Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

PhoneMain wrote: »

Oh seatbelts are as dangerous as facemasks!!!!

Not saying that either, but to suggest not wearing a mask is the same as not wearing a seatbelt shows a profound ignorance on your part.

TomSweeney wrote: »

Not saying that either, but to suggest not wearing a mask is the same as not wearing a seatbelt shows a profound ignorance on your part.

So there's no point in measures to decrease risk? Gotcha

Unless you can educate me on the downsides of masks, happy to correct my "profound ignorance" as you think yourself.

PhoneMain wrote: »

I see TakeOffYourMask is trending on twitter. Maybe we can also do away with the tyranny that is seatbelts as well. They offer no benefits and are a social experiment run by Big Carma in order to test our resolve. The side effects of seat belts are well known, they decrease inspiratory effort, therefore decreasing tidal volume meaning you can breath in less oxygen and more importantly, they cause you to retain your own carbon dioxide which everyone knows can lead to irreversible brain damage! So lets try get TakeOffYourSeatbelt trending as well!

Judging by this post i would suggest you take some instructions on how to wear a seat belt properly!

TomSweeney wrote: »

If you think an unvaccinated population of children (and remember flu is more deadly to kids than covid) will cause any sort of spike in hospitalizations or serious illness you're deluded - and thats some facts for you.

Nothing to do with flu.

Your figure of over 80% fully vaccinated in Israel suggested they had reached herd immunity level.
I simply pointed out that 80% was for the adult population. Herd immunity is in relation to the total population, not just the adult population.
As a percentage of total population Israel`s fully vaccinated level is presently 57%.

JRant wrote: »

Hold on there Bosco. I said the decision to allow indoor dining in restaurants was made with economic interests at heart. It's a real boost for hoteliers after a terrible year. I've no idea why indoor dining elsewhere isn't open because they haven't shared that information with us. They may have looked at Nolan's "random number generator" model and said it's not safe to do so yet or they could have stuck a finger in the air. Either way, we don't know because this government have decided to treat the population like mushrooms.

...and I said if economics were the only consideration then indoor dining and pubs would have been opened up at the same time.
You stick with the finger in the air analogy if it makes you happy, but applying even a little bit of logic, I would be inclined to have more belief in it being due to risk assessment on potential numbers at the then level of vaccinations.

Extremely irritating
Uncomfortable
Look absolutely ridiculous
False sense of security
Completely against human nature
A lot of people dont wear them correctly
Still loads of car crashes despite people wearing them
Only been worn because its law
People still speed with them on
Extremely bad for the environment


You're talking about seat belts right?

PhoneMain wrote: »

Extremely irritating
Uncomfortable
Look absolutely ridiculous
False sense of security
Completely against human nature
A lot of people dont wear them correctly
Still loads of car crashes despite people wearing them
Only been worn because its law
People still speed with them on
Extremely bad for the environment


You're talking about seat belts right?

At least learn how to quote a post properly if your going to give a smart reply

gozunda wrote: »

OK you've gone way off base with a lot of that and therefore going to ignore a large proportion. The simplistic analogy re. banning cars etc really doesn't make any sense. So not going there either there as such discussion inevitably descends into why the selected analogy is / isn't comparable and so on ad infinitum.

But to be honest I've no idea why you've continued to drag up outdoor dining into what was a discussion regarding another posters comparison here to the US specifically Florida and Texas. The fact that you are now arguing for something which is now taking place makes any such discussion completely retrospective and I'm not particularly interested in rehashing old tired arguments about Ireland pandemic response being the worsest / slowest and we should do what everyone else is doing regardless of the fact that we have successfully managed to maintain one of the lowest case and death rate compared to nearest European neighbours.

But no I'm not suggesting a choice of only extremes - which if you read my last comment correctly should be abundantly clear. But no matter.

But you are actually more than suggesting an extreme, you're lauding the results of the Irish approach that has been and continues to be one of the most extreme in western nations. Ireland is the other extreme to Florida in how it has dealt with reopening.

You don't want to talk about outdoor dining because there is simply no credible justification for the extreme Irish approach that was taken to it, though a few posts ago there was claims the Irish climate was a justification

BlaktainPicard wrote: »

15 before 10 PM.

Then Covid get's a little weak so between 10pm and 1am only 6 people.

After 1am everyone needs to go home, and if they don't you are all granny killers and worse than drink drivers ....


Just have your party and invite as many people as you want, everyone more or less will be jabbed by then.

Whatever you do, don't have it on the weekend of a bank holiday too, its most deadly then.

PTH2009 wrote: »

Sure we all know the virus done a deal with Hoteliers

It agreed to stay out of there indoor bars but needs another month before it will decide to stay out of the non hotel bars/pubs

This witty observation got old in May. May 2020.

Deleted User wrote: »

It might shock you to learn that from the reopening indoor dining last summer the previous downward tend ended and a 20 day doubling rate started and continued right through to level 5 restrictions being introduced in October.

Now the level to which the reintroduction contributed to the increase versus other measures is not clear, however, 20 day doubling is not negligible

20 day doubling is not negligible, but no such thing happened after indoor dining opened. It will probably not shock anyone that yet again that's an outright lie.

When indoor hospitality reopened at the end of June cases were about 16 per day. There was no downward trend, there was a straight horizontal line.
3 weeks later, there was still a stable horizontal line with about 18-20 cases per day.
But in the meantime the number of tests being conducted had increased 250% which accounts for the additional cases - the positive rate actually dropped in the interim, and continued to do so.

There was a spike in the 7-day positive rate around the August bank holiday, after which there was a steady decrease for the remainder of August, except for another blip at the end.

And then schools opened, and that was the end of that.
Every measure started an uphill trend that continued until the end of October, just before level 5 kicked in.

You can lie about the figures all you want, but they're publicly available and quite easy to see.

Positive rate when hospitality opened: 0.5
Positive rate three weeks later: 0.2
Peak around August bank holiday: 1.8
When schools opened: 1.2 (eight weeks after hospitality opened)
Three weeks after that: 2.3 (there's your 20 day doubling - due to school, not hospitality)
Peak seven weeks after school open: 7.3

gozunda wrote: »

Unfortunately being able to prove or disprove that claim in isolation with regard to casual dining in that period isnt possible and that primarily due to the known delay between infection and people being diagnosed with Covid.

Of course it's possible. Most people start showing symptoms after 4/5 days. Assume a couple of days after that to get a test and for the results to filter through to the official figures, and you'll start seeing the effects of a change about a week later. If your using a 14-day average as your metric for comparison, you'll have a full set of "post" data about 3 weeks after the change.
That's if there isn't any other major change in the same period, which there wasn't after hospitality reopened. Which is irrelevant anyway, since there wasn't any major increase anyway.

Also, your claim didn't stop our Minister for Health calling the EY report "unambiguous evidence" that pubs outside Dublin being open for two weeks was major covid contributor. Despite the report itself citing numerous other potential contributing factors.

What we do know is that a slow rise in cases persisted from early June to late August, in 2020 as cases increased from 25,062 to 28,758.

We certainly don't know that, can you link to sources please? They don't match the figures on the Covid data portal.
Besides, that's also another blatant manipulation of figures.

- First off, indoor dining opened at the end of June, so including cases during June is just a deliberate attempt to boost the increase.

- Secondly, you're deliberately attempting to frame that as a large increase. That increase, over the 3-month period you're using for some reason, works out at just 40 cases per day.

- Third, you're completely ignoring the massive increase in the number of tests conducted, and thus deliberately comparing apples with oranges. In the first week of June there were 18,000 tests. In the last week of August there were 62,000 tests. Comparing raw case numbers between the start and end of a long period, when you're doing over three times as many tests at the end, isn't a valid measure of anything. You've no idea how many additional cases you would have found at the start if you'd done the same number of tests. Comparing what percentage of people tested positive is the only realistic way of comparing the two. And the positive rate was lower at the end of August than the start of June.

Many cases were Identified as community spread and a proportion those were believed to be driven by transmissions from people catching the virus where local incidence rates were high via increasing socialising in a range of social settings, including bars and restaurants

The vast majority of our cases were identified as community transmission because the man in charge of epidemiological modelling dismissed proper contact tracing as an "academic exercise", and we didn't do any. We have zero idea how those cases occurred. Given that telling the public they didn't have a clue what was happening wasn't politically acceptable, picking something that sounded plausible was their only option.

I'll admit, I'm surprised, it sounded plausible to me. But the figures just don't bear it out. Yet that doesn't stop cheerleaders for the government total mismanagement of the pandemic from deliberately distorting the data to try to prove otherwise.

GT89 wrote: »

But it's true there is no reasonable explanation to allow hotels to open their indoor dining and bar areas and leave normal pubs and restauants outdoor only.

You're wasting your time, the same arguement has been going backwards and forwards every few days. On one hand you have those that believe everything the government do is brilliant risk management, on the other you have those who question the charade and nonsensical approach to many of the guidelines. Various posters go around and around in circles trying to out do each other and eventually both go their seperate ways, with neither conceding any ground. I don't know if im tired from covid or from reading covid threads.