Random EV thoughts.....

the_amazing_raisin · 28-05-2021 08:57PM

MJohnston wrote: »

A random thought — imo “range anxiety” is not about the range that your EV will travel. It is much more about not having confidence in the estimated range your car gives you on a journey.

So, how accurate do you find the estimates that your EV gives you? Should this be a more important purchasing metric than range alone?

Yeah it's very frustrating when you see ads like the ID.4 "500 km" range. I know it's based on WLTP which is lab conditions and not real world, but at the same time should it be okay to use those figures in advertising?

It's the same for ICE cars, remember when you'd get a Diesel mobile that says it'll get 70 mpg and then you can barely get above 40?

I always advise people to check EV database. It's not the best reference but you can get a good idea of the worst case

MJohnston · 28-05-2021 09:16PM

I’m not even referring to those kinds of lab estimated ranges, more so the onboard computer calculated estimates. If that range says 40km until empty, I’m almost certain to believe it’ll be 20km, because I don’t trust it.

Onboard range estimates seem to largely be calculated by simple averaging of usage figures.

I think it’s long past time that cars started getting better at this. They have access to current weather conditions, location, most have onboard navigation maps, etc. There’s no reason a car shouldn’t be able to look at a route and predict range much more intelligently using these “sensors” and others.

But also, I’d like to see more active testing of onboard range calculations - give cars a rating based on their onboard range accuracy, for example.

TheSpinmaster · 28-05-2021 10:00PM

Irishjg wrote: »

What a great point. The fantasy figures quoted by the manufacturer in many cases bear no relation to reality. Also people need to understand that 50-10% real range is much less than 90-50%. kWh/100km is not linear and will increase at lower SOC. Then take external forces like weather and temperature into account and the figures will become even more foggy. The WLTP quoted figures cannot match real world driving.

Have never heard this before (the non linear kWh/100km part). Why does it increase at lower SOC?

the_amazing_raisin · 28-05-2021 10:10PM

TheSpinmaster wrote: »

Have never heard this before (the non linear kWh/100km part). Why does it increase at lower SOC?

It doesn't do that for all cars but it can happen

Basically measuring the exact energy content of the battery pack is not quite straightforward

The battery management system estimates the current capacity based on the known characteristics of the battery, including the level at which the voltage is too low to provide power

Since it's an estimate, it can be inaccurate, and those inaccuracies can get worse over time as individual cells in the battery degrade faster than others

So sometimes when a car hasn't been driven down to a low SoC for a while the battery percentage will drop rapidly as it approaches zero. Basically the management system has recalibrated where the lowest SoC really is

Some cars are worse for this than others it seems, apparently the Ioniq is a bit notorious for the battery charge dropping rapidly below 50%

McGiver · 28-05-2021 11:18PM

slave1 wrote:

They'll have to use all the street light poles

Good idea but too low power, I hear you can get only 2 kW really out of them.

McGiver · 28-05-2021 11:26PM

TheSpinmaster wrote:

Have never heard this before (the non linear kWh/100km part). Why does it increase at lower SOC?

the_amazing_raisin wrote:

Basically measuring the exact energy content of the battery pack is not quite straightforward

It's more to do with non-linear discharge curve of Li-ion cells, I'd say. The top 50% of the SOC <> the bottom 50% of the SOC, in terms of energy content (power available).

Note: LFP cells suffer from this much more than NMCA cells.

Silent Running · 29-05-2021 08:25AM

McGiver wrote: »

Good idea but too low power, I hear you can get only 2 kW really out of them.

I don't think it's about using the current cabling. The installed infrastructure (ducts, electrical connectivity and posts) is what could be very useful.

McGiver · 29-05-2021 08:55AM

Silent Running wrote:

I don't think it's about using the current cabling. The installed infrastructure (ducts, electrical connectivity and posts) is what could be very useful.

Right.

If using the current cabling - they say they can give 24 A, if it's converted to a LED lamp, the supply is typically 25 A (in the UK). I think the voltage is 230 V. That gives around 5 kW single phase. Not bad actually.

While lamp posts are a good idea they aren't dense enough. It's a good start and will be a low hanging fruit for the local authorities.

These folks have very good ideas on where else to do on-street charging - limpets, geckos and armadillos. Installed on existing objects - on signposts, kerbs, walls.
https://www.connectedkerb.com

They make a good point:

Nearly half of all vehicle owners – 43% – do not have a driveway, which is why,we at Connected Kerb believe the future of electric vehicle charging will be focused on urban residential streets. Current fossil fuel forecourts will not be able to cope with expected demand and, as demand for charging increases, the UK power network will not be able to sustain a rapid charging solution for all.

The only viable option is a low power, low cost, low impact residential solution which can be rolled out nationally.

The UK power network cannot currently cope with a mass rollout of rapid chargers. Whilst rapid chargers have their place, the average time to charge is 30 minutes and the existing UK infrastructure for powering vehicles simply does not have the forecourt space to cope with multiple vehicles charging at any one time. This applies going forward too, based on the expected speeds of rapid charging over the next 20 years.

The current providers of on-street charging solutions have experienced many roadblocks to their solutions, not least cost.

The only viable solution is a rollout of a residential on street charging network.

Black_Knight · 29-05-2021 03:11PM

Lol at the outlander fast charging at dungarvan Nissan dealer. Commitment to freeloading.

Old diesel · 29-05-2021 07:43PM

Cant seem to see anything online about the new Citroen eC4 pricing or launch date for Ireland.

Does anyone have any good Citroën dealer contacts?????.

Thank you

cannco253 · 31-05-2021 09:35AM

Has anyone used an evbox public charger before?

https://evbox.com/en/products/business-chargers/businessline

Was trying to activate it in Portumna yesterday but eCars or EasyGo card/fob didn't do anything - first time I've seen one in Galway.

Not sure if it's been switched on yet?

innrain · 31-05-2021 09:51AM

cannco253 wrote: »

Has anyone used an evbox public charger before?

https://evbox.com/en/products/business-chargers/businessline

Was trying to activate it in Portumna yesterday but eCars or EasyGo card/fob didn't do anything - first time I've seen one in Galway.

Not sure if it's been switched on yet?

Yes I used 2 years ago the charger from Sligo Park Hotel. https://www.plugshare.com/location/177662
They had a fob of their own @ the reception desk.
From what I see in the pictures from plugshare it seems the one you're referring is not activated as there are no lights ON.

unkel · 31-05-2021 12:15PM

MJohnston wrote: »

A random thought — imo “range anxiety” is not about the range that your EV will travel. It is much more about not having confidence in the estimated range your car gives you on a journey.

Exactly

MJohnston wrote: »

So, how accurate do you find the estimates that your EV gives you? Should this be a more important purchasing metric than range alone?

One of the best things about Tesla, the navigation is super accurate in terms of the percentage range left at destination. Never have to worry / never get range anxiety when the car says you will have 2-3% left upon arrival

the_amazing_raisin · 31-05-2021 12:20PM

unkel wrote: »

One of the best things about Tesla, the navigation is super accurate in terms of the percentage range left at destination. Never have to worry / never get range anxiety when the car says you will have 2-3% left upon arrival

Sure the Leaf is the same, you can drive it down to something like -10% before it dies

MJohnston · 31-05-2021 12:31PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Sure the Leaf is the same, you can drive it down to something like -10% before it dies

That's just as bad though, isn't it!

slave1 · 31-05-2021 01:05PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Sure the Leaf is the same, you can drive it down to something like -10% before it dies

Think he meant faith in GOM and destination arrival accuracy, if we're leaving on a longer trip in the Leaf the Leaf may say I can get to my destination with say, 8% but reality is there is no way the Leaf will actually make that destination as the GOM is so inaccurate.
With the Tesla if it says I will get to a far away destination with say, 4% then I would have zero anxiety that a) I can actually get there and b) I will have damn close to 4% SOC when I do.
This is where Supercharging comes into its own

the_amazing_raisin · 31-05-2021 01:05PM

MJohnston wrote: »

That's just as bad though, isn't it!

Probably the safer option than letting you drive down to empty

The Leaf was pretty conservative with the buffers, I think newer cars have a smaller bottom buffer

MJohnston · 31-05-2021 01:17PM

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Probably the safer option than letting you drive down to empty

The Leaf was pretty conservative with the buffers, I think newer cars have a smaller bottom buffer

Yeah, but I think I want to have an accurate estimate, not one that under or over-estimates.

Because even if most times you end up having more range than was originally estimated, you'll always have the worry in your mind that this time it might be over-estimating.

Black_Knight · 31-05-2021 01:31PM

Grabbing a few 99s, limited parking, so I'm EVing the pumps.

timsey tiger · 31-05-2021 01:33PM

Black_Knight wrote: »

Grabbing a few 99s, limited parking, so I'm EVing the pumps.

I did that a few weeks back too, only place with a roof in a down pour.

kanuseeme · 31-05-2021 01:36PM

Much the same as a ice parking in a charging spot, a dick move.

the_amazing_raisin · 31-05-2021 01:48PM

kanuseeme wrote: »

Much the same as a ice parking in a charging spot, a dick move.

Or the same as someone parking at the pumps while they get a breakfast roll made...

slave1 · 31-05-2021 02:55PM

kanuseeme wrote: »

Much the same as a ice parking in a charging spot, a dick move.

Perhaps, but there is a difference, an EV in a ICE spot is not illegal (morals aside) but an ICE in an EV charging spot is illegal.

whippet · 31-05-2021 03:00PM

I was EV'ed myself yesterday when I needed to fill up the PHEV ... plenty of parking around but the pump near the door was obviously too tempting for 18 stone'ish woman who needed get her smokes

Black_Knight · 31-05-2021 03:06PM

kanuseeme wrote: »

Much the same as a ice parking in a charging spot, a dick move.

Yup. Felt great.

Though those who park in EV spots aren't typically in and out in a few minutes (since EV spaces are usually too far away for the convenience). Now parking at the pumps in an EV and going in for a bit of lunch, that's more of an apples to apples comparison. Maybe next time.

kanuseeme · 31-05-2021 05:04PM

Good for you.

ELM327 · 31-05-2021 08:05PM

whippet wrote: »

I was EV'ed myself yesterday when I needed to fill up the PHEV ... plenty of parking around but the pump near the door was obviously too tempting for 18 stone'ish woman who needed get her smokes

Hey, we're not all whippets like you. Those multiple FCP stops (especially in the early days of leaf24s) really take the toll on the waistline!

AndyBoBandy · 31-05-2021 08:54PM

I got fierce looks one day pulling into my local garage and pulling up to a pump in a Tesla……. Only to open the boot and fill up a jerry can with diesel…

the_amazing_raisin · 31-05-2021 09:00PM

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I got fierce looks one day pulling into my local garage and pulling up to a pump in a Tesla……. Only to open the boot and fill up a jerry can with diesel…

I'm waiting for the video of someone trying to fill up an ICE car from an EV charger. One of those service station type layouts would be perfect for fooling someone

I remember a video a while back of someone trying to pump up their tyres with the CCS plug

Irishjg · 31-05-2021 09:14PM

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I got fierce looks one day pulling into my local garage and pulling up to a pump in a Tesla……. Only to open the boot and fill up a jerry can with diesel…

Lol you should have explained to them that in fact it was a Tesla Model REXES3XY

Random EV thoughts.....

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