amazing cognitive dissonance and/or powers of denial.

If it isn't only for women then why do you think it doesn't work for half the population? It isn't anything about being more like women. It means talking has helped many people. Talking about problems does not have a gender.

Like I said can't let things get you down or whatever is not the modern way to deal with it. In fact it sounds very much like the 1900s method of stiff upper lip just rephrased slightly

Wibbs · 11-06-2021 2:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's the whole "Men don't talk" thing and how they need to be more like women in order to reduce suicide rates etc. "Just talk", "don't keep it to yourself", all that glib nonsense.

Interestingly the suicide rates for men were lower in the era of "stiff upper lip", even accounting for lower reporting. EG the demographic once one of the least likely to have suicide ideation, who now have one of the highest are middle aged men. I would most certainly favour talk therapy and things like CBT over more drugs, but it seems something is going wrong in modern western society and we need to be looking at the whys of that, otherwise we're papering over the cracks to some degree.

In a society like America this is even more stark. In say the 1950's when mental illness was a stigma, treatments were non existent or unhelpful for the most part and guns were much more easily available, the number of shooting sprees and murder/suicides by men was absolutely tiny. That really took off in the 90's.

Wibbs · 11-06-2021 3:00pm

Christy42 wrote: »

Like I said can't let things get you down or whatever is not the modern way to deal with it.

Just because something is "modern" and currently fashionable doesn't give any real indication of its efficacy and the rise of mental illnesses particularly in men seems to back that up. Results matter and the results don't look so great. I'm not saying go stiff upper lip either, but we need to spread our focuses more widely.

Strumms · 11-06-2021 11:22pm

Back In Cagie Wagie wrote: »

I never expected anything good to happen to me in life and guess what, nothing good ever did happen. So now I grind out the days, spend as much time as possible drunk and see escorts. And yet I've never been depressed or had mental problems.

So how come a fcuked up loser like me is better equipped to deal with life than many successful people?

You have hobbies that’s good, you are an alcohol connoisseur and you have an interest in old ‘80s family, everyday saloons.

SEPT 23 1989 · 11-06-2021 11:32pm

Back In Cagie Wagie wrote: »

I never expected anything good to happen to me in life and guess what, nothing good ever did happen. So now I grind out the days, spend as much time as possible drunk and see escorts. And yet I've never been depressed or had mental problems.

So how come a fcuked up loser like me is better equipped to deal with life than many successful people?

Wine,women and song

It's worked for thousands of years

Nothing wrong with it

Sam Quentin · 12-06-2021 12:56am

Back In Cagie Wagie wrote: »

I never expected anything good to happen to me in life and guess what, nothing good ever did happen. So now I grind out the days, spend as much time as possible drunk and see escorts. And yet I've never been depressed or had mental problems.

So how come a fcuked up loser like me is better equipped to deal with life than many successful people?

Because you're not a greedy or jealous person..both of which can be easily curtailed or ignored and not acted on..

MENS: 'Mental' Health..

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