Volkswagen CC & Short Journeys

lemonkey · 25-05-2021 10:00am #1

As the title suggests, I'm currently looking to buy a CC 141 from a Volkswagen Garage. Happy with the condition, warranty, mileage.. etc. I wasn't going out of my way to buy a 2L diesel, it's just all the nice cars (A4, A6, CC) are all 2L.

But my question is, is it daft to buy it considering I only do short journeys? I've read about DPF filter problems.

I work close to home, approx 7km without any stop/start as I drive against the morning traffic, make that trip 4 times a day

50% the journey @ 60km/hr and the other 50% at 80km/hr. And allowing for a standard non-lockdown year I'd still be luck to hit 9000 miles a year.

Is that too little and could it cause a problem?

punisher5112 · 25-05-2021 10:02am

Petrol, hybrid or electric for you I'm afraid....

Modern diesel are designed to be driven, they wouldn't even get to temperature with your driving.

colm_mcm · 25-05-2021 10:51am

You’re asking for trouble with that really.

yoshiktk · 25-05-2021 11:03am

As a Passat owner, can add few words. I live 15km from work, drive thru N11 or vilages sometimes. If not for driving to Poland every summer holiday I would go petrol. The distance is to short to get the most of diesel, the little amount You could save on fuel will be spend on future service.

Dilbert75 · 25-05-2021 2:01pm

Small petrol engine will spend way more of it's time working at optimum on those short journeys. I recently changed to a Skoda 1.0Tsi from a Mondeo 2.0TDCi. The difference in warmup time is staggering. Even though I do a 30+ km commute each way, on winter mornings I was often more than 1/3 of the way there before the temp needle on the Ford would start to rise (even after new thermostat was fitted). It's just such a big block of iron to heat up. By contrast, I'm barely a couple of km before the Skoda is up to temp.

Water2626262 · 25-05-2021 2:41pm

It’s frustrating how many diesel cars are out there in certain ranges, particularly among CC’s, A4/5/6’s.

Especially considering they have 2 litre turbo petrols like the 250bhp one in the A4 & A5 but they are ridiculously rare.

Would a Lexus is300 float your boat?

lemonkey · 27-05-2021 9:34am

Thanks for the replies lads.

Just gonna have to buy a 1 litre Polo

yoshiktk · 27-05-2021 9:44am

lemonkey wrote: »

Thanks for the replies lads.

Just gonna have to buy a 1 litre Polo

What about something like this?
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2010-honda-cr-z-low-miles-very-clean/27964699

Infernal Racket · 27-05-2021 9:48am

Buy the cc, enjoy it and just take it for a blast at the weekends.

lemonkey · 27-05-2021 10:06am

@yoshiktk thanks for the reply. Can't say I'm mad on that one. If I'm being honest there's only a handful of cars that excite me like mentioned in my OP. It's just unfortunate they're all diesel. Or in the case of a VW Arteon, they're out of my budget.

Why can't more people be like @Internal_Racket

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 10:11am

yoshiktk wrote: »

As a Passat owner, can add few words. I live 15km from work, drive thru N11 or vilages sometimes. If not for driving to Poland every summer holiday I would go petrol. The distance is to short to get the most of diesel, the little amount You could save on fuel will be spend on future service.

You drive a diesel 360 days of the year because for 5 days you do long distance?
The cost of diesel for those 360 days will be a lot more than putting an extra fill of petrol in for the trip to Poland. Just a FYI because you mentioned swapping to petrol

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 10:13am

lemonkey wrote: »

@yoshiktk thanks for the reply. Can't say I'm mad on that one. If I'm being honest there's only a handful of cars that excite me like mentioned in my OP. It's just unfortunate they're all diesel. Or in the case of a VW Arteon, they're out of my budget.

Why can't more people be like @Internal_Racket

Buy the diesel. The country is full of people driving diesels exactly like you describe. One more ain't going to hurt.

But, have you tested a petrol? they are a lot more fun to drive, more power etc. For the bit of driving you are doing it could be more enjoyable to get a petrol.

bazz26 · 27-05-2021 10:13am

Infernal Racket wrote: »

Buy the cc, enjoy it and just take it for a blast at the weekends.

If you have to go out of your way to use a car as it was intended then you have made the wrong choice imo. An occasional blast at the weekends may only work for so long.

punisher5112 · 27-05-2021 10:16am

ineedeuro wrote: »

Buy the diesel. The country is full of people driving diesels exactly like you describe. One more ain't going to hurt.

But, have you tested a petrol? they are a lot more fun to drive, more power etc. For the bit of driving you are doing it could be more enjoyable to get a petrol.

Why would you put more expense to buy a diesel, then knowing this drive it like it is not to be to then be stuck with huge service costs and expensive repairs such as blocked dpf etc etc....

They could look up north for a petrol car too just make sure so not hit with the extra taxes that it is from the north or was brought in before January

colm_mcm · 27-05-2021 10:31am

bazz26 wrote: »

If you have to go out of your way to use a car as it was intended then you have made the wrong choice imo. An occasional blast at the weekends may only work for so long.

Yep, and the Passat will do DPF regens when it feels like it, not necessarily when you go on your weekend blast!

yoshiktk · 27-05-2021 10:32am

ineedeuro wrote: »

You drive a diesel 360 days of the year because for 5 days you do long distance?
The cost of diesel for those 360 days will be a lot more than putting an extra fill of petrol in for the trip to Poland. Just a FYI because you mentioned swapping to petrol

Ill be honest with day to day travel, with added cost of service even with diesel,for last 4 years ive moved from petrol Ive saved couple €€€. But to be honest im still torn what to do next. Drove a lovely Accord 2.0 petrol, it was a great pleasure to drive, only problem fuel consumption. Im afraid that with my heavy foot I again would have problem which i had in my prevoius petrol car, couldnt get below 9-10l/100km. Now im floating around 6.5l/100km.
Some nice hybrid could be a solution but cant find any which strike my eye, maybe besides that crx honda but i wouldnt even fit in it.

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 10:36am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why would you put more expense to buy a diesel, then knowing this drive it like it is not to be to then be stuck with huge service costs and expensive repairs such as blocked dpf etc etc....

They could look up north for a petrol car too just make sure so not hit with the extra taxes that it is from the north or was brought in before January

Ireland has a massive amount of diesel, at one stage we had 80% of car bought new as diesel. We don't have cars all over the place with blocked DPF etc etc. This thrown out here all the time yet I don't see this issues in real life. If it was true you would have people swapping to petrol ASAP yet we are 12 years or more of diesel popularity and it is still going strong

Personally I wouldn't buy a diesel for the OP requirements but if he likes the car then bang away.
As you seen on my post I did mention to test a petrol, I love petrol and have always driven them because they are a lot more fun.

lemonkey · 27-05-2021 10:41am

I appreciate all the replies lads, thanks.

I'm probably an eejit that part of me is still considering it given the general census on this thread. However, would DPF filter cleaner (fluid additive) you add to your diesel help eliminate any potential problem caused by shorter journeys? Quick google lead me to Halfords.

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 10:44am

lemonkey wrote: »

I appreciate all the replies lads, thanks.

I'm probably an eejit that part of me is still considering it given the general census on this thread. However, would DPF filter cleaner (fluid additive) you add to your diesel help eliminate any potential problem caused by shorter journeys? Quick google lead me to Halfords.

If the DPF was a big issue it would be all over the news. It's not. It's not like diesel are new to the market, they are the popular choice for the last 12 years. The chance of you having an issue are slim.

Just interested did you test a petrol?

lemonkey · 27-05-2021 10:44am

ineedeuro wrote: »

Ireland has a massive amount of diesel, at one stage we had 80% of car bought new as diesel. We don't have cars all over the place with blocked DPF etc etc. This thrown out here all the time yet I don't see this issues in real life. If it was true you would have people swapping to petrol ASAP yet we are 12 years or more of diesel popularity and it is still going strong

Personally I wouldn't buy a diesel for the OP requirements but if he likes the car then bang away.
As you seen on my post I did mention to test a petrol, I love petrol and have always driven them because they are a lot more fun.

Thanks.

I have a 1.6 petrol vectra and albeit not powerful, there was a noticeable increase in power from my previous 1.4 petrol. And I agree, it is fun to drive. I'm a whoore for accelerating really fast to the speed limit, it's good craic.

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 10:46am

lemonkey wrote: »

Thanks.

I have a 1.6 petrol vectra and albeit not powerful, there was a noticeable increase in power from my previous 1.4 petrol. And I agree, it is fun to drive. I'm a whoore for accelerating really fast to the speed limit, it's good craic.

It you like that then get an electric :-)

bazz26 · 27-05-2021 11:25am

ineedeuro wrote: »

If the DPF was a big issue it would be all over the news. It's not. It's not like diesel are new to the market, they are the popular choice for the last 12 years. The chance of you having an issue are slim.

Just interested did you test a petrol?

They were popular because tax and vrt were cheap, not because the majority of people needed them and there are plenty of examples of DPF problems with diesel cars that are not driven or used as designed. The DPF works fine on cars that are used as a diesel was designed for. I also wouldn't be so easy to dismiss the issue as being slim to someone you don't know on the internet unless your willing to pony up if your are wrong.

colm_mcm · 27-05-2021 11:39am

bazz26 wrote: »

They were popular because tax and vrt were cheap, not because the majority of people needed them and there are plenty of examples of DPF problems with diesel cars that are not driven or used as designed. The DPF works fine on cars that are used as a diesel was designed for. I also wouldn't be so easy to dismiss the issue as being slim to someone you don't know on the internet unless your willing to pony up if your are wrong.

One of the biggest factors was how poor the petrol engines on offer were in terms of emissions and power. It’s only in the last while that turbocharging petrol engines has become commonplace for example.

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 11:40am

bazz26 wrote: »

They were popular because tax and vrt were cheap, not because the majority of people needed them and there are plenty of examples of DPF problems with diesel cars that are not driven or used as designed. The DPF works fine on cars that are used as a diesel was designed for. I also wouldn't be so easy to dismiss the issue as being slim to someone you don't know on the internet unless your willing to pony up if your are wrong.

I know why diesel was popular. Drive around Dublin and you will see streets full of diesel cars. I have never seen anything in the press to suggest we have a mass issue with DPF failures in Ireland. With such a high percentage of diesels if this was a common issue I would expect more press? Maybe I am wrong and not looking in the right place but if I google I see a few articles but they are just saying give the car a 20-30 min drive every so often.

You seem to have taken offence to what I posted, no idea why. I told the guy to buy the car if he wants, he is aware of the DPF issue so if it does happen then he knows how to resolve. I also gave advice to test a petrol.

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 11:41am

colm_mcm wrote: »

One of the biggest factors was how poor the petrol engines on offer were in terms of emissions and power. It’s only in the last while that turbocharging petrol engines has become commonplace for example.

Nothing wrong with the petrol engines, just no dealers in Ireland wanted to bring them in as no market. Walk into a dealer around 2015 looking to buy a new petrol and they would look at you like you are crazy

The rest of Europe the majority of countries had a 50-50 of buying diesel v petrol

Whocare · 27-05-2021 11:46am

Just buy cc and when it gives dpf/egr problems get it removed

bazz26 · 27-05-2021 11:59am

Whocare wrote: »

Just buy cc and when it gives dpf/egr problems get it removed

Aren't the NCT checking for these now?

lemonkey · 27-05-2021 12:07pm

Anyone have any experience with the following DPF cleaning product? Seems highly rated and a cheap answer to a potential problem.

https://www.halfords.ie/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/fuel-oil-additives/wynns-diesel-particulate-filter-cleaner-325ml-325222.html

jimmycrackcorm · 27-05-2021 12:11pm

The OH has been driving her diesel car for close to ten years and only short Dublin journeys in all that time. The engine light came on recently and my OBD analysis shows it as a DPF filter. It costs circa €200 to get it cleaned, so I wouldn't rate DPF as a huge issue.

colm_mcm · 27-05-2021 12:13pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the petrol engines, just no dealers in Ireland wanted to bring them in as no market. Walk into a dealer around 2015 looking to buy a new petrol and they would look at you like you are crazy

The rest of Europe the majority of countries had a 50-50 of buying diesel v petrol

Not really. I was in car sales when the changeover to emissions tax happened, and most volume manufacturers were caught out with the petrol engines on offer. Your volume sellers like 1.4 Golf Focus and Corolla, 1.6 Mondeo/Avensis etc suddenly shot up in tax and VRT because of higher Co2 emissions. The manufacturers didn’t have anything to offer. So to use Ford as an example, they just gave up trying to sell petrol Focus and Mondeo until years later when ecoboost engines came out.
So while it’s easy to say the sheep all bought diesel and had no use for them, in a lot of cases it was a choice of a more expensive and higher depreciating petrol, or a cut price diesel.

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 12:14pm

Whocare wrote: »

Just buy cc and when it gives dpf/egr problems get it removed

You can't remove it, you need to replace it. If not installed it will fail NCT

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 12:17pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Not really. I was in car sales when the changeover to emissions tax happened, and most volume manufacturers were caught out with the petrol engines on offer. Your volume sellers like 1.4 Golf Focus and Corolla, 1.6 Mondeo/Avensis etc suddenly shot up in tax and VRT because of higher Co2 emissions. The manufacturers didn’t have anything to offer. So to use Ford as an example, they just gave up trying to sell petrol Focus and Mondeo until years later when ecoboost engines came out.
So while it’s easy to say the sheep all bought diesel and had no use for them, in a lot of cases it was a choice of a more expensive and higher depreciating petrol, or a cut price diesel.

Maybe for 1-2 years but again I mention 2015. At that stage all the manufacturers have very good petrol engines available yet buying a new one was like finding hens teeth. Normally you would ask, get told it was 16 weeks to order but look at this lovely diesel we have in stock. Cheap tax, very economical, cheap tax, ready to go now and did I mention it had cheap tax? :P

bazz26 · 27-05-2021 12:19pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

I know why diesel was popular. Drive around Dublin and you will see streets full of diesel cars. I have never seen anything in the press to suggest we have a mass issue with DPF failures in Ireland. With such a high percentage of diesels if this was a common issue I would expect more press? Maybe I am wrong and not looking in the right place but if I google I see a few articles but they are just saying give the car a 20-30 min drive every so often.

You seem to have taken offence to what I posted, no idea why. I told the guy to buy the car if he wants, he is aware of the DPF issue so if it does happen then he knows how to resolve. I also gave advice to test a petrol.

Google seems to be used as the baseline for every fact these days. Maybe a more accurate understanding would be from how many garages deal with regular DPF issues from having to force a regeneration to having the DPF replaced. Blockages are common but the cause is not the fault of the DPF, it is the symptom of incorrect usage. There are also companies out there that remove or hollow out DPFs so there is obviously demand there.

And I'm not taking any offense, it's no skin off my nose but you still told a stranger that there is a slim chance of it happening when there is nothing to confirm that is the case other than google suggests so.

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 12:25pm

bazz26 wrote: »

Google seems to be used as the baseline for every fact these days. Maybe a more accurate understanding would be from how many garages deal with regular DPF issues from having to force a regeneration to having the DPF replaced. Blockages are common but the cause is not the fault of the DPF, it is the symptom of incorrect usage. There are also companies out there that remove or hollow out DPFs so there is obviously demand there.

And I'm not taking any offense, it's no skin off my nose but you still told a stranger that there is a slim chance of it happening when there is nothing to confirm that is the case other than google suggests so.

Ok so do you have a link to anything saying this is a common problem?
Anything from AA Roadwatch which normally are good with these types of studies. Especially when they can recommend AA cover.

This is more out of interest, I am not saying you are wrong, as I am about to buy a diesel for short journeys because the type of car I am looking for is only available in diesel.

yoshiktk · 27-05-2021 1:12pm

Going a little bit on topic, if I may suggest lemon, try to test drive few cars in Your budget or if the Cc is the "one" just bite the bullet. Like for example when I had to find a car for my wife she was all in Hyundai I30 or some Peugoet, nothing else. We ended with Civic, just one test drive and she fall in love with it.

colm_mcm · 27-05-2021 1:34pm

IS300h might be a good fit.

corsav6 · 27-05-2021 1:55pm

We have a diesel with dpf doing short runs. 4 miles into school each morning and then 2 runs in the eve as both finish at different times. Dpf regen averages every 500 miles and we let it complete every time. Only big trip would be the weekends where we'd go for a spin and a few times a year to Donegal.

Short trips will just mean the dpf will regen more often, let it complete and you won't have issues.

And for all the "why didn't you just buy a petrol" posters, well it's next to impossible to find a decent 7 seater in petrol.

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 2:03pm

corsav6 wrote: »

We have a diesel with dpf doing short runs. 4 miles into school each morning and then 2 runs in the eve as both finish at different times. Dpf regen averages every 500 miles and we let it complete every time. Only big trip would be the weekends where we'd go for a spin and a few times a year to Donegal.

Short trips will just mean the dpf will regen more often, let it complete and you won't have issues.

And for all the "why didn't you just buy a petrol" posters, well it's next to impossible to find a decent 7 seater in petrol.

Well you can buy a 50k+ new Kia or a 73k new Toyota

Turbolounge · 27-05-2021 2:34pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the petrol engines, just no dealers in Ireland wanted to bring them in as no market. Walk into a dealer around 2015 looking to buy a new petrol and they would look at you like you are crazy

The rest of Europe the majority of countries had a 50-50 of buying diesel v petrol

In 2016 68% of new cars sold in Ireland were diesel, many of the people buying them had short commutes and no need for one.

User1998 · 27-05-2021 4:50pm

To be honest if it was me I’d probably just buy the car I want most and remove the DPF if it causes any issues.

It seems that the NCT are only going to start doing a diagnostic scan and if the DPF was removed correctly it won’t show on the scan (Not 100% certain but that’s what I’ve heard)

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 4:55pm

User1998 wrote: »

To be honest if it was me I’d probably just buy the car I want most and remove the DPF if it causes any issues.

It seems that the NCT are only going to start doing a diagnostic scan and if the DPF was removed correctly it won’t show on the scan (Not 100% certain but that’s what I’ve heard)

If removed it is illegal to drive on the road with it.

punisher5112 · 27-05-2021 4:55pm

User1998 wrote: »

To be honest if it was me I’d probably just buy the car I want most and remove the DPF if it causes any issues.

It seems that the NCT are only going to start doing a diagnostic scan and if the DPF was removed correctly it won’t show on the scan (Not 100% certain but that’s what I’ve heard)

They will know....

User1998 · 27-05-2021 4:57pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

If removed it is illegal to drive on the road with it.

Tell that to the thousands of drivers who have done the same

User1998 · 27-05-2021 4:58pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

They will know....

What are you basing that on? If the DPF is coded out it doesn’t show any faults on a diagnostic scan

punisher5112 · 27-05-2021 5:01pm

User1998 wrote: »

What are you basing that on? If the DPF is coded out it doesn’t show any faults on a diagnostic scan

They will be running diagnostic on them

MAULBROOK · 27-05-2021 5:02pm

Mazda MX5?

User1998 · 27-05-2021 5:03pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

They will be running diagnostic on them

And it won’t show up if its been coded out correctly ...

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 5:06pm

User1998 wrote: »

Tell that to the thousands of drivers who have done the same

Couple of millions cars on the road you will always have some clown doing something stupid. No reason for everyone else to follow.

It's illegal. If people do it they are idiots.

User1998 · 27-05-2021 5:09pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

Couple of millions cars on the road you will always have some clown doing something stupid. No reason for everyone else to follow.

It's illegal. If people do it they are idiots.

Ah the DPF brigade are out in force today.

I won’t derail the thread with a DPF debate so I’m out... Good luck with the car OP

ineedeuro · 27-05-2021 5:11pm

User1998 wrote: »

Ah the DPF brigade are out in force today.

I won’t derail the thread with a DPF debate so I’m out... Good luck with the car OP

What the f**k is the DPF brigade?
It's illegal without it. I am against clowns driving illegal cars on the road.

corsav6 · 28-05-2021 8:21am

User1998 wrote: »

What are you basing that on? If the DPF is coded out it doesn’t show any faults on a diagnostic scan

The diagnostic scan won't show a dpf, that's the issue. When checking the health of a dpf you can see it's saturation level, average regens and so on. If this info is not showing then you obviously have the dpf removed.

Volkswagen CC & Short Journeys

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