Covid-19 likely to be man made

31-05-2021 12:25AM

King Mob wrote: »

That is the headline copied pretty much verbatim from the Daily Mail.
It's about a study that has not actually been realised yet.

The same claims and research were cited by a telegraph podcast back in 2020

https://fullfact.org/health/richard-dearlove-coronavirus-claims/

31-05-2021 12:27AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well..ye were all quite dogmatic that it didn't come from a lab until last week..

Cool. Show this is the case then.
Provide some quotes.

Deleted User wrote: »

Where was your evidence it was a naturally occurring virus?..In retrospect might that have been in error would you say?..

I've posted it several times. I provided several studies that support the zoonotic origins of the virus.
With one exception the response to those studies was to declare them fraudulent, not peer reviewed and that scientific studies themselves are actually useless.

31-05-2021 12:43AM

King Mob wrote: »

With one exception the response to those studies was to declare them fraudulent, not peer reviewed and that scientific studies themselves are actually useless.

Quote these so..

The second half of your post answered your first question..

The whole point is that there can be questions about these things..

Has it not been said recently by Dr Fauci that there's no actual evidence for a zoonotic origin?..It's just a hypothesis..There's no evidence of an animal with it..

So there should be questions asked about your studies..

31-05-2021 12:57AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Quote these so..

You first thanks. Please support your claims that anyone is being dogmatic.

Deleted User wrote: »

The second half of your post answered your first question..

Lol no it doesn't.

Saying "heres some studies that support one idea" is not dogmatic by any definition.

Deleted User wrote: »

Has it not been said recently by Dr Fauci that there's no actual evidence for a zoonotic origin?..It's just a hypothesis..There's no evidence of an animal with it..

Nope. That's not what he said.
Misrepresentation again I fear.

Deleted User wrote: »

So there should be questions asked about your studies..

Sure. But randomly throwing out suggestions of fraud and conspiracy with no evidence is not "questioning".

31-05-2021 12:59AM

Who was saying they were fraudulent?..

So do you think Trump was way ahead of the game saying it came out of the lab?..

31-05-2021 01:06AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Who was saying they were fraudulent?..

So do you think Trump was way ahead of the game saying it came out of the lab?..

Sorry, you are dodging my questions.

I asked you to back up your accusations that we are being dogmatic.
You are now trying to change the subject to avoid doing this.

If you can't back up your accusations please just say so.

31-05-2021 01:14AM

dogmatic
/dɒɡˈmatɪk/

adjective
inclined to lay down principles as undeniably true.
"she was not tempted to be dogmatic about what she believed"

It's self evidently true across the forum..
Every thread just descends into ye haranguing anyone who might think there may be something to some conspiracy theory..

Unicorn Milk Latte · 31-05-2021 01:20AM

So, conspiracy theorists say that SARS-COV-2 is a bioweapon created in a lab.
And they say, it's no worse than the flu, effectively harmless, we really do not need lockdowns and masks.
And they say, there is no pandemic.
And they say the death toll is comparatively minuscule.

So, trying to understand this - they tried to create a bioweapon, but are really bad at their job?

Dohnjoe · 31-05-2021 01:22AM

Deleted User wrote: »

dogmatic
/dɒɡˈmatɪk/

adjective
inclined to lay down principles as undeniably true.
"she was not tempted to be dogmatic about what she believed"

It's self evidently true across the forum..
Every thread just descends into ye haranguing anyone who might think there may be something to some conspiracy theory..

You just made a bunch of false assumptions about me, then didn't address the post.

31-05-2021 01:23AM

Deleted User wrote: »

dogmatic
/dɒɡˈmatɪk/

adjective
inclined to lay down principles as undeniably true.
"she was not tempted to be dogmatic about what she believed"

Yes. I know what the word means.
It does not mean "here's a study that supports the idea."

Please provide a quote of any of use saying that the zoonotic origins are undeniably true.

If you can't in your next post, we'll accept it that you aren't able to and move on.
No point in chasing you down on it when it's obvious you can't back up your false accusation.

31-05-2021 01:25AM

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

So, conspiracy theorists say that SARS-COV-2 is a bioweapon created in a lab.
And they say, it's no worse than the flu, effectively harmless, we really do not need lockdowns and masks.
And they say, there is no pandemic.
And they say the death toll is comparatively minuscule.

So, trying to understand this - they tried to create a bioweapon, but are really bad at their job?

I suspect that if the lab origin theory gets more accepted the conspiracies are going to start shifting.
We're going to start hearing how the death toll was actually really bad and that the government were actually hiding the true death toll to cover up the bioweapon thing.

31-05-2021 01:38AM

King Mob wrote: »

Yes. I know what the word means.
It does not mean "here's a study that supports the idea."

Please provide a quote of any of use saying that the zoonotic origins are undeniably true.

If you can't in your next post, we'll accept it that you aren't able to and move on.
No point in chasing you down on it when it's obvious you can't back up your false accusation.

I was just looking back over a few of your posts on this thread a while ago..you seem extremely passive aggressive..practically every post is "prove it, quote it, or you can't.." or accusations of whatever..

You come across as a bit of a psycho to be honest..

31-05-2021 01:41AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I was just looking back over a few of your posts on this thread a while ago..you seem extremely passive aggressive..practically every post is "prove it, quote it, or you can't.." or accusations of whatever..

You come across as a bit of a psycho to be honest..

Cool. Can't provide any support to your accusations.
Your accusations are therefore false.

And yes unfortunately I have to ask people to back up their claims repeatedly, as like you have demonstrated, they will often dodge and ignore rather than just admit that they can't.

No one here has said that the zoonotic origin is undeniably true.
No one here has said that the lab origin is impossible.

patnor1011 · 31-05-2021 02:46AM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

And there it is, "science". A universal method put in inverted commas.

It is in commas precisely because there is zero evidence it jumped species. And with a closer look a lot of scientists agree that it is much less plausible explanation than lab leak. They were dismissed as conspiracy theorists as was everyone who dared to question Wuhan wet market bat soup connoisseurs theory.

31-05-2021 02:50AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

Wuhan wet market bat soup connoisseurs theory.

And there is that same dishonest misrepresentation again.

emo72 · 31-05-2021 08:44AM

What we do know, is that they were definitely working on covid type virus in Wuhan. My money is on accidental release due to safety protocols being lax.

I find that more believable than it coming from animals naturally because they haven't found the link. They found the source of MERS and SARS handily enough, but not this time in spite of it being in CCPs and American scientists who were working in Wuhan lab best interests to do so.

Obviously I offer no proof, nobody has any! But you know it's not a far out conspiracy theory, it's quite a logical view point going on the info we have so far.

I hope my opinion doesn't upset anyone.

astrofool · 31-05-2021 09:56AM

It was always the funny thing about trump trying to pin the blame on China while China had virtually no cases and the US pandemic was out of control.

"So, they defeated you then donald?".

astrofool · 31-05-2021 10:02AM

emo72 wrote: »

What we do know, is that they were definitely working on covid type virus in Wuhan. My money is on accidental release due to safety protocols being lax.

I find that more believable than it coming from animals naturally because they haven't found the link. They found the source of MERS and SARS handily enough, but not this time in spite of it being in CCPs and American scientists who were working in Wuhan lab best interests to do so.

Obviously I offer no proof, nobody has any! But you know it's not a far out conspiracy theory, it's quite a logical view point going on the info we have so far.

I hope my opinion doesn't upset anyone.

There are numerous new viruses discovered each year, most don't spread too far or have negligible symptoms, SARS and MERS were 2 similar virus discovered this century so it wasn't unlikely that there would be more.

Now, the question is why SARS-COV2 would be a lab leak and all those other virus occurred naturally? Are lab leaks happening frequently, but they're usually harmless, or do they happen a lot and we just got unlucky this time?

Remember to separate the impact of the virus from the origin of the virus and then examine the situation. It's the impact of the virus that has people coming up with all sorts of theories for SARS-COV2, but ignoring all the other new virus discovered each year that have little impact.

Dohnjoe · 31-05-2021 01:13PM

emo72 wrote: »

Obviously I offer no proof, nobody has any! But you know it's not a far out conspiracy theory, it's quite a logical view point going on the info we have so far.

Last year conspiracy theorists were peddling that the virus was created in a lab, and/or it was released as a "bioweapon". Many have since diluted that view down. Basically they'll always gravitate towards the conspiracy theory, whatever it is.

Likewise other conspiracy theorists are claiming the pandemic is fake, that Covid doesn't exist, that it's been created by the NWO, by the "elites", you name it, every bonkers contradictory theory you can imagine - if it turns out that Covid is natural but accidentally escaped from a lab in China, all of those conspiracy theorists, even the ones who deny Covid exists, will celebrate they were "right" all along.

It's not rational behaviour

Mic 1972 · 31-05-2021 01:14PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Source?

you can find plenty of material in the usual places
the news is slowly making into way onto the mainstream

Mic 1972 · 31-05-2021 01:15PM

NSAman wrote: »

With all this re-newed investigations into the origin, no one has asked the question:

If it can be linked to an experiment that went wrong (which I have always held as the cause) what will happen?

probably nothing, no government is going to go against China

Dohnjoe · 31-05-2021 01:25PM

Mic 1972 wrote: »

you can find plenty of material in the usual places the news is slowly making into way onto the mainstream

No, I'm not finding any credible source at all for the below.

The latest on this is now it's being slowly revealled that COVID-19 ‘has NO credible natural ancestor’ and WAS created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with ‘retro-engineering’ to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats.

Checking conspiracy sites; it's not real, it's real, it's natural, it's man-made, it's a bioweapon, it's created by the Chinese, it's created by the NWO, by the Elites, etc, etc, etc. The usual mish-mash of random made-up stuff. So I suspect that's the source.

mcsean2163 · 31-05-2021 02:13PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was just looking back over a few of your posts on this thread a while ago..you seem extremely passive aggressive..practically every post is "prove it, quote it, or you can't.." or accusations of whatever..

You come across as a bit of a psycho to be honest..

Two in particular seem very similar especially when angry. Psycho seems extreme but perhaps some assistance with their mental health would go a long way.

I find it irritating how they label someone asking a question as a conspiracy theorist. I worked for a company where questions and knowledge sharing were discouraged, it's bust, €70 million gone.

Labelling and then shouting done someone with a question is bullying in my book. However, I expect bullies may need help with their mental health too and perhaps even more so than those that are being bullied. In a functioning society, I believe it's very important that people engaging in bullying behaviour get that help too so they can learn and correct their behaviour.

Hopefully 2021 will be a less polarised year with better transparency on all aspects of the origin of covid19.

31-05-2021 02:30PM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Two in particular seem very similar especially when angry.

Haha..
One or two do seem like they're almost the same person at times alright..
It's like talking to the borg..

Reminiscent of the struggle sessions of old..

Although what with the CIA releasing UFO footage, and Fauci saying it could have come from the lab, it's probably a difficult time for them..

31-05-2021 02:50PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Last year conspiracy theorists were peddling that the virus was created in a lab, and/or it was released as a "bioweapon". Many have since diluted that view down. Basically they'll always gravitate towards the conspiracy theory, whatever it is.

Likewise other conspiracy theorists are claiming the pandemic is fake, that Covid doesn't exist, that it's been created by the NWO, by the "elites", you name it, every bonkers contradictory theory you can imagine - if it turns out that Covid is natural but accidentally escaped from a lab in China, all of those conspiracy theorists, even the ones who deny Covid exists, will celebrate they were "right" all along.

It's not rational behaviour

And already we're seeing folks telling us we've been proved wrong when we said that the lab origin idea was impossible: a position we've never actually held or said and which we stated the opposite of many times.

The word Orwellian is getting bandied about a lot lately, which is weird given how this is going on.

People know that we never said that, they know they can't support their accusation. Yet they will rewrite history anyway.

mcsean2163 · 31-05-2021 03:36PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Haha..
One or two do seem like they're almost the same person at times alright..
It's like talking to the borg..

Reminiscent of the struggle sessions of old..

Although what with the CIA releasing UFO footage, and Fauci saying it could have come from the lab, it's probably a difficult time for them..

It's a good move by Biden and no doubt is placating a lot of people in the US.

IMHO, It's easy for someone to upset someone by attacking something dear to them. I doubt many posters here would have the courage to down to castlebar and tell the young lads there that their mother is a slut.

There are some here that take a particular pleasure in upsetting people and making them look foolish. I reckon they might fancy themselves as cult busters or super detectives.

In my experience, listening to someone is the starting place and respectful discussion the first step if someone is gone off the deep end, (I'm thinking of someone in particular). Sneering and deriding someone is unhelpful and a sinister way of asserting supposed superiority and a despicable way of deriving pleasure from the misery of others.

I'm not well acquainted with conspiracy theories at all.

In the case of covid19, as someone from a stem background, I found it illogical to rule out a lab leak. As time has gone on, various conflicts of interest have been revealed and it seems that only now, that a potential for an unbiased investigation exists, which is shocking.

timmyntc · 31-05-2021 03:43PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Last year conspiracy theorists were peddling that the virus was created in a lab, and/or it was released as a "bioweapon". Many have since diluted that view down. Basically they'll always gravitate towards the conspiracy theory, whatever it is.

Likewise other conspiracy theorists are claiming the pandemic is fake, that Covid doesn't exist, that it's been created by the NWO, by the "elites", you name it, every bonkers contradictory theory you can imagine - if it turns out that Covid is natural but accidentally escaped from a lab in China, all of those conspiracy theorists, even the ones who deny Covid exists, will celebrate they were "right" all along.

It's not rational behaviour

"Conspiracy theorists" is a massive strawman. Who decides who is a theorist? Does it depend on what they say? Or the time of day?

Trump was a conspiracy theorist when he said virus may have come from a lab - but Biden is not for making the same statement. Its a totally arbitrary label.

My point is, plenty of people said that the virus leaked from a lab in Wuhan - not that it was a bioengineered superweapon or whatever. You are just as guilty of re-writing the past that you are accusing conspiracy theorists of.

if something comes out to vindicate their claim, you will likely say that you knew that was the case, but that their claims were something else more outlandish so they are still wrong. Putting words in their mouths. Total pedantry.

Mic 1972 · 31-05-2021 03:51PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No, I'm not finding any credible source at all for the below.

Checking conspiracy sites; it's not real, it's real, it's natural, it's man-made, it's a bioweapon, it's created by the Chinese, it's created by the NWO, by the Elites, etc, etc, etc. The usual mish-mash of random made-up stuff. So I suspect that's the source.

If conspiracy sites are your source of information I guess you answered your own question

31-05-2021 03:56PM

timmyntc wrote: »

"Conspiracy theorists" is a massive strawman. Who decides who is a theorist? Does it depend on what they say? Or the time of day?

Trump was a conspiracy theorist when he said virus may have come from a lab - but Biden is not for making the same statement. Its a totally arbitrary label.

He was also claiming that the virus wasn't a big deal and that it could be treated with aquarium cleaner.
He later claimed that the election was stolen via non-existent voter fraud.
He has also claimed that that China invented the concept of global warming.
He also claimed that Obama wasn't born in the US.

He's a serial liar who has repeatedly claimed false things without evidence and promoted all manner of conspiracy theories when they suit him.
I doubt very much he believes half the stuff he claims, but he claims it and uses it to appeal to a particular base.

What information was Trump basing his lab origin claims on though?
How do we know that it wasn't just some random bull**** he plucked out of the air like those other things that just happened to be closer to reality than usual?
Stopped clocks and all that.

timmyntc wrote: »

My point is, plenty of people said that the virus leaked from a lab in Wuhan - not that it was a bioengineered superweapon or whatever. You are just as guilty of re-writing the past that you are accusing conspiracy theorists of.

Very few people here have done so however.
Of the few conspiracy theorists who have directly stated their opinions, few keep their beliefs to "it might be a natural virus that escaped".
But we've had tons of examples of people claiming that it's a "plandemic", that the virus was meant to be a bioweapon and that it's somehow not very deadly.

Just pick a thread and have a read.

timmyntc · 31-05-2021 04:30PM

King Mob wrote: »

He was also claiming that the virus wasn't a big deal and that it could be treated with aquarium cleaner.
He later claimed that the election was stolen via non-existent voter fraud.
He has also claimed that that China invented the concept of global warming.
He also claimed that Obama wasn't born in the US.

He's a serial liar who has repeatedly claimed false things without evidence and promoted all manner of conspiracy theories when they suit him.
I doubt very much he believes half the stuff he claims, but he claims it and uses it to appeal to a particular base.

What information was Trump basing his lab origin claims on though?
How do we know that it wasn't just some random bull**** he plucked out of the air like those other things that just happened to be closer to reality than usual?
Stopped clocks and all that.

Very few people here have done so however.
Of the few conspiracy theorists who have directly stated their opinions, few keep their beliefs to "it might be a natural virus that escaped".
But we've had tons of examples of people claiming that it's a "plandemic", that the virus was meant to be a bioweapon and that it's somehow not very deadly.

Just pick a thread and have a read.

There is an element of stopped clocks and all that with your posts too it seems. You throw out tonnes of accusations and slurs at people, then if evidence comes out to debunk some of those, you will claim you always knew - and ignore the times you were proven wrong.

These threads, like most have a wide spectrum of opinion. Some are mental, some are tame, some are in between. Last year there was quite a bit of chatter about the "coincidence" of the Wuhan virology lab, its proximity to the wet market, and whistleblowers claiming they were contaminated with infected material in the lab.
There was also past statements about how the Wuhan lab were investigating bat coronaviruses from central China in years gone by.

But at the time yourself and others labelled it all total conspiracy BS. And now that the new US admin are supporting the theory in part at least, now you're on damage control and trying to misrepresent other posters, claiming that everyone was on the "plandemic" bandwagon.

Covid-19 likely to be man made

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