parkrun, lap two

robinph · 28-04-2021 3:50pm

...and now a bunch of events across England have been confirmed as having permission to restart from 5th June, which includes a few of the ones near me. Yay!

No guarantee that 5th June will be the date yet as would need a higher percentage to get the go ahead across England. Just 2 out of the 5'ish (depending on where you draw the line for how far people might travel) in my city have the green light so far and they are the 2 smallest events so might be an issue with numbers. But they are also the two events that people are least likey to travel to because mud/ hills/ mud & hills. But a great response after just 24 hours since permission was even asked for.

Great sign that people are confident with the parkrun framework document and the vaccination/ case rates that they will give permissions so quickly.

robinph · 09-05-2021 8:54am

Have my junior kitted out and ready to go, they remembered some tiny person running gear we'd dressed them in a year and a half ago which is now a bit snug but insisted on putting it on.

Have managed to talk a few school friends into parkrun despite it not existing for most of their time at school whilst we've known the parents so hopefully a few of them turn up.

I'm getting a bit bit excited you may notice, even though I don't get to run.

Will be interesting to see how many turn up despite the reduced age group.

robinph · 09-05-2021 4:02pm

Totally awesome to see the kids back this morning. Was a last minute panic for the marshals as the kit had all disappeared since last week, which was then found in another store room, which was then found to be locked and nobody knew who had the key... But they gained entry somehow and things were back on.

Was a bit of nervousness beforehand about how many people would turn up, how many dog walkers there would be as they would no longer be used to the juniors being there each week. Few more marshals than normal, probably a relatively normal number of participants, but it looked less as they were all smaller ones than previous with the new temporary age range.

We had a couple of new parkrunners attending as our kids school friends joined and all went running off into the distance delighted with themselves* and some very proud parents and kids at the end, and very happy marshals just glad to be out marshaling again.

* Less said about my own junior parkrunners participation the better, but they did one lap of the two then screamed at me for 40 minutes while sat in a muddy puddle about not having got a finish token and how the world wasn't fair. A Calipo eventually enabled us to leave after further negotiations.

opus · 10-05-2021 4:01pm

Interesting to see all the events on a map, there are a lot of them for sure in England.

Current landowner permissions

Red = No
Grey = No answer
Orange = Yes

robinph · 10-05-2021 4:11pm

Was having a glance at that map a few minutes ago myself. Can certainly see some clusters of areas with loads of parkruns and no permissions yet... But I know of at least two in my small neck of the woods which have got permission since that map was last updated, one of which hasn't yet been tweeted about with a humorous gif by HQ either. So there must be quite a number more waiting in the wings for official announcements... Hopefully.

robinph · 10-05-2021 4:13pm

The red on that map isn't "no" actually, it's events which have been cancelled and goes back several years. Don't think a list of refused permission has been made regarding the current restart plans.

opus · 10-05-2021 4:18pm

Oops didn't spot that nuance.

JimmyAlfonso · 10-05-2021 7:11pm

Good to see events starting back up in other regions. Any thoughts on when we will return in the Republic? GAA back on 7th June

FinnC · 10-05-2021 7:14pm

JimmyAlfonso wrote: »

Good to see events starting back up in other regions. Any thoughts on when we will return in the Republic? GAA back on 7th June

GAA is already back .

JimmyAlfonso · 10-05-2021 8:36pm

Club matches back? I'm not an intercounty parkrunner either!

Club training is still restricted to pods at present.

robinph · 13-05-2021 10:35am

robinph wrote: »

22nd May has now been confirmed for USA parkruns to be permitted to return, depending on local state requirements. Very unlikely to be all of them, but really doesn't matter for any US parkruns if they return on different dates as nobody is touring like in the UK.

... And whilst several US parkruns are confirmed for the 22nd May, the one event which I had a mild influence in inspiring through getting family involved in visits to the UK has now been confirmed for the 29th.

They had permission from the local parks department, but needed a change to the state rules as they were falling under the rules covering a back yard BBQ, now they have managed to get things changed so they fall under the rules for an amusement park instead so can restart. Weird rules, but I should just have enough weeks left to complete my 50th virtual parkrun with them.

Still need a lot more England events to get permission for the June restart to happen.

Pawwed Rig · 13-05-2021 10:58am

Any word on junior parkrun? GAA and scouts are back as is school so I don't see any reason why parkrun cannot go ahead?

robinph · 13-05-2021 11:18am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Any word on junior parkrun? GAA and scouts are back as is school so I don't see any reason why parkrun cannot go ahead?

I've not seen any noises from parkrun HQ in relation to Ireland yet, other than they latest blog post did claim that despite not hearing anything about other territories they were working on it, honest 'guv.

I guess it is this line with is preventing the likes of parkrun "Outdoor sports training can start again in pods of up to 15." but GAA and team sports can get around by saying each team is a separate pod.

In the English restrictions it is still a limit of 6 people or 2 families for meeting outside for sport or socially, but the bit that enables parkrun to go ahead is that "organised sport" is exempt from all restrictions, and the definition of what constitutes organised sport is left very vague.

opus · 13-05-2021 11:30am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Any word on junior parkrun? GAA and scouts are back as is school so I don't see any reason why parkrun cannot go ahead?

From looking at this Roadmap for Reopening Society & Business doc, it would suggest early Aug for a possible parkrun resumption, no idea if they will separate junior & 5k events though.

Just read that doc again & realised it's from last year

Pawwed Rig · 13-05-2021 11:34am

robinph wrote: »

I guess it is this line with is preventing the likes of parkrun "Outdoor sports training can start again in pods of up to 15." but GAA and team sports can get around by saying each team is a separate pod.

At our scouts the other night the different troops (ie pods) were rolling around on the ground wrestling each other. I am not sure that this is what the regulations on pods had in mind :pac:

average_runner · 13-05-2021 4:49pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Any word on junior parkrun? GAA and scouts are back as is school so I don't see any reason why parkrun cannot go ahead?

I think the difference with other sports they have the contact tracing. That isn't there for junior parkrun. Even though risk is low outside.

robinph · 14-05-2021 5:35pm

juniors return to NI from 23rd May:

https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2021/05/14/uk-update-14-may/

Tombo2001 · 17-05-2021 10:46am

A lot of press coverage in the UK this weekend about Park Run not returning, facing difficulties.

It seems the issue is that the parks wont sanction it.

This affects a lot of sports - that lockdown might be ending, but a lot of venues will decide they dont want to hold events any more nonetheless.....

Would be annoying if it was ok to play full contact GAA in a public park, but not allow a park run.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/17/great-british-farce-if-parkrun-does-not-return-but-clubs-and-casinos-do

robinph · 17-05-2021 11:02am

There is a number of venues which have cancelled, private park held by a trust which thinks it can get more money from charging for it's own weekly 5km event/ university where the number are quite high and worried about damage to playing fields, couple of others that have been cancelled for unknown reasons.

No problem with those events being withdrawn (although the private trust with the park thinking they can make money from a weekly 5km really doesn't understand what they are trying to do) and it was inevitable that there would be a few events at this point which would end up being cancelled. These events would have probably been cancelled at some point over the last year or so anyway, just the pandemic close down brought thigs forward a bit and gave an easy opportunity to make a decision.

The likes of local authorities having such varying ranges of time scales and requirements for parkrun to get permission to restart what they were previously doing isn't on though. These are park spaces that are owned by the public and the local councils just look after them for the population. Unless there is some really good reason for the previous permission to be withdrawn (works being done in the park, it's currently being used as a testing/ vaccination centre/ there are now 5 thousand dog walkers in the park at 9am on a Saturday morning) then it should just be a case of parkrun restarting. Obviously permission is still needed from private landowners, but most of them seem to be giving the permission, or cancelling the event totally. It's the local authorities which are delaying things or coming up with stupid requests on what they want from parkrun to just start doing what they have always done.

The stuff about isolation tents and the temperature of volunteers bibs being washed at is just ridiculous.

The Black Oil · 20-05-2021 8:53am

Just heard Sebastian Coe on Radio 4 saying that parkrun was caught up in a 'bureaucratic swap' and being asked to jump through hoops that aren't being applied to other activities.

https://twitter.com/sebcoe/status/1395053288911945745

robinph · 20-05-2021 1:24pm

More government ministers and shadow ministers brining it up in Parliament today and saying they are going to be applying more pressure on local authorities, London mayor getting involved as well.

Potential for the start to get pushed back a week in England if there is enough publicity this weekend. Hoping it doesn't get delayed until the 26th though as that then risks more delays as not all restrictions will be lifted on that date and some venues, such as Bushy Park in London have said "when all restrictions lifted" which is just constantly kicking the can further down the road.

Going to try a different juniors event ourselves this weekend and head to a new one in Wales, I think I'm allowed over the border.

aquinn · 21-05-2021 9:58am

According to the Guardian this morning the return of parkun in England has been pushed back until the end of next month.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/21/parkrun-return-england-delayed-venues-reluctant-reopen

Murph_D · 21-05-2021 2:11pm

Once again, parkrun brass underestimating the extent to which the event is reliant on on the partnerships forged between local authorities, venues and event teams, as much as the top-down organisation between parkrun and parkrunners.

peter kern · 21-05-2021 4:24pm

i would say many authorities are underestimating what a positive impact park runs can have in reducing long term costs in for the NHS in this case .
i guess its an fair assumption that some 150 000 runner in the uk would prob not run without those parkruns and the saving for the NHS will likely be millions and milllions every year in mental health and pysical health. ie if i was the health secratary and get free support to keep my costs down i would make sure to make sure that authorities dont create more red tape than needed. i struggle to think of anything that would reduce health costs more than park run for the given cost. of course open to corrections.
ie governments have more to lose financially than parkrun.
of course many authorities dont understand that.
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-017-4620-1 etc etc

robinph · 21-05-2021 5:04pm

From listening to the latest Free Weekly Timed podcast it seemed like they had significant movement in the type of responses they were getting on Wednesday and Thursday, despite parkrun knowing by that point that the 5th wasn't going to happen, and local authorities were suddenly asking how they could make parkrun return rather than questions about washing volunteer bibs and isolation tents.

robinph · 21-05-2021 5:16pm

Potential for Northern Ireland events from the 26th June:

https://twitter.com/parkrunUK/status/1395742267042930695?s=19

robinph · 22-05-2021 5:42pm

parkrun returned in the US today, and Anthony Fauci went along to check it out.

https://twitter.com/s_parkrun/status/1396129251305345026?s=19

The volunteer team had encountered him and his Secret Service detail along the route last week when they were doing their course check and had a quick chat with him about parkrun, so he returned again this week.

opus · 26-05-2021 11:04am

Some nuggests of hope in this.

For Written Answer on : 18/05/2021
Question Number(s): 351 Question Reference(s): 26472/21
Department: Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Asked by: Pa Daly T.D.
______________________________________________
QUESTION
To ask the Minister for Tourism; Culture; Arts; Gaeltacht; Sport and Media if she will engage with representatives of park runs (details supplied) on the holding of trial events given the inclusive nature of the events as outlined. (Details Supplied) Parkrun is a voluntary community led activity and 12,000 participate weekly.Annually approx 80,000 people in Ireland make 650,000 runs or walks.7% of participants have a disability, 17% are from the lowest socio economic percentile and 50% are women. Studies show covid19 transmission risks at such events are minimal.
REPLY
I am open to meeting representatives of Parkrun. The return of parkruns is fundamentally concerned with the removal of the current restrictions on the size of outdoor public gatherings. In recognition of the improving epidemiological situation, the Government announced a roadmap on 29 April for the gradual lifting of some restrictions over May and June, with a particular focus on allowing more outdoor activities. A range of measures are now being eased, with a further easing of measures in June subject to the epidemiological situation at the time. Further detail is available on Gov.ie:
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/0bd80-new-public-health-measures-announced-the-path-ahead/.
NPHET has advised that this phased plan for the months of May and June can be considered low to medium risk. However, they also advise that a faster reopening over these months would be very high risk. A number of higher-risk activities including outdoor mass gatherings and events (such as parkruns) are not part of the reopening plans for May and June, but they will be subject to further consideration towards the end of June with a view to recommencing these activities as we move through the summer.
I understand from my colleague, the Minister for Health, that there continues to be regular contact with parkrun organisers and detailed discussions regarding a return of parkrun events will commence once Government has taken decisions in relation to the re-introduction of outdoor mass participation events.
Significant progress has been made on suppressing the virus over recent months due to the huge effort of people across the country. By working together, we have saved lives and limited the impact of the disease on society in Ireland. We all must continue to do everything possible to continue to avoid the virus spreading and to support the safe reopening of activities over the coming months.

echancrure · 26-05-2021 7:33pm

"...higher-risk activities including outdoor mass gatherings and events (such as parkruns)..."

Parkruns are higher risks? What data is this based on?

Data from Japan I seem to recall indicate a very low risk for running events (certainly lower any indoor activity)

jimmii · 27-05-2021 8:10pm

The new pink hi-vis have arrived up here although sounds like July 3rd is the planned date for Scotland now which feels ages away.

rainbow kirby · 27-05-2021 11:47pm

Volunteering at South Manchester juniors this weekend. My 5 year old son has run there with me the last couple of weeks and will be elsewhere with his dad this weekend.

Gael23 · 29-05-2021 5:57am

Was their anything in yesterday’s announcement about parkrun type events?

Jim_Hodge · 04-06-2021 9:29pm

Any indication as to when Parkruns in Ireland will be back?
I've a wife here doing her nut with not being able to go for her Saturday 5k.

Murph_D · 04-06-2021 10:03pm

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Any indication as to when Parkruns in Ireland will be back?
I've a wife here doing her nut with not being able to go for her Saturday 5k.

None yet. The parks are still open though - I’ve done many 5ks on my local parkrun course over the past year, and many more in other places.

Jim_Hodge · 04-06-2021 10:27pm

Murph_D wrote: »

None yet. The parks are still open though - I’ve done many 5ks on my local parkrun course over the past year, and many more in other places.

My wife found it a great mental health benefit with the great comradery. She's really a walker and can walk or run anywhere any time. It's the social aspect and the volunteering she misses.

diceyreilly · 04-06-2021 11:05pm

Ive gone for a 5k or 10k every weekend since its been off. But its just not the same.
You just get the feeling when the government says sports will be back they mean matches. Parkrun wouldn’t have crossed their minds.

Be a fair while yet I’d say

Murph_D · 05-06-2021 1:17am

It’s easy to get disillusioned. We all miss parkrun. I’ve done about 150 of them, and volunteered at about 80. Maybe more. It will be back at the right time, of that I’m very confident.

Pawwed Rig · 05-06-2021 8:50am

Same as that. My running times are much slower than they were in early 2020 and I have not done a high tempo run since then. Parkrun was always my fast* run in the week and I struggle to go faster without the buzz of the crowd. I feel like I am just ticking over at the moment on the solo slogs on the beach.
Also it is infuriating that I have been stuck on 2 runs off a nice round semi milestone for so long. My OCD is in overdrive :pac:

*relatively

Mar Azul · 05-06-2021 3:16pm

Murph_D wrote: »

It’s easy to get disillusioned. We all miss parkrun. I’ve done about 150 of them, and volunteered at about 80. Maybe more. It will be back at the right time, of that I’m very confident.

I wonder will some parks be reluctant to give permission. Take Marlay as an example, it's very busy, even at 9:30am on a Saturday morning. Lots of folks have really embraced the park again throughout covid.
I'm sure this is an extra consideration for councils.

Genghis · 05-06-2021 11:34pm

NI return on 26 June to be confirmed in an announcement on Friday from Parkrun UK.

Link

opus · 06-06-2021 1:35pm

Genghis wrote: »

NI return on 26 June to be confirmed in an announcement on Friday from Parkrun UK.

Link

I'm going to be in Dublin that w/end & must admit the thought crossed my mind to make a break for the border but it's too much of a drive for a 5k run really.

Van.Bosch · 07-06-2021 12:51am

opus wrote: »

I'm going to be in Dublin that w/end & must admit the thought crossed my mind to make a break for the border but it's too much of a drive for a 5k run really.

Is it??

Genghis · 07-06-2021 10:26am

opus wrote: »

I'm going to be in Dublin that w/end & must admit the thought crossed my mind to make a break for the border but it's too much of a drive for a 5k run really.

By a stroke of good fortune, we had planned a week's staycation in Donegal, so on that day I will be within 50 mins of 4 NI Parkruns. Will be keenly watching the announcements on Friday!

robinph · 07-06-2021 10:37am

I'm hoping that parkrun for England, and likely also Wales and NI now, go for the bold option of saying that they are going ahead on the 26th. There are noises around the covid restrictions potentially not being fully lifted next Monday so parkrun HQ have to guess what they think that will be to an extent, but parkrun are still not going to want to tie themselves to the restrictions lifting any more than possible.

If they say parkrun will restart, but nightclubs are not allowed to open in the final relaxation of restrictions and we are still advised to wear masks in shops, then will landowners be able to get away with withdrawing permission for outdoor activities because of those unrelated restrictions?

Only reason for parkrun to not go ahead is if more restrictions are brought back in, although I seriously doubt we'd be going back to January/ February level situation so technically even if more things are brought back in parkrun would still be allowed by government.

Genghis · 08-06-2021 9:41am

Interesting dimension in England. Parkrun have calculated that if a certain % of landowners don't consent (more than 20%), then the whole country can't proceed as the permitted events would become oversubscribed. Seems to be a bigger issue in places like London.

So while the Government has moved enough to let many give permission, it does seem that some landowners are waiting on more government restrictions to ease, and it's the cumulative sum of local decisions that is really determining if England returns on 26 June.

Not mentioned in the article below is the level of landowner support in NI, or the amount of cross border participation expected.

Hopefully the article is being written to apply positive pressure before Friday, not in anticipation of bad news.

Link

peter kern · 08-06-2021 11:02am

this is interesting but i wouder would a few things like in the first weeks you can only participate if you have volunteered or first come first served rule make this work i assume different course will have different participation levels ie out and boack courses in smaller parks or aon coast front will have smaller numbers than more open parks.
i do see what they are saying but one would hope the conclusion is rather than not doing them was to find a way to regulate it . which is a pity but maybe in the case the lesser evil .

i like parkruns but much more i love the idea behind it and i have also no problem if i was asked not to do them as i go running anyway and the people that have put on weight during the lockdown need them more as a motivator.

robinph · 08-06-2021 11:28am

The position from parkrun HQ is that there should be minimal barriers to participation, and to keep it simple.

Various race organisers how are in the business of holding events have come up with different configurations of holding their events with timed starts, waves, chip timing, pre registration etc, but none of that is cheap to do or simple for a bunch of volunteers to handle. Would be a massive extra burden on the volunteers to manage any of the different types of waved starts people have suggested and extra time for them to be stood around and far more complicated for them to administer, in addition to parkrun having to rebuild their system to handle it. You then also have that it makes it more difficult for the people that parkrun are most interested in reaching to get them to participate if there is some kind of limited numbers, pre registration or more infrastructure around the timing which makes it look more like a race. Just changing the possibility for people to feel anonymous in the middle of a crowd could be a big turn off for those who parkrun most want to get active.

Anbocmorrua · 08-06-2021 11:35am

I will be holding back from running for a couple of weeks until things settle down. It's easy to see how some parkruns might easily become overwhelmed at the start. Until then volunteering might be a better option for folks.

peter kern · 08-06-2021 2:05pm

robinph wrote: »

The position from parkrun HQ is that there should be minimal barriers to participation, and to keep it simple.

Various race organisers how are in the business of holding events have come up with different configurations of holding their events with timed starts, waves, chip timing, pre registration etc, but none of that is cheap to do or simple for a bunch of volunteers to handle. Would be a massive extra burden on the volunteers to manage any of the different types of waved starts people have suggested and extra time for them to be stood around and far more complicated for them to administer, in addition to parkrun having to rebuild their system to handle it. You then also have that it makes it more difficult for the people that parkrun are most interested in reaching to get them to participate if there is some kind of limited numbers, pre registration or more infrastructure around the timing which makes it look more like a race. Just changing the possibility for people to feel anonymous in the middle of a crowd could be a big turn off for those who parkrun most want to get active.

robinph wrote: »

The position from parkrun HQ is that there should be minimal barriers to participation, and to keep it simple.

but no parkruns would is the biggest barrier.
and yes i totally agree there is a limit what volunteers should be asked for to do in this case especially the race director of the race should not be overburdened.
you could ask the sub 25 min runner not to show up i would assume that would limit numbers by approx 20 % and they are not really the ones that need to get more active. iam sure some will ignore this request but i guess most would comply

Anbocmorrua · 09-06-2021 2:34pm

peter kern wrote: »

robinph wrote: »

The position from parkrun HQ is that there should be minimal barriers to participation, and to keep it simple.

you could ask the sub 25 min runner not to show up i would assume that would limit numbers by approx 20 % and they are not really the ones that need to get more active. iam sure some will ignore this request but i guess most would comply

Offer a minimum finish time of 25 mins. That would keep a few folks away. Or maybe not.

parkrun, lap two

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