The way forward for LC2021

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It’s not. The panel formed by the school make the final decision on the mark assigned to the student for the accredited grade and can ask for evidence as to how this grade was arrived at. Any school principal with an ounce of cop on wouldn’t sign off on a high grade in HL Applied Maths for a student who is struggling with OL maths. The panel also make the final decision on the mark awarded not the teacher who submitted the grade.

The school can’t stop the student from registering from HL, but the student can’t stop the class teacher from giving a H8 to a student who is doing OL and can’t pass HL class tests.

I thought a panel was only formed if the student has been doing the subject outside with an unregistered/unqualified teacher

Slightly off topic but seeing as it’s been mentioned a couple of times in recent posts, I must say it kind of annoys me as an Irish teacher to constantly see “the way it’s taught” given as a reason for students not being good at Irish.
The curriculum is the main problem, too much time needs to be spent on literature.

At least the oral is worth 40% which means you can spend a lot of time on it in class and most students now are actually well able to converse by the time they leave school. (If they lose it after that’s not the teachers fault. I lost my French completely because I didn’t practice it after school)

Unfortunately with the new LC likely to go the way of the disgraceful Junior Cycle Irish, I worry for the near future when that comes in.
Students struggle with Maths and the course is far too long but you rarely hear the same “the way it’s taught” given as a reason for students struggling. Sorry for that little rant!

Treppen wrote: »

I thought a panel was only formed if the student has been doing the subject outside with an unregistered/unqualified teacher

No, a panel is required for any student taking a subject outside school. The teacher has to provide details of their qualifications (TC registration). I have taught a few students outside school this year as it happens, and have supplied my registration details and all of the evidence of tests, coursework etc to each school for their panel.

If the person providing you with tuition outside of school is a registered
teacher/tutor, they will be asked to review, and share, the evidence of your
learning available to them and to provide an estimated mark on your likely
performance in the subject. They will be required to cooperate with the panel of
registered teachers in the school who may contact them to discuss the basis for
the estimate that they have provided. The final estimated mark will be
determined by the panel of registered teachers in the school. The external
teacher/tutor will also be expected to provide proof of their registration status,
where applicable. Following completion of these steps, the panel of registered
teachers will provide your estimated mark to the principal/coordinator.

RealJohn wrote: »

That isn’t what I said, and you know it.
The rest of what you said was largely rubbish too. Lots of languages have irregular verbs. German has the tuiseal ginideach too (and it’s just as dreaded), as do many other languages. And I’d love to see evidence that suggests that someone with good Irish doesn’t do as well, generally, as someone with good English - the only reason it’s not a good predictor of success at third level across the board is because of the excuses made for it being poorly taught, but I very much suspect that the pattern you see at third level associated with a strong performance in English is also seen associated with a strong performance in Irish.

And as I said, as a core subject, and our national language, it’s entitled to be given equal treatment to English, whether people like that or not.

HEA did analysis on this so it's not something I see, it's what's shown in the data. I read the report at the time but can't find it but here's the reporting

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20134713.html%3ftype=amp

I'm not arguing against Irish being important, my family would all have a high standard but it's simply not as good a predictor as maths or English. Numeracy and literacy are far reaching skill sets.

I had massive advantage in being from a small town, with a good standard of Irish, and pretty good teachers with support from home. Although these factors would be the same for other subjects I do think a language being spoken at home etc is a massive advantage, even just in my aural and oral.

And agreed, the curriculum is a disaster. I wasn't disparaging all Irish teachers but a lot of good ones leave. It's always 21,20 on your timetable in urban areas and outside of a few very strong green areas like Ballymun the kids standard of Irish is appalling. I walked into a 3rd year Irish class and addressed the teacher in Irish, would have been the norm where I was from, everyone thought I had 5 heads. DEIS focuses on literacy and numeracy for a reason.

And it would be regarded as very different linguistically. American state department compiled below but it tracks with most things I've read or people who are multilingual who I've spoken to.

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Language_Learning_Difficulty_for_English_Speakers

Basically not super hard coz it still uses the same alphabet but not as easy as many other languages, particularly romance languages

September 3rd for Results. Personally I think this is far too long, but these are difficult times.


https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2021/0602/1225646-leaving-cert-exams/

RealJohn wrote: »

Does it matter to teachers when the results come out? I certainly don’t care. Why would I?

For viewing papers with students. Also, in 2019 the appeals happened in august, much earlier than usual, so anyone involved in the would be interested in when they might happen.

RealJohn wrote: »

Pretty limited number of appeal examiners (especially this year) and again, if someone was to go in and view papers for students, why would it being later than usual make a difference? For some people, it’d be better, because it’d save them a trip.
Very small thing for teachers to complain about. Students being unhappy about it, I can understand.

I thought you were asking why the poster was giving us that information, not what would we be annoyed by it, crossed wires!

RealJohn wrote: »

Does it matter to teachers when the results come out? I certainly don’t care. Why would I?

I'd care for my students. This hanging over them the entire summer.

We have kids who will become homeless when they turn 18, who have family situations that mean they can't access grant application without additional supports, and a whole lot in between. Were you missing the day they taught empathy in school? It's not the short wait. It's the shorter time and less access to staff that can support them in this transition. The resilience some of these kids will have shown in getting this far is already impressive

No one here said it was a massive deal, just that it was far from ideal and it would be easier if the traditional dates were adhered to.

Norma said on Twitter the results are only ‘expected’ to be announced on that date. She was delighted about it too for some reason.

But….. why?

The exams are being sat as normal (ish). In smaller numbers. Corrections should be done in the normal timeframe and probably sooner given the reduced numbers.

The accredited grades are done in the next week and will be good to go as soon as corrections finish

Wtf are they going to be doing with the data that will take that long?

You clearly said it didn't effect you so you didn't care. Some students have great home supports. Some are barely surviving. This hits them. It's not something that will effect me personally but it will make the process more difficult for students from disadvantaged backgrounds. There are many students who would love some over parenting or any at all. I feel for these students and many schools in disadvantaged areas put supports in place, staffed by the teachers on a voluntary basis, which will be much harder to do when the school is back I'm full swing.

Fair point regarding the students going abroad. Usually a much earlier start in other countries, makes accomodation, flights, acceptance arc very tight.

Agree with above too. Marking conferences ect are all at roughly the normal time, sprioc la looks the same as normal, if the two systems are separate and a quick check needs to be done to pick the highest grade how will that take a month

It will affect a minority really but I can't see why and extra month is needed if what they are telling us re standardizing is true.

My sprioc lá is in early August. That’s a week later than usual, maybe more (I can’t remember exactly, but my birthday is in late July and my sprioc lá is usually around the same time). The latest on the list is August 13th. It’s not hard to work out why the results are a bit later this year. There’s a global pandemic. It’s been on the news.

RealJohn wrote: »

I could respond to this in kind, but I think I’ll just highlight it instead.
This is not the leaving cert forum. This is the teaching and lecturing forum. It’s for adults.

Not showing empathy is an unusual hill to die on.... but whatever.

RealJohn wrote: »

Again, this is a forum for teachers, not students. Whinging about the date the results are out is not showing empathy for students. It’s virtue signalling. If you want to show empathy for your students, do it in person, not on an internet forum.

You a mod?