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Conspiracy Theorists

12467…14

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  • #92
    silliussoddius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,812 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    MeepMeep2021 wrote: »
    Conspiracy theorists do this. Conspiracy theorists do that. Sinister right-wing forces. And even, Lord Help Us, religious types! GASP Where's me pearls?

    It's all a bit conspiratorial from the anti-conspiracy crowd.

    Which is what happens when you stare into the abyss.

    No abyss staring required, the brain worms that is modern conspiracy theories are out in the wide open in all their consistently wrong predictions.


  • #93
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    MeepMeep2021 wrote: »
    Conspiracy theorists do this. Conspiracy theorists do that. Sinister right-wing forces. And even, Lord Help Us, religious types! GASP Where's me pearls?

    It's all a bit conspiratorial from the anti-conspiracy crowd.

    Which is what happens when you stare into the abyss.

    Go to any conspiracy site, they are chock-full of direct lies and disinformation.

    The issue is that it's not all harmless. Some of it, as we've seen, can have quite serious effects. Everything from the Qanon movement to dangerous medical disinformation that has actually cost lives.


  • #94
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    Sure some people, even ones on this very site, believe that Dr Tony Holohan has some sort of “vendetta” against the drinking class of this country.

    It’s truly bizarre the levels of “fetishising” this has received. Desperate lads taking all their impotent rage out on a medical professional doing his best to get us through this crisis.

    Radical isn't it, Emmet? Where would they get such notions?
    As the CMO the health of the Irish population is my first priority. However, no-one can deny the huge economic challenge we are experiencing now. In the current economic climate the health service will be forced to make difficult choices. In this context we can no longer afford the negative consequence of alcohol use.

    Over 10% of all general inpatient hospital costs, 14% of psychiatric hospital costs, 7% of GP costs and up to 30% of emergency department costs are due to the effects of alcohol. For 2007, the total costs imposed by alcohol on the public health care system were 1.2 billion.

    This country just cannot afford this anymore in terms of money, never mind in terms of the loss of health and happiness.

    We need to think of other ways in which we can spend our time and money that will benefit our social lives, our health and our society in general. We have a distinguished culture of music, drama and sport that long preceded our drinking culture. We need to build on these and disentangle them from what is a relatively recent association with alcohol.

    But I am optimistic. We are a country with a proven track record of an ability to change our ways for the improvement of our society. We have shown for example, in relation to cigarettes, that we put the health of our population first. We led the world in terms of regulatory and pricing measures to control consumption of tobacco. We have acted decisively and gained significant success in our fight against smoking which has reduced from 46% and 36% of men and women smoking in the 1970s to 31% and 27% of men and women respectively, currently smoking.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • #95
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    Radical isn't it, Emmet? Where would they get such notions?

    It's a normal valid concern. We consume a high amount of alcohol, it costs society a lot in terms of health. He's a physician. Almost any doctor or physician would echo the same.


  • #96
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's a normal valid concern. We consume a high amount of alcohol, it costs society a lot in terms of health. He's a physician. Almost any doctor or physician would echo the same.

    I agree, there's nothing wrong with being against alcohol. Emmet was denying that Tony had an anti alcohol agenda, which I've just proven to be nonsense. This is half of the issue. To him it's a conspiracy theory, but in reality it's a fact.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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  • #97
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,935 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    I agree, there's nothing wrong with being against alcohol. Emmet was denying that Tony had an anti alcohol agenda, which I've just proven to be nonsense. This is half of the issue. To him it's a conspiracy theory, but in reality it's a fact.

    So you, fully, believe, T, that Dr. Tony is, solely, responsible for the keeping the pub door closed just a keep a few angry men from “propping up” the bar and not because he is concerned about the spread of a, highly infectious, virus?

    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • #98
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Anyone notice conspiracy theorists? They mainly all agree with each other 100%. Talk to one, you talk to them all.


    Could you give an example?


  • #99
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    I agree, there's nothing wrong with being against alcohol. Emmet was denying that Tony had an anti alcohol agenda, which I've just proven to be nonsense. This is half of the issue. To him it's a conspiracy theory, but in reality it's a fact.

    He has a fairly moderate view on alcohol given his position.

    Not to speak for the poster, but I believe the point was raised to demonstrate how people skew that to fit a more extreme narrative, e.g. that he has a "vendetta" against alcohol.

    And to keep my post on subject, I find it's quite common among conspiracy theorists to fall into the trap of ascribing overly extreme or nefarious views to individuals who really don't hold them (Soros, Gates, etc)


  • #100
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Could you give an example?

    Take your pick

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

    I could list countless examples. It's quite rare to see one conspiracy theorist actually disagree with another despite having completely contradictory views, e.g. someone who believes that Covid is a secret plan to install global Communism agreeing with someone else who believes that Covid is a secret plan to install global Fascism.


  • #101
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Blazer wrote: »
    They're generally lower educated numbskulls who believe anything they read on facebook.
    Even worse is their sneering condescendence towards non-believers. They're basically vegans in disguise but more dense.


    Since I have doubts about various official narratives about certain events / sets of circumstances then you will call me a conspiracy theorist since I don't blindly accept everything I'm told.


    I hold two (STEM) degrees from Trinity College and eat meat or fish almost every day. Love dairy too. And I certainly don't agree with people who talk about lizard shapeshifters, chemtrails and the concept of a flat planet Earth.


    I will listen to anything with a neutral open mind and then decide if it's convincing, plausible or utter nonsense. I'm confident enough in my own abilities. Those who scream about conspiracy theorist strike me as the kind of people who are frightened to listen to alternative explanations for fear that they might be "converted". They lack the confidence in their own analytical abilities and are essentially terrified that their worldview might prove to be a bit out of sync or that they've wasted so much time believing something that was false.


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  • #102
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,713 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Rothschilds are so early 2000's, even Gates is getting old, Fauci is the new hotness. The latest is that he created Covid, not kidding.

    That is crazy. He is getting integrated at the moment. Has to kindly respond to them without calling them idiots. They remind you of Rand Paul. Lie to keep their vote base on site.


  • #103
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,713 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Since I have doubts about various official narratives about certain events / sets of circumstances then you will call me a conspiracy theorist since I don't blindly accept everything I'm told.


    I hold two (STEM) degrees from Trinity College and eat meat or fish almost every day. Love dairy too. And I certainly don't agree with people who talk about lizard shapeshifters, chemtrails and the concept of a flat planet Earth.


    I will listen to anything with a neutral open mind and then decide if it's convincing, plausible or utter nonsense. I'm confident enough in my own abilities. Those who scream about conspiracy theorist strike me as the kind of people who are frightened to listen to alternative explanations for fear that they might be "converted". They lack the confidence in their own analytical abilities and are essentially terrified that their worldview might prove to be a bit out of sync or that they've wasted so much time believing something that was false.

    You go along with what Dolores Cahill says?


  • #104
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,713 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Take your pick

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

    I could list countless examples. It's quite rare to see one conspiracy theorist actually disagree with another despite having completely contradictory views, e.g. someone who believes that Covid is a secret plan to install global Communism agreeing with someone else who believes that Covid is a secret plan to install global Fascism.

    Exactly my argument. Be like listening to a David Icke speech. All comes back to the same number of subjects.


  • #105
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It is, though.


    It isn't. Would you care to elaborate?


  • #106
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,713 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Could you give an example?

    Covid man made, Rothschilds, Soros, Pizzagate. Whatever Icke says. Perpetual motion machine. Moon landing. It all gets connected together. Even not paying mortgage.


  • #107
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,713 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Go to any conspiracy site, they are chock-full of direct lies and disinformation.

    The issue is that it's not all harmless. Some of it, as we've seen, can have quite serious effects. Everything from the Qanon movement to dangerous medical disinformation that has actually cost lives.

    Yes Dolores Cahill lying with a smile.


  • #108
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Since I have doubts about various official narratives about certain events / sets of circumstances then you will call me a conspiracy theorist since I don't blindly accept everything I'm told.


    I hold two (STEM) degrees from Trinity College and eat meat or fish almost every day. Love dairy too. And I certainly don't agree with people who talk about lizard shapeshifters, chemtrails and the concept of a flat planet Earth.


    I will listen to anything with a neutral open mind and then decide if it's convincing, plausible or utter nonsense. I'm confident enough in my own abilities. Those who scream about conspiracy theorist strike me as the kind of people who are frightened to listen to alternative explanations for fear that they might be "converted". They lack the confidence in their own analytical abilities and are essentially terrified that their worldview might prove to be a bit out of sync or that they've wasted so much time believing something that was false.

    Yet you are active in the conspiracy theories forum and fit right into conspiracy theory thinking denying stuff from 9/11 to Bin Laden's death.

    People with faulty logic or extreme views love to paint themselves as some objective person not being afraid to "question" history, but in reality they are often deniers who attack events in history (and history in general) that threaten their world views.


  • #109
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    fvp4 wrote: »
    I don't know if you are putting the anti-conspiracy theorists into a good light here, my boy?

    Do you think that the Catholic Church didn't engage in Paedophilia and cover ups? What part do you not believe in that?

    You've had quite a few times now to see what I was saying. I gave what is well known to be a fact in Ireland, as an example that some conspiracies happen. I assumed most people would get that.

    And that's all I am saying, that sometimes conspiracies do happen, although most are stupid of course.


    You have mentioned a guy who used to "drone" on about a widespread and protected paedophile ring in Ireland. The guy was probably derided as a nutcase. Except he turned out to be correct and the paedophile ring was systemic.


    I perfectly understood what you were talking about but it seems brianboru and YFlyer just don't get it or don't want to get it. So they post weird little quips that make no sense and when asked to explain wtf they are on about they resort to "well if you don't know I can't help you"


  • #110
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,583 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    For people who describe themselves as free thinkers, the ones online come across as thick as pigsh1t and can only parrot what ever some crank or grifter online tells them and have a habit of either getting cranky or running away when their arguments are shown to be what they are.

    The ones that I have had to deal with personally in a work situation either had mental health issues or were just arseholes.


  • #111
    silliussoddius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,812 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    You have mentioned a guy who used to "drone" on about a widespread and protected paedophile ring in Ireland. The guy was probably derided as a nutcase. Except he turned out to be correct and the paedophile ring was systemic.


    I perfectly understood what you were talking about but it seems brianboru and YFlyer just don't get it or don't want to get it. So they post weird little quips that make no sense and when asked to explain wtf they are on about they resort to "well if you don't know I can't help you"

    Except the abuse scandal in Ireland broke because through real journalism and victims speaking out, not because of a super secret agent on twitter telling people to do their own research and making consistently wrong predictions.


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  • #112
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,713 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    You have mentioned a guy who used to "drone" on about a widespread and protected paedophile ring in Ireland. The guy was probably derided as a nutcase. Except he turned out to be correct and the paedophile ring was systemic.


    I perfectly understood what you were talking about but it seems brianboru and YFlyer just don't get it or don't want to get it. So they post weird little quips that make no sense and when asked to explain wtf they are on about they resort to "well if you don't know I can't help you"

    I acknowledged the Catholic church scenario. It was like a means shifting the narrative of the original post.


  • #113
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,059 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    .


    I hold two (STEM) degrees from Trinity College

    And here we have confirmation of that famous theory regarding how someone knows when one has attended Trinity!


  • #114
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Was that ever a conspiracy?


    Do you even know what a conspiracy is? I'll help you out here. From the Oxford English Dictionary a conspiracy is defined as:


    "A combination of persons for an evil or unlawful purpose; an agreement between two or more persons to do something criminal, illegal, or reprehensible (especially in relation to treason, sedition, or murder); a plot."


    Clergy conspiring to target vulnerable victims for the purpose of sexual abuse....which is both criminal, illegal AND reprehensible. Other clergy, politicians and public servants conspiring to cover up the abuse.


    It doesn't get much more conspiratorial than that.


  • #115
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    They don't, that's the problem. Proponents of a conspiracy will often have completely contradictory views of that conspiracy but will agree entirely with each other.


    The OP is utter nonsense yet you are agreeing with the poster. The irony that "conspiracy theorists" all agree with each other while those who deride people as conspiracy theorists do not call one another out on bullshit.


  • #116
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,713 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Do you even know what a conspiracy is? I'll help you out here. From the Oxford English Dictionary a conspiracy is defined as:


    "A combination of persons for an evil or unlawful purpose; an agreement between two or more persons to do something criminal, illegal, or reprehensible (especially in relation to treason, sedition, or murder); a plot."


    Clergy conspiring to target vulnerable victims for the purpose of sexual abuse....which is both criminal, illegal AND reprehensible. Other clergy, politicians and public servants conspiring to cover up the abuse.


    It doesn't get much more conspiratorial than that.

    Meant to say Conspiracy Theory. Not solely conspiracy.


  • #117
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,713 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    The OP is utter nonsense yet you are agreeing with the poster. The irony that "conspiracy theorists" all agree with each other while those who deride people as conspiracy theorists do not call one another out on bullshit.

    They do agree with each other over numerous topics.


  • #118
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    The OP is utter nonsense yet you are agreeing with the poster. The irony that "conspiracy theorists" all agree with each other while those who deride people as conspiracy theorists do not call one another out on bullshit.

    Conspiracy theorists with contradictory views will often agree with each other on the same subject. I provided an example of it, and the conspiracy theory forum is full of examples of it. They see the facts as a common enemy that they have to pour doubt on and try to deny.


  • #119
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Conspiracy theorists and those with extreme beliefs love to "ask questions" to create innuendo. They often have little interest in solid details/facts, which they seem allergic to.


    Unfortunately you equate rational people expressing skepticism with extremists who hold radical beliefs. You've displayed this ad infinitum. If someone states that they don't believe the notion that Ghadaffi issued his soldier with Viagra to facilitate raping people your go-to response is either to provide evidence to disprove the concept (which is effectively demanding that they prove a negative) OR you will state that they are arguing from incredulity and that just because they don't believe the whole Viagra saga doesn't make it untrue.


  • #120
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    silliussoddius wrote: »
    And the youtube videos, good god!


    You're now painting everything on YT as non-credible. There are videos on YT of police brutality, of Israelis beating and killing innocent Palestinians. Should those videos be discounted because they are "youtube videos"?


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  • #121
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Unfortunately you equate rational people expressing skepticism with extremists who hold radical beliefs. You've displayed this ad infinitum. If someone states that they don't believe the notion that Ghadaffi issued his soldier with Viagra to facilitate raping people your go-to response is either to provide evidence to disprove the concept (which is effectively demanding that they prove a negative) OR you will state that they are arguing from incredulity and that just because they don't believe the whole Viagra saga doesn't make it untrue.

    If someone denies something happened, they have the address the evidence that supports that something. Incredulity and disbelief alone is not addressing the evidence and is completely meaningless.

    Conspiracy theorists often rely on incredulity to cast doubt on the evidence/details of an event, e.g. 9/11. It's a deliberate technique of avoiding actually addressing the evidence/details.

    Likewise, when it's obvious that something occurred (e.g. 9/11 attacks), and they are casting doubt and denial on it, then they need to provide an alternative. Denial isn't enough when something occurred.


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