Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

NIAC Fanboy · 06-06-2021 11:45AM

Penfailed wrote: »

If I remember correctly, it was to spread out the number of people requiring hospitalisation over a longer period of time, so that the health service could cope.

You do remember correctly, this is what An Taoiseach said at the time.

"The number of people who have Covid-19 will continue to rise every day, every week, for a couple of weeks. But the objective in a couple of weeks time is to flatten the curve then so that we don't have a single spike at the same time that would overwhelm the health service.

acequion · 06-06-2021 11:50AM

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

You do remember correctly, this is what An Taoiseach said at the time.

"The number of people who have Covid-19 will continue to rise every day, every week, for a couple of weeks. But the objective in a couple of weeks time is to flatten the curve then so that we don't have a single spike at the same time that would overwhelm the health service.

It's been so long since "flatten the curve" and there have been so many other gems in the meantime that you actually would get mixed up. The latest is "hold firm." There is no doubt whatsoever that there are some in powerful circles who don't want this to end. Donnelly wanted to extend the emergency legislation "indefinitely," thankfully he only got to February 2022 and I say "only" with irony.

NIAC Fanboy · 06-06-2021 11:51AM

gozunda wrote: »

Lol. No Peter Lunn is not some just 'civil servant against your own expertise and superior knowledge

That would be Professor Peter Lunn of the Economic and Social Research Institute btw

But if you disagree that "Covid case numbers reported daily remain at elevated levels" take it up with him.

One of these clowns

The ESRI failed to forecast the financial collapse in 2008, economist John FitzGerald told the Oireachtas Banking Inquiry today.

“We made a call that Ireland would probably escape it and we were totally wrong,” Mr FitzGerald said

M_Murphy57 · 06-06-2021 11:52AM

acequion wrote: »

It's been so long since "flatten the curve" and there have been so many other gems in the meantime that you actually would get mixed up. The latest is "hold firm." There is no doubt whatsoever that there are some in powerful circles who don't want this to end. Donnelly wanted to extend the emergency legislation "indefinitely," thankfully he only got to February 2022 and I say "only" with irony.

He needs those powers because "this is a totally new virus". Dont forget that little gem 12 months in.

gozunda · 06-06-2021 11:53AM

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

We built up fack all resource.

The HSE plan consisted of:
Frightening us all into staying away from the hospitals in January. Cancelling every procedure possible to free up beds. Pay through the nose for private beds.

Ah Fanboy - you're showing up your lack of knowledge badly there

As to resources - you may have missed it but yes hospitals here increased capacity with up to a 1700 covid patients being dealt in dedicated covid wards and icu.

A major redeployment of existing healtcare services towards the treatment and management of covid patients and increased real-time ICU admissions was undertaken

And yes we saw a rise in ICU capacity. Available data shows the baseline capacity in ICU increased up to 280 up from 255 in March / April 2020. Afaik the surge capacity for ICU beds reached approx 350.

It also has to be understood that ICU capacity is not just beds - but also fully trained and available clinical staff, clinical space, clinical equipment, PPE, oxygen supply and Hospital / Hospital Group / HSE system supports. And yes more ventilators were bought although less invasive oxygen support was increasingly used where possible.

But yeah it was all about "Frightening us all into staying away from the hospitals in January" :rolleyes:

Personaly I've been very critical of the HSE over the years but - they played a blinder over the last year year and a half and fair play to them. And yes we know that other essential services were reduced and curtailed for a number of reasons

NIAC Fanboy · 06-06-2021 11:54AM

acequion wrote: »

It's been so long since "flatten the curve" and there have been so many other gems in the meantime that you actually would get mixed up. The latest is "hold firm." There is no doubt whatsoever that there are some in powerful circles who don't want this to end. Donnelly wanted to extend the emergency legislation "indefinitely," thankfully he only got to February 2022 and I say "only" with irony.

What's laughable is the brigade on here who swallow each and every episode hook line and sinker and defend every decision and action to the hilt, never once challenging anything.

NIAC Fanboy · 06-06-2021 11:56AM

gozunda wrote: »

Ah Fanboy - you're showing up your lack of knowledge badly there

As to resources - you may have missed it but yes hospitals here increased capacity with up to a 1700 covid patients being dealt in dedicated covid wards and icu.

A major redeployment of existing healtcare services towards the treatment and management of covid patients and increased real-time ICU admissions was undertaken

And yes we saw a rise in ICU capacity. Available data shows the baseline capacity in ICU increased up to 280 up from 255 in March / April 2020. Afaik the surge capacity for ICU beds reached approx 350.

It also has to be understood that ICU capacity is not just beds - but also fully trained and available clinical staff, clinical space, clinical equipment, PPE, oxygen supply and Hospital / Hospital Group / HSE system supports. And yes more ventilators were bought although less invasive oxygen support was increasingly used where possible.

But yeah it was all about "Frightening us all into staying away from the hospitals in January" :rolleyes:

Personaly I've been very critical of the HSE over the years but - they played a blinder over the last year year and a half and fair play to them. And yes we know that other essential services were reduced and curtailed for a number of reasons

Where are all the new hospitals with these 1700 beds.

None. They robbed them off other services.

gozunda · 06-06-2021 11:57AM

Whatsisname wrote: »

So over the last few months we’ve now had one poster say we were never told to stay at home, one poster said this was never about protecting the vulnerable and now another says this was never about protecting hospitals from being overwhelmed. We’re also constantly told by another that you don’t measure pandemics in deaths.

So what the hell is it all about then?

I think its more correct to say that the simplified screaming of some claiming that we were all locked up forever, that it's only de vulnerable who need protecting and sure our hospitals were never overrun - so there's no problem with covid at all - simply don't hold up to scrutiny.

But hey whatever

NIAC Fanboy · 06-06-2021 11:58AM

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

He needs those powers because "this is a totally new virus". Dont forget that little gem 12 months in.

And now we have the delta virus and its "explosive multiplier effect"

normanoffside · 06-06-2021 11:58AM

This is quite a crazy story from the golf in the states.
Golfer holding a 6 shot lead at the end of the third round is told he has to withdraw as he has just tested positive for Covid.

https://twitter.com/TJEckertKTUL/status/1401304515572273155

_Kaiser_ · 06-06-2021 11:58AM

Graham wrote: »

Covid is the issue, it's still the issue although I'd absolutely agree hospitalisation figures are vastly improved.

We've all had over a year of this, the risks decrease with every week as more people get vaccinated.

Probably sensible not to put it all at risk because a few muppets can't wait another couple of weeks to drink in a beer garden/pub.

Ah would you stop.

Again.... those few who actually were/are at any possible significant risk have almost entirely been vaccinated now. We're now vaccinating healthy people in their 40s.

The lower the age, the smaller the risk becomes again, and even for those outliers there are special cohorts (group 7 for example) that have/are being vaccinated. If you're in that group you'll know (or certainly should!) to take additional precautions generally anyway - even pre-Covid.

So what exactly are we putting at risk by dropping contradictory and pointless restrictions in the above context? Restrictions that now only seem to be providing some with a new platform for moralising and grandstanding about younger people living their lives.

Now to clarify - because I'm sure you'll pick out only one point from everything I've just said as per usual - I absolutely agree that antisocial behaviour should be clamped down on severely and those responsible identified and prosecuted (as they should be/have before Covid), but when you tell people to "have an outdoor summer" you don't get to complain when they do exactly that and gather with their friends for a few drinks on the streets (as they would previously have in pubs). Pissing on the street isn't acceptable either, but if you provide no facilities then what do you expect?

Bottom line. Covid as a significant risk to public health is done. It was arguably done a year ago when we identified who was ACTUALLY at risk and we should have focussed our efforts on them, rather than destroying the economy, employment, creating mental and other physical health issues, and creating social division in a culture already polarised by soaking up Americanised social media politicking like a sponge.

I think the biggest fear of some is losing that platform they've had to watch, comment, begrudge and envy others (ie: the national sport - forget GAA), and simultaneously show how good, obedient and "on message" they themselves are as the country slowly (FAR too slowly!) returns to normal.

NIAC Fanboy · 06-06-2021 12:01PM

gozunda wrote: »

that it's only de vulnerable who need protecting

So let's fact check that against what An Taoiseach said at the time

At a certain point… we will advise the elderly and people who have a long-term illness to stay at home for several weeks. We are putting in place the systems to ensure that if you are one of them, you will have food, supplies and are checked on. We call this ‘cocooning’ and it will save many lives… particularly the most vulnerable… the most precious in our society.It’s going to be very difficult to stay apart from our loved ones. Most grandparents just want to give their grandkids a hug and a kiss – but as hard as this is… we need to keep our physical distance to stop the virus.

gozunda · 06-06-2021 12:08PM

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

You do remember correctly, this is what An Taoiseach said at the time.

"The number of people who have Covid-19 will continue to rise every day, every week, for a couple of weeks. But the objective in a couple of weeks time is to flatten the curve then so that we don't have a single spike at the same time that would overwhelm the health service.

.

Fanboy - there's you agreeing with Varadkar

But not "over a longer period of time" as was suggested?

But you do mean the underlying objective even back then was to keep the infection rate down ie " flatten the curve"? Fair enough.

Micky 32 · 06-06-2021 12:09PM

gozunda wrote: »

The US media are no less click friendly with scarey media stories.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/05/17/coronavirus-variant-b-1-167-first-seen-india-now-us-what-know/5099593001/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-02/biden-to-begin-vaccine-donations-abroad-as-variant-threat-looms

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/02/delta-variant-first-found-in-india-spreads-to-62-countries-hot-spots-form-in-asia-and-africa-who-says-.html

That some read these media stories and seem to want to think its all a big conspiracy is perhaps a concern in its own right .

But yes the US do seem to have made progress however the rate of vaccination hesitatincy seems to a problem for the longer term. The Biden Administration has set a goal of 70% of all U.S. adults receiving at least one vaccine shot by July 4. But the overall goal of reaching that goal or indeed herd immunity could now be out of reach

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/06/04/31-of-americans-still-hesitant-about-covid-19-vaccine-poll-finds---heres-how-that-measures-up-against-other-countries/

Good to see it’s not all doom and gloom reporting in the USA about the Delta variant. It’s been there quite a while now.

“”It's impossible to know, but given the high rate of vaccination here, it seems unlikely to replace the current dominant B.1.1.7 strain. With nearly 47% of people in the United States at least partially vaccinated, it's going to be more difficult for a new strain to take over. "We have high levels of community immunization, so even though it's here, it's got less room to grow," said Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease specialist at the University of California, San Francisco.“”

gozunda · 06-06-2021 12:12PM

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

So let's fact check that against what An Taoiseach said at the time

At a certain point… we will advise the elderly and people who have a long-term illness to stay at home for several weeks. We are putting in place the systems to ensure that if you are one of them, you will have food, supplies and are checked on. We call this ‘cocooning’ and it will save many lives… particularly the most vulnerable… the most precious in our society.It’s going to be very difficult to stay apart from our loved ones. Most grandparents just want to give their grandkids a hug and a kiss – but as hard as this is… we need to keep our physical distance to stop the virus.

Lol. How does that meet with you claiming "one poster said this was never about protecting the vulnerable" as opposed to those who claim its only about protecting the vulnerable and sur we can all open up everything because they are all protected or wtte?

And thats the big danger of taking headlines out of context.

gozunda · 06-06-2021 12:18PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Good to see it’s not all doom and gloom reporting in the USA about the Delta variant. It’s been there quite a while now.

“”It's impossible to know, but given the high rate of vaccination here, it seems unlikely to replace the current dominant B.1.1.7 strain. With nearly 47% of people in the United States at least partially vaccinated, it's going to be more difficult for a new strain to take over. "We have high levels of community immunization, so even though it's here, it's got less room to grow," said Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease specialist at the University of California, San Francisco.“”

Snap! Not all "doom and gloom" here either. RTE and Nphet no less :eek:

The Indian variant was categorised as a variant of concern on 10 May, in line with WHO guidance. This categorisation also means more public health resources will be assigned to the investigation of potential cases.

"I’m hopeful that the enhanced public health measures – now that it’s a variant of concern – will successfully control it," Dr De Gascun told Prime Time.

"They seem to have done so with the other variants of concern," he said. "We’re going to monitor the S-gene Target Failure rate more regularly as well, so we have more real time data."

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2021/0520/1222826-covid-indian-variant-ireland/

Micky 32 · 06-06-2021 12:26PM

gozunda wrote: »

Snap! Not all "doom and gloom" here either. RTE no less :eek:

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2021/0520/1222826-covid-indian-variant-ireland/

I didn’t see anything mentioned in the USA about “ enhanced public measures” to deal with it though

Maybe RTE worded it wrong.

gozunda · 06-06-2021 12:38PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

I didn’t see anything mentioned in the USA about “ enhanced public measures” to deal with it though Maybe RTE worded it wrong.

Seems to be a issue that's certainly been mentioned in the USA or at least the lossening of "anti pandemic measures". But maybe its just they have a higher percentage of their population vaccinated or something?

A just-released U.K. study found the Pfizer Inc.-BioNTech SE vaccine was “highly effective” against a form of the B.1.617 variant two weeks after the second dose, affirming preliminary data from Phase 3 clinical trials. Still, the mutation has arrived in the U.S. at a time when anti-pandemic measures are loosening and around 60% of the population isn’t yet fully vaccinated.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-23/cdc-ramps-up-research-on-highly-contagious-variant-from-india

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Del Griffith · 06-06-2021 12:51PM

gozunda wrote: »

No that's the thing. Keep infection rates down as we did and we had fewer people requiring hospitalisation in the first place. That can be seen in our overall low case numbers to date

But even when the **** hit the fan and we had over 100 000 cases in January 2021 - and the numbers needing hospital care rose dramatically - the hospitals were able to provide proper levels of care exactly because we had kept numbers low and built up the necessary resource base treat those who needed care.

Prevention as a treatment makes sense tbh .

Right so completely contrary to your previous post, it was in fact touted to us as a temporary measure to allow the abysmal health care system not to become over run.

The question then is why is Ireland still restricted now?

Prominent_Dawg · 06-06-2021 12:58PM

Is there currently any restrictions when traveling to and from the north?

Micky 32 · 06-06-2021 01:00PM

gozunda wrote: »

Seems to be a issue that's certainly been mentioned or at least the lossening of "anti pandemic measures". But maybe its just they have a higher percentage of their population vaccinated or something?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-23/cdc-ramps-up-research-on-highly-contagious-variant-from-india

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes in the UsA the experts aren’t too concerned about the Indian variant overall and are confident the vaccines are effective against it and have said so unlike our irish media constantly reporting boloxogy headlines like “ pfizer recipients have lower antibodies targeting indian variant”.

You certainly get a better positive sense of reporting in the USA overall i find. Cases have plummeted over there despite the “ absolute beast” of the Delta variant.

NIAC Fanboy · 06-06-2021 01:01PM

gozunda wrote: »

.

Jaysus Fanboy - there's you agreeing with Varadkar

But not "over a longer period of time" as was suggested?

But you do mean the underlying objective even back then was to keep the infection rate down ie " flatten the curve"? Fair enough.

Are you going to tell us where the extra 1700 beds came from?

I'd say robbed off other services and paid through the nose from private hospitals.

NIAC Fanboy · 06-06-2021 01:02PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Yes in the UsA the experts aren’t too concerned about the Indian variant overall and are confident the vaccines are effective against it and have said so unlike our irish media constantly reporting boloxogy headlines like “ pfizer recipients have lower antibodies targeting indian variant”.

You certainly get a better positive sense of reporting in the USA overall i find.

But let's not forget our plan is "Ambitious" according to herr Tony.

hynesie08 · 06-06-2021 01:05PM

Prominent_Dawg wrote: »

Is there currently any restrictions when traveling to and from the north?

The only barrier is a language one.

Del Griffith · 06-06-2021 01:12PM

These next two weeks are critical

Penfailed · 06-06-2021 01:19PM

gozunda wrote: »

But no its not about "danger of overwhelming hospitals " and never has been

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

You do remember correctly, this is what An Taoiseach said at the time.

"The number of people who have Covid-19 will continue to rise every day, every week, for a couple of weeks. But the objective in a couple of weeks time is to flatten the curve then so that we don't have a single spike at the same time that would overwhelm the health service.

There ye are now.

gozunda · 06-06-2021 01:21PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

Right so completely contrary to your previous post, it was in fact touted to us as a temporary measure to allow the abysmal health care system not to become over run.

The question then is why is Ireland still restricted now?

Not sure how you figure that out Del.

But nope. Its a pandemic. All the stops were pulled out to keep the infection rate low and as well as that to provide resources for those that did get ill.

And thats what has been done. Don't like that?

And you do know a whole load of restrictions have been rolled back and more to come and all that whilst we roll out the biggest vaccination programme in the history of the state?

But you know all that already I reckon even if you don't like to admit it.

Buy hey whatever

Penfailed · 06-06-2021 01:24PM

Prominent_Dawg wrote: »

Is there currently any restrictions when traveling to and from the north?

No.

gozunda · 06-06-2021 01:27PM

Penfailed wrote: »

There ye are now.

See above. Trouble with taking stuff out of context and simplifying it is just that. Varadkars comments in that article explicitly refer to avoiding a spike for a "couple of weeks" but more importantly he refer to flattening the curve ie keeping infection down which is what has been the primary aim right up to now. But nooo its only about "hospitals been overwhelmed" :rolleyes:

Penfailed · 06-06-2021 01:36PM

gozunda wrote: »

See above. Trouble with taking stuff out of context and simplifying it is just that. Varadkars comments in that article explicitly refer to avoiding a spike for a "couple of weeks" but more importantly he refer to flattening the curve ie keeping infection down which is what has been the primary aim right up to now. But nooo its only about "hospitals been overwhelmed" :rolleyes:

Taking stuff out of context? You explicitly said -

gozunda wrote: »

But no its not about "danger of overwhelming hospitals " and never has been

Which is it? 'Never has been' or 'couple of weeks'?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings