French Open 2021

Girly Gal · 09-06-2021 10:17PM

Was the Nadal v Djokovic semi final ever really in any doubt, men's tennis really is getting boring now. Rinse and repeat for Wimbledon as the winner between Djokovic and Nadal will most likely win there too. Men's tennis really needs one of the next gen guys to come through and win a slam or two, it ain't gonna happen here and highly unlikely at Wimbledon either, maybe at the US or AO, but, I'd still fancy Djokovic or Nadal for both, then we're back at next year's FO and we all know who's going to win that!

Royale with Cheese · 09-06-2021 10:20PM

Nadal won't get near the Wimbledon title. Barring some kind of absolute miracle from Federer you can probably just hand the title to Djokovic now unless he clocks a line judge in the face again or something.

09-06-2021 10:25PM

Girly Gal wrote: »

Was the Nadal v Djokovic semi final ever really in any doubt, men's tennis really is getting boring now. Rinse and repeat for Wimbledon as the winner between Djokovic and Nadal will most likely win there too. Men's tennis really needs one of the next gen guys to come through and win a slam or two, it ain't gonna happen here and highly unlikely at Wimbledon either, maybe at the US or AO, but, I'd still fancy Djokovic or Nadal for both, then we're back at next year's FO and we all know who's going to win that!

I think that it's great.

2 of the best ever players still playing at a great standard, who amazingly still have the hunger and passion after so many great achievements and some good up and comers.

WTA on the otherhand consists of 50 flakey plodders and cry-baby millennials who have the consistency of an Irish Summer and the standard is muck on the whole.

average world ranking of 42 in the semi-finals of a grand slam ffs.

even the commentators don't have a rashers who they are.

pathetic.

seligehgit · 09-06-2021 10:27PM

I'm looking forward to this clash of the titans as much as ever.

Girly Gal · 10-06-2021 04:10AM

glasso wrote: »

I think that it's great.

2 of the best ever players still playing at a great standard, who amazingly still have the hunger and passion after so many great achievements and some good up and comers.

WTA on the otherhand consists of 50 flakey plodders and cry-baby millennials who have the consistency of an Irish Summer and the standard is muck on the whole.

average world ranking of 42 in the semi-finals of a grand slam ffs.

even the commentators don't have a rashers who they are.

pathetic.

I agree with you regarding the women's game, it's been like that for years, but, disagree regarding the up and comers in the men's game they aren't up to standard, only one player (Theim) in their twenties has won a slam and only because Djokovic got disqualified at the US Open, that's shocking, they're even struggling to make slam finals, even an over the hill Federer has a better record than any of the next gen guys over the last 5 years at GS level. When Djokovic and Nadal do retire, we'll see outsiders comes along and win some slams, also if Tsitsipas for example ends up winning 10 slams which is possible, but, only wins them when Djokovic and Nadal retire, could he really be described as a great of the game?

Slashermcguirk · 10-06-2021 05:44AM

I think the mens tennis is super. You are watching three of the greatest players of all time fighting it out year after year. Their longevity at the top just shows how remarkable they are. Make no mistake, the players these guys have been beating over the past 10 years have been really good:

Wawrinka, Murray, del potro, cilic, tsitsipas, Ferrer, Medvedev, thiem, nishikori, Tsonga, berdych, Nalbandian. All of these guys in another era could win multiple slams but they are playing against freak talents. I know Wawrinka and Murray have both won 3 slams but the fact that most of those guys have not even won one slam just shows how competitive mens tennis has been.

The womens on the other hand has been an utter shambles for nearly 15 years. The moment Henin retired and the likes of Hingis and Clijsters fell away there was no competition. Henin had a great record against Serena but she retired so young, after that Serena had no rivals the past 10 years and the players she did face regularly never had enough game.

When Nadal, Djokovic and Federer retire, it's going to leave a gaping hole in mens tennis. We may never see ths likes of them again.

Rob2D · 10-06-2021 07:25AM

I'll have to agree that this really is the best outcome. I'd much rather watch these legends than some loser kids. IMO tennis is going to become so incredibly boring AFTER these guys retire. I can forsee myself starting to watch a lot more of the Champions tour in the future......

I'll continue rooting for the old guys. Just like if you sent me back in time to '91, I know who I'd be shouting for then as well: "If he didn't want it, I was more than happy to stay out there and try to take it." :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56bXXhHfYaY

Slashermcguirk · 10-06-2021 07:41AM

Absolutely and rivalries make sport. The matches between Djokovic, Nadal and Federer have been so epic. While Nadal has a pretty lopsided record vs Federer due to playing styles just look at the other head to heads:

Djokovic 29 Nadal 28
Djokovic 27 Federer 23

The fact that all 3 adapted to the different surfaces has made it all the better and impressive

Girly Gal · 10-06-2021 07:50AM

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

I think the mens tennis is super. You are watching three of the greatest players of all time fighting it out year after year. Their longevity at the top just shows how remarkable they are. Make no mistake, the players these guys have been beating over the past 10 years have been really good:

Wawrinka, Murray, del potro, cilic, tsitsipas, Ferrer, Medvedev, thiem, nishikori, Tsonga, berdych, Nalbandian. All of these guys in another era could win multiple slams but they are playing against freak talents. I know Wawrinka and Murray have both won 3 slams but the fact that most of those guys have not even won one slam just shows how competitive mens tennis has been.

The womens on the other hand has been an utter shambles for nearly 15 years. The moment Henin retired and the likes of Hingis and Clijsters fell away there was no competition. Henin had a great record against Serena but she retired so young, after that Serena had no rivals the past 10 years and the players she did face regularly never had enough game.

When Nadal, Djokovic and Federer retire, it's going to leave a gaping hole in mens tennis. We may never see ths likes of them again.

I agree with most of the above, certainly the women's game has been poor since around the late noughties, Serena really had no competition for around 10 years, looks like it might be starting to pick up again, but, they're all so inconsistent it's unbelievable really.
The standard in the Men's game was amazing from around 2005 to 2016 and while the big 3, certainly Nadal and Djokovic still play to a high level, the general standard hasn't been as good since around 2017 onwards. The fact Federer and Nadal contested the AO final in 2017 after both had long layoffs was a real indicator that the general level had dropped off. Still much more competitive than the women's game and the level much higher, but, certainly a level below what we saw between 2005-2016, tbf we'll never probably see that level of tennis again. We've been lucky to witness probably the 3 greatest players play each other over the last 15 years or so and it only when they are gone that we'll really appreciate how good they were. The next gen lads are a few levels below.

Slashermcguirk · 10-06-2021 08:16AM

I think 2007 - 2016 was absolute peak. 2010 and 2011 were immense, the level Nadal played in 2010 and Djokovic in 2011 was off the charts. It was like two players from a parallel universe.

quote="Girly Gal;117385806"]I agree with most of the above, certainly the women's game has been poor since around the late noughties, Serena really had no competition for around 10 years, looks like it might be starting to pick up again, but, they're all so inconsistent it's unbelievable really.
The standard in the Men's game was amazing from around 2005 to 2016 and while the big 3, certainly Nadal and Djokovic still play to a high level, the general standard hasn't been as good since around 2017 onwards. The fact Federer and Nadal contested the AO final in 2017 after both had long layoffs was a real indicator that the general level had dropped off. Still much more competitive than the women's game and the level much higher, but, certainly a level below what we saw between 2005-2016, tbf we'll never probably see that level of tennis again. We've been lucky to witness probably the 3 greatest players play each other over the last 15 years or so and it only when they are gone that we'll really appreciate how good they were. The next gen lads are a few levels below.[/quote]

Hector Savage · 10-06-2021 08:39AM

Some posts have been deleted i see, (not mine - well one where I quoted said post) guess some truths can't be said ...

Furze99 · 10-06-2021 08:49AM

Girly Gal wrote: »

Was the Nadal v Djokovic semi final ever really in any doubt, men's tennis really is getting boring now. Rinse and repeat for Wimbledon as the winner between Djokovic and Nadal will most likely win there too. Men's tennis really needs one of the next gen guys to come through and win a slam or two, it ain't gonna happen here and highly unlikely at Wimbledon either, maybe at the US or AO, but, I'd still fancy Djokovic or Nadal for both, then we're back at next year's FO and we all know who's going to win that!

That's why I thought Djokovic's antics last night were so poor - it's as if in his head he thinks he has a divine right to win. How dare some upstart take a set off him, save two match points etc. It was piss poor behaviour towards a player further down the rankings who has a good a right as any to break through. It's a bully mentality - Serena has done it as well against younger players in the past. I used to admire Novak and as said above regarded him more highly than other two, but when his true colours show through - he's just shown up to be quite unlikable.

Slashermcguirk · 10-06-2021 09:09AM

I think people misunderstand Novak, he is just an intense player. He has built a career on playing his best tennis when it matters most and so often with crowd support against him because he broke up the duopoly between Federer and Nadal.

What is interesting to note though is he is very popular with players on tour. He is often spoken about very favourably by the next Gen, thiem, zverev, Medvedev etc all talk about how approachable he is off court compared to Fedal. You even just have to listen to Medvedev runner up speech in this years Australian open. Murray and Wawrinka are good friends with him and I have heard countless other players say he is among the nicest guys behind the scenes.

I think he does certain things on court that he shouldn't but I think he is hugely misunderstood. There is so much snobbery in tennis and he so often has to battle his opponent and the crowd simultaneously. The fact is the more the crowd try and bring him down it only inspires him and makes him more determined to win.

Just look at what he put up with in the Wimbledon final in 2019 and at us open final in 2015, both vs Federer. He was playing against the whole stadium but as is so often the case, he silenced them all. He and Nadal are the ultimate competitors

Furze99 wrote: »

That's why I thought Djokovic's antics last night were so poor - it's as if in his head he thinks he has a divine right to win. How dare some upstart take a set off him, save two match points etc. It was piss poor behaviour towards a player further down the rankings who has a good a right as any to break through. It's a bully mentality - Serena has done it as well against younger players in the past. I used to admire Novak and as said above regarded him more highly than other two, but when his true colours show through - he's just shown up to be quite unlikable.

Rob2D · 10-06-2021 09:13AM

Furze99 wrote: »

That's why I thought Djokovic's antics last night were so poor - it's as if in his head he thinks he has a divine right to win. How dare some upstart take a set off him, save two match points etc. It was piss poor behaviour towards a player further down the rankings who has a good a right as any to break through.

That's the game.

John McEnroe: "Basically, it's a sport for killers."

Christy42 · 10-06-2021 09:18AM

Rob2D wrote: »

That's the game.

John McEnroe: "Basically, it's a sport for killers."

I think all sports are like that. Even if you have been on the worst streak you need to think that this one is yours.

In most sports I have seen the top guys being described as arrogant. And they normally agree with it.

Fed seems to have the charisma at times to not seem it quite as much but it is still there.

Augme · 10-06-2021 09:39AM

Furze99 wrote: »

That's why I thought Djokovic's antics last night were so poor - it's as if in his head he thinks he has a divine right to win. How dare some upstart take a set off him, save two match points etc. It was piss poor behaviour towards a player further down the rankings who has a good a right as any to break through. It's a bully mentality - Serena has done it as well against younger players in the past. I used to admire Novak and as said above regarded him more highly than other two, but when his true colours show through - he's just shown up to be quite unlikable.

Billy mentality? Please. This up and coming players need to stop being so mentally weak if they feel what Novak did is disrespectful tbh. Maybe of they showed the same passion and emotion they wouldn't be still struggling to perform on the big occasions.

10-06-2021 09:57AM

Winners win.

It's not bridge.

I doubt if Berrettini is offended.

If anything he's privileged to encounter a great at the business end of a slam to see what's required to be a great.

To see the enduring hunger.

These matches mould the ones who come after.

Maybe Berrettini can make it to rise another level, (he's a bit lacking in pace) maybe he won't. But he has an idea what the level is first-hand.

Otherwise standards slip down and down. Into the abyss.

Aka WTA.

10-06-2021 10:49AM

I would be surprised if "Djokodal" @ RG is as one-sided as last year.

Last year I thought that Nadal was unplayable at RG

Hopefully Djokovic can keep serving as well he has been this week

Hopefully also he arrives as pumped up as he left the court last night (maybe he told the wife to hold off on any action until Friday night!) and that he can avoid letting Nadal's OCD antics getting to him

Then we have a match (I think).

Slashermcguirk · 10-06-2021 11:06AM

If Djokovic brings his A game it could be an epic match, that's a big if though. I really feel the 1st set is crucial for Novak. If he could somehow nick it, then I think it could be a great contest. He doesnt tend to be a fast starter and that would be the worry here. Giving Nadal an early lead on Chatrier is a disaster.

Fingers crossed it's a great match and may the best player win. Just have to hope Tsitsipas wins the other semi as I think he would make the final most competitive

Furze99 · 10-06-2021 11:26AM

Augme wrote: »

Billy mentality? Please. This up and coming players need to stop being so mentally weak if they feel what Novak did is disrespectful tbh. Maybe of they showed the same passion and emotion they wouldn't be still struggling to perform on the big occasions.

So you'd like to see the game descending into a series of rants when players are beaten by good shots. Players kicking the side hoardings, roaring and ranting? Sure, let them all follow this mentality and then they maybe they can win like Novak?

What he did last night was intended consciously or unconsciously to destabilise & distract Berrettini at a critical point. There are rules about racket abuse and hitting the net and so on, in that context - the umpire should have been able to give that game to Berrettini and moved onto a tie break. That's how you stop that sort of obnoxious carry on

Augme · 10-06-2021 11:38AM

Furze99 wrote: »

So you'd like to see the game descending into a series of rants when players are beaten by good shots. Players kicking the side hoardings, roaring and ranting? Sure, let them all follow this mentality and then they maybe they can win like Novak?

What he did last night was intended consciously or unconsciously to destabilise & distract Berrettini at a critical point. There are rules about racket abuse and hitting the net and so on, in that context - the umpire should have been able to give that game to Berrettini and moved onto a tie break. That's how you stop that sort of obnoxious carry on

I've no problem with players showing emotion on match point. They are competitive athletes after all. I'd much rather that the a shrug of the shoulder and a who cares attitude.

It was. And just like what Federrer did when he argued with the umpire and challenged Cilic in their match was either a conscious or unconscious attempt to distract and destabilise Cilic and the umpire and just like what Nadal did when he spoke to the umpire about staring the game shot too quickly. In fact, both of those were far more conscious acts.

I think Novak's was more just an in the moment release to make himself focus on even harder on how big that situation was.

But that's why those three players are so good. They are the ultimate competitor's. It's just instinctive with all 3. No one would tennis then if it just became a sport where showing emotion and frustration was completely outlawed.

Slashermcguirk · 10-06-2021 11:58AM

If there was no emotion, the game would be so dull. If you look through the generations there were all sorts of top players having outbursts, McEnroe, Connors, Becker, Safin, Roddick etc. You cant just expect all players to act like robots. None of us can fully understand what it is like to be competing in that pressure cauldron they are experiencing.

I for one love the different personalities and the way they react to different situations. With Djokovic, he wears his heart on his sleeve and yes it can come across a bit much for some but he nearly always plays better after he has that release. All the top players have their ways of dealing with situations, Federer, Nadal and co all do it and put their opponents off in different ways.

I think the different personalities is what makes tennis interesting and the rivalries all the more intense.

Furze99 wrote: »

So you'd like to see the game descending into a series of rants when players are beaten by good shots. Players kicking the side hoardings, roaring and ranting? Sure, let them all follow this mentality and then they maybe they can win like Novak?

What he did last night was intended consciously or unconsciously to destabilise & distract Berrettini at a critical point. There are rules about racket abuse and hitting the net and so on, in that context - the umpire should have been able to give that game to Berrettini and moved onto a tie break. That's how you stop that sort of obnoxious carry on

Furze99 · 10-06-2021 12:58PM

OK.. but be careful of what you wish for!! Personally I think if there had been a crowd last night in that last game, that Djoks would have been given the bird for his carry on.

10-06-2021 01:24PM

Furze99 wrote: »

OK.. but be careful of what you wish for!! Personally I think if there had been a crowd last night in that last game, that Djoks would have been given the bird for his carry on.

the crowd were far more pissed off with not being able to stay to watch the game than anything Djokovic would have done

if I was a player I would surmise that the Nadal constant OCD stuff that goes on for an entire match would annoy more than an outburst or two

yerwanthere123 · 10-06-2021 02:47PM

First senior grand slam final for Pavlyuchenkova at age 29. Hopefully Sakkari wins the next semi. Wouldn't mind seeing Greece sweep the board this weekend, but that's probably a tad optimistic.

dominatinMC · 10-06-2021 03:45PM

Funnily enough, I'm expecting an upset tomorrow. Records are made to be broken, and I think Nadals perfect SF record will be broken. Nadals dips in form (which he's had throughout the clay court season) will be exploited by Djokovic. I also think Djokovic has been building everything towards this - practicing dropshots, improving serve, etc. and if he executes to perfection tomorrow, coupled with Nadals dips in form, I can see him taking it.

However, I've been fooled many times by Nadal before, and if he plays the entire match like he did in the final set and a half vs. Schwartzman, then he will win. But I just don't think he has it in him to play to that consistently high level for 5 sets anymore. We shall see. One thing is for sure, the longer it goes on, the more it favours Djokovic.

josip · 10-06-2021 03:47PM

Overheard a coach chatting with a 10yo in the club this afternoon.

[Coach] - Who do you think will win between Nadal and Djokovic?
[10yo] - There are only 3 things certain in life. You die, you pay tax and Nadal wins the French Open.

yerwanthere123 · 10-06-2021 03:51PM

josip wrote: »

Overheard a coach chatting with a 10yo in the club this afternoon.

[Coach] - Who do you think will win between Nadal and Djokovic?
[10yo] - There are only 3 things certain in life. You die, you pay tax and Nadal wins the French Open.

A ten year-old did not say that.

josip · 10-06-2021 03:54PM

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

A ten year-old did not say that.

I don't think anyone here thinks that the 10yo came up with it by themself.
It's pretty obvious that he was repeating something he heard at home.

Hector Savage · 10-06-2021 03:58PM

I remember doing probability there were certain things that were benchmarked as P(E) = 1.

Sun rising was one of them ....

I think they can add Nadal winning the FO as another.

French Open 2021

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