Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

JDD wrote: »

It's a small building but I believe it did house a restaurant at one point so I guess it's zoned as commercial. It's nonsense if you can't build apartments on the site though - the buildings either side of it are residential. Surely an application could be made - the councillors would be mad to go against it when it's clear no-one wants to open something there. That end of the road is odd - there's a small shop further up and there is a constant turnover of leaseholders. There's just not enough passing trade or parking there to facilitate a commercial business.


And as for that eyesore in Sandyford - WHAT in the name of jaysus is going on there? Clearly no-one is going to take that on now. Why aren't the council insisting that it be pulled down? I've seen young teenagers climb over the hoarding in the past - I guess if someone plummets to their death the council might do something about it.

I don't fully know what the story is with it, but a family friend works with developers and has said that, possibly like the Booterstown building, it was zoned for offices originally. However, now there is no need for more offices in the area (Sandyford has had plenty of others go up since and has clearly vacant office buildings to let already) and the arcitecture as-is is not very conducive to offices anyway as it is quite narrow and doesn't have a huge amount of space per floor. But he said the council won't re-zone it for residential use for whatever reason.

I remember looking into it before and developers had applied for planning permission several times over the years. Iirc it was sometimes rejected as they wanted to add additional floors to it, which would harm the character of the area or whatever, as if a derelict concrete shell covered in graffiti is preferable to a slightly taller but new and finished building.

timmyntc wrote: »

Land is a finite resource - just because you have money doesnt give you the right to hoard it to the detriment of society at large.

Taxing vacant/derelict properties encourages efficient use of land and property, and discourages waste. In one way its one of the more progressive taxes, in that it punishes those who have more than they need.

If you have a genuinely unsellable property, then chances are its not in a RPZ or other high demand area and should be exempt.

What about golf courses and the farm that abuts DCU?

Well Compulsory Purchase Orders have driven many a motorway through any notion of inalienable property rights!

Dav010 wrote: »

That does not preclude someone from buying/hoarding properties though.

No it doesn't. You still legally have the right to hoard property if you wish, based on the fact that you have a right to own property in the first place (which the state protects). It just acts as a strong disincentive for doing so. In general, property works as an asset because it is expected to increase in price (a fairly reliable overall trend in a country with increasing population and a static amount of land), but if holding it is taxed fairly heavily then it's not a very lucrative investment.

Bass Reeves wrote:

The amount of copper in wiring in a house now compared to 20 years is often double compared to 50 years ago it 5-6 times the copper and 8-10 times the about of wire. In 1980 copper was about 50c/kg today its 5 euro/kg. .

I can be clueless on these issues but wouldn't the shift from copper to qualplex in plumbing drastically reduce its use in construction

yagan wrote:

By whether a property tax or electricity bill is being paid.

awec wrote:

Neither of these things will be able to indicate vacancy accurately.

It's an ideal starting point. We employ litter/dog/parking wardens to roam the streets on the chance that people are violating laws. Here we have the data to concentrate resources. Filter the data to get the low hanging fruit

A small team would make significant inroads quickly on this if their was the will to tackle it

cnocbui wrote: »

It's depriving society of a more societally beneficial use, which you have espoused as being a justification for financial coercion.

Lol

PropQueries wrote: »

Looks like the hybrid model of working is beginning to make an impact on the commercial property market in Dublin with the Irish Times reporting the availability of a modern six-storey grade A office building of 85,200sq ft and 33 basement car-parking spaces at No 2 Burlington Road due to:

"AIB’s decision to move to a hybrid-working model and the resulting reduction in its requirement for office space has opened up an opportunity for companies seeking headquarter accommodation in Dublin’s central business district."

The property "is available to let in its entirety or sublet on a floor-by-floor basis to accommodate the requirements of potential occupiers."

Link to article in Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/ebs-dublin-headquarters-available-to-let-at-55-per-square-foot-1.4579182

It's already taken effect, if the likes of Aib are doing it, it is already being done. Commercial property is the ghost estate of the 10s boom and this is already starting to manifest in commercial property sector reports. A year ago I was reading how times were tough but the outlook was good. Today I see the exact same type of reports on LinkedIn that 2021 has had a tough start but the outlook is good! It is living in hope and denial but there is no road left for the boom to continue and the Road Runner (to use Morgan Kelly's metaphor) has run off the edge of the cliff and is hovering in the air with his legs kicking, not yet realising he's about to plummet.

Add to that, where is the EU going with its new tax and reporting rules? For example, the rules providing for MNCs to report on a country by country basis as well as the corporate tax harmonisation plans? It is a path which leads to employees working for an EU based company anywhere in the EU as the specific tax domicile of the company is no longer relevant once it is EU based. As far as I'm concerned, this is a natural and inevitable course of direction which is being pushed through by the big players in the EU like France and Germany, while the UK is no longer there to protect our interests in these types of tax sovereignty matters.

C14N wrote: »

Where are all the farms and golf courses in Dublin city? I would agree, not a good use of land in a built-up area where people want to live, and would be unlikely to exist if land was taxed (unless the golf course or farm was so profitable that it could pay the taxes), but as it is I don't see where these are already. The nearest golf course I can think of to the city is probably in Clontarf, or maybe Rathfarnham? In general, the fact that property per acre in the city is so valuable that if you had enough of it to put a farm or golf course on it, you would probably rather sell it for a large amount of money and build a new farm or golf course elsewhere.

Elm Park. I think developers have been trying to buy it for years.

DataDude wrote: »

Elm Park. I think developers have been trying to buy it for years.

Elm Park is also very much outside the city too though.

C14N wrote: »

Where are all the farms and golf courses in Dublin city? I would agree, not a good use of land in a built-up area where people want to live, and would be unlikely to exist if land was taxed (unless the golf course or farm was so profitable that it could pay the taxes), but as it is I don't see where these are already. The nearest golf course I can think of to the city is probably in Clontarf, or maybe Rathfarnham? In general, the fact that property per acre in the city is so valuable that if you had enough of it to put a farm or golf course on it, you would probably rather sell it for a large amount of money and build a new farm or golf course elsewhere.

Milltown, Elm Park and The Castle are all within D14, D6 and D4. If you draw a line across Dublin from east to west through these golf courses you'll find they're all approximately 5km to the city centre. Pretty crazy to think that can happen but I know that there is a dearth of membership in the mid 20s to mid 30s age groups so we will see something happen in the next 10 years I'd say. Dublin would be so much nicer if these places were public parks and I think it is extremely elitist that these clubs exist on the prime land they do.

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

Milltown, Elm Park and The Castle are all within D14, D6 and D4. If you draw a line across Dublin from east to west through these golf courses you'll find they're all approximately 5km to the city centre. Pretty crazy to think that can happen but I know that there is a dearth of membership in the mid 20s to mid 30s age groups so we will see something happen in the next 10 years I'd say. Dublin would be so much nicer if these places were public parks and I think it is extremely elitist that these clubs exist on the prime land they do.

is dublin underserved in the public park department? cany say i have ever felt that