Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

serfboard · 20-05-2021 04:27PM

siltirocker wrote: »

The preseaon tours a decade ago, along with Heineken Cup qualification, were directly related to Connacht's average attendances almost tripling so I can't agree with you there.

I went to the one against Wasps in Athlone a couple of years ago - it was great. Mind you, it was a cracking day, so that might have coloured my impression.

I'd be up for, at least once a season, travelling away to a home match - if that doesn't sound too contradictory.

Zzippy · 20-05-2021 05:34PM

Not putting down Sligo, but why would Connacht play a game in a soccer stadium they would have to pay to rent, just because it's there? It makes no financial sense to play anything other than a preseason friendly outside of Galway. And given our finances, we need every penny we can save.

Strand1970 · 20-05-2021 08:23PM

At the minimum connacht would have to break even on moving a game. Ideally one game elsewhere a season would be great and create a buzz but the reality is connacht need ever penny they can get. The notion of moving preseasons games would not work. It's like moving a FBD league game to a large local club and hoping you might get a bigger crowd. Is there any update on connacht own plans? Can part of the government funding be drawn down to go ahead with the new pitch?

Bazzo · 20-05-2021 08:31PM

Strand1970 wrote: »

At the minimum connacht would have to break even on moving a game. Ideally one game elsewhere a season would be great and create a buzz but the reality is connacht need ever penny they can get. The notion of moving preseasons games would not work. It's like moving a FBD league game to a large local club and hoping you might get a bigger crowd. Is there any update on connacht own plans? Can part of the government funding be drawn down to go ahead with the new pitch?

Last I remember hearing about it was back in January. Andy Friend mentioned it in the press release following his new contract:

Andy Friend wrote:

There’s a hugely exciting few years ahead for Connacht, both on the field with the squad we have and off the field with the redevelopment of the Sportsground

Pretty sure it was also confirmed somewhere at some stage that the government funding was still in place, but can't remember where.

siltirocker · 20-05-2021 09:32PM

Zzippy wrote: »

Not putting down Sligo, but why would Connacht play a game in a soccer stadium they would have to pay to rent, just because it's there? It makes no financial sense to play anything other than a preseason friendly outside of Galway. And given our finances, we need every penny we can save.

Playing in places like Sligo will lead to an increase in support which will lead to increased revenues. Like it has before. We are not talking about an unknown hypothetical. Those games in Athlone were attended by folk from Carrick to Portumna. Those same people then began setting up buses and trips to Galway regularly. Our average attendance went from 1,800 - 4,500 in only 2 years. (Granted HC had a lot to do with that). The games in Athlone, were highlighted in the PGB surveys, as key to this.

Disillusionment across the province is growing. And some of the comments here support that. Having a game or two in places like Athlone or Sligo will reinforce and grow the fan base, and the amounts travelling down to the Sportsground. This has literally worked before, and IMO there is no reason it won't again.

I get there is opinions one way or another on it why it may or may not work, but towards that, again I'll stress: this has worked before. And could be a good tactic to address the growing distance some fans have.

Zzippy · 20-05-2021 11:10PM

siltirocker wrote: »

Playing in places like Sligo will lead to an increase in support which will lead to increased revenues. Like it has before. We are not talking about an unknown hypothetical. Those games in Athlone were attended by folk from Carrick to Portumna. Those same people then began setting up buses and trips to Galway regularly. Our average attendance went from 1,800 - 4,500 in only 2 years. (Granted HC had a lot to do with that). The games in Athlone, were highlighted in the PGB surveys, as key to this.

Disillusionment across the province is growing. And some of the comments here support that. Having a game or two in places like Athlone or Sligo will reinforce and grow the fan base, and the amounts travelling down to the Sportsground. This has literally worked before, and IMO there is no reason it won't again.

I get there is opinions one way or another on it why it may or may not work, but towards that, again I'll stress: this has worked before. And could be a good tactic to address the growing distance some fans have.

Those were pre-season games. Connacht rely heavily on matchday revenue, and season ticket sales are based on regular season games being held in the Sportsground.
Also, correlation =/= causation. You acknowledged those pre-season games came when we qualified for HEC. IMO that had a far bigger impact on the increase in season tickets and attendance.

siltirocker · 20-05-2021 11:46PM

Zzippy wrote: »

Those were pre-season games. Connacht rely heavily on matchday revenue, and season ticket sales are based on regular season games being held in the Sportsground.

I think the bigger picture, even in terms of revenue, is to get new fans or reinvigorate those who are jaded. A game in Dubarry for example with 5k covers the potential reduction in season ticket holders prices for getting 23 games instead of 24 (or 5 interpros/European vs 6). In one scenario Connacht potentially gain more fans and that will lead to increased merch and attendances.

The only way I see revenue being an issue here is if current season ticket holders would protest, even with a price reduction or transport arrangement, allowing one of the 24 regular/6 larger games be played elsewhere, which would, in many eyes I imagine, cement even more so the Galway vs the rest mentality.

Zzippy wrote: »

Also, correlation =/= causation. You acknowledged those pre-season games came when we qualified for HEC. IMO that had a far bigger impact on the increase in season tickets and attendance.

You're opinion is that it was far greater, but the study ran by the PGB found that the most significant attendance increase was from outside of Galway. I can't recall but it was around the 1800 mark, up from 300-400, with just as many of those noting the outreach such as games outside Galway, as their key reasoning. (Particularly families).

Simply put, we can go around in circles, but I see no evidence, in fact to the contrary, that pulling 1 of the 6 bigger games out of Galway once a year or two to somewhere like Sligo or Athlone, will damage supporter numbers or revenue. It has worked previously for Connacht, and it has worked with others too like Toulon and Biarritz.

Lost Ormond · 21-05-2021 12:45AM

Strand1970 wrote: »

Just curious do you think Connacht would play a game in Sligo if the rovers were to upgrade the showgrounds in a few years. They plan to lenghten the pitch which would also achieve the criteria for rugby.

They may but as others have said it would only ever really be smaller games as it wouldnt be worthwhile across so many reasons to move bigger games. Just like Cork doesnt see interpros, european games of Munsters.

ki wrote: »

Yes it's Connacht Rugby not Galway rugby. Plus Sligo is a major contributor to the local talent pool.

But like in Munster they will be games of lesser significance.

Sligo have been a good contributor to the squad and talent pool but that doesnt mean the set up now or ever has been Galway Rugby not Connacht Rugby.

b.gud wrote: »

It would be great to see games played at other venues around the province to help grow the game, however I'd imagine that at most it would be a pre-season warm-up game. It's worth remembering that Connacht are, at least in theory, still redeveloping the sportsground so they would probably be looking to get as much use, and revenue, out of the redevelopment as possible.

Again to be clear I think it would be great to see games played around the province but not sure if we would see many of them and as Ki said definitely no major ones

How many pro teams use multiple home venues for their main team?
Very few. Munster are one of the few and its really politics and a unique factor that isnt the case here that Cork is the bigger city but doesnt have the main stadium.
Connacht aim to stay playing in the sportsground all through the redevelopment and wont have to move out during the works.
I dont see the benefits of moving games especially league/european games following the redevelopment as it would make zero sense financially

RonnieL wrote: »

Looks like a very exciting proposal for Sligo. I'm sure the Connacht branch would do the market research to determine how best to use it if it were to be built. Do Munster fans think the Thomand/Musgrave approach works? I don't know how having two grounds would impact season ticket sales for example. I assume there would have to be the option of a sportsground ticket, a showgrounds ticket, and an every game ticket?

Munster fans just accept the Thomond/Musgrave approach. Its always been the way with Munster home games that games were split between Limerick and Cork like in old days you would have 1 home interpro in Limerick and if there was a second it would be in Cork. Munsters whole political set up within the branch is also split Limerick/Cork as well.
two grounds certainly would affect season ticket sales, corporate sales with games outside of your biggest market, walk up crowds
Munster do have those split season tickets as well as combined and i dont see Connacht doing it as they wouldnt get as much income IMO by moving these games then if they stayed in Galway and maybe played an odd friendly or maybe 1 league game a year in Sligo.

Strand1970 wrote: »

That should help funding alright having in theory a multi sports venue. Maybe 1 or 2 AIL games might be played there but rovers will be focusing on revenue like concerts and other gigs.

Sligo RFC wouldnt need to move and why would they. moving would lose them €€€ from their own bar, function room etc on match day and they dont need that ground for their games.

siltirocker wrote: »

And it's something that for periods get's lost. I played underage, and again later as an adult for a year with Sligo RFC, and played junior schools with Sligo Grammar and Summerhill. And I found the Sligo disillusionment with Connacht at times was very high. For periods it was arguably Munster territory. Well maybe not that strong in rhetoric, but y'get my point.

I remember going to buy a Connacht jersey in 2008 or 2009, and Elverys, a key Connacht sponsor then, did not have a single piece of Connacht merch in the main shop in the Wine Street Car Park. But a whole section of Munster clobber. Even the progress promoted, maybe not so much with the rugby club, but 100% in the Grammar it was to get to Limerick, not Galway. For a period there the better Sligo lads joined Munster set up not Connacht's. Sean Henry, Niall Kenneally, and Cathal Sheridan come to mind. I think Sheridan even once said in the press a Munster jersey was always the one wanted from Santa.

Now that doesn't seem to be the case at all anymore, but it all stemmed from being felt left behind by Galway. And while that was addressed in the Elwood days, and with Lam certainly, I feel it's taken maybe a slight step back. So I'd 100% encourage games in Showgrounds and Dubarry Park.

Henry, Kenneally ended up with Munster through going to Limerick for third level and being picked up through AIL and it was nothing to do with being left behind by Galway.
Moving games out of Galway doesnt make financial sense.

ClanofLams wrote: »

I think it’s important to generally have one home stadium. But definitely would like to see Sligo used a bit when redeveloped, maybe one big pre season friendly and one interpro a year on a rotating basis if possible would make sense or one European game a season. If they were to move a regular season game, it’s important it’s a significant one and not one seen as a less appealing fixture.

I wouldnt be moving any of your biggest home games and biggest money earners from your main ground. that doesnt make sense

Lost Ormond · 21-05-2021 12:56AM

Strand1970 wrote: »

Yes connacht would be playing away but still in front of connacht fans. It would be a huge PR coup and broaden the fan base. The revenue would have to add up to make it happen so it will never be an interpro game. Its a few years away but there is no harm trying it for a season or 2 and see if it becomes a fixture. The dream game would be vs ulster only being 20 miles away

How much would it really broaden the fan base
Ulster may be 20 miles away but how much of the rugby support in Ulster is that close?
If revenue doesnt add up for an interpro game i dont see how it would add up for the games that are not as well attended in Galway.

siltirocker wrote: »

Meaningless games in sister stadia don't work though. A singular prestige one, across sports, though has always been beneficial.

Connacht even went down that route 10 years ago, with pre-season games, and it was a damp squib. Troy Nathan and Mike Roberts vs Rotherham won't pull in the disenfranchised, marginalised, curious, etc as much as Muldoon and O'Concrete against Ulster!

I am not saying I have thee answer but meaningless pre season games didn't work before. And in cases of using other provincial grounds by other teams around Europe, its always been one of the big ones with a big marketing campaign. Connacht have 6 massive home games a year. Giving 1 a year to Athlone, and then Sligo on a rotation basis will, perhaps, only yield positives.

And look, without sounding too harsh: Galway fans should just deal with it. Connacht represents more than just Galway City. A Galway voice shouldn't be worth more than a Leitrim voice, which I think some fans, unconsciously albeit, think it does.

Connacht would be paying to use these new grounds in Sligo, Rent etc. There is commitments to Galway and Sportsground and losing one of your biggest home games to a venue that isnt much bigger/is smaller isnt really a better option is it?
Its not like welsh sides playing the double header in the millenium or london sides playing games in twickenham etc where they get 2/3/4 times what their ground can hold...
Im not sure how many positives moving your biggest games around will bring.

siltirocker wrote: »

Playing in places like Sligo will lead to an increase in support which will lead to increased revenues. Like it has before. We are not talking about an unknown hypothetical. Those games in Athlone were attended by folk from Carrick to Portumna. Those same people then began setting up buses and trips to Galway regularly. Our average attendance went from 1,800 - 4,500 in only 2 years. (Granted HC had a lot to do with that). The games in Athlone, were highlighted in the PGB surveys, as key to this.

Disillusionment across the province is growing. And some of the comments here support that. Having a game or two in places like Athlone or Sligo will reinforce and grow the fan base, and the amounts travelling down to the Sportsground. This has literally worked before, and IMO there is no reason it won't again.

I get there is opinions one way or another on it why it may or may not work, but towards that, again I'll stress: this has worked before. And could be a good tactic to address the growing distance some fans have.

I really dont see how disillusionment is growing around the province because all the games are in the venue and city that nearly all home games have ever been. If disillusionment is growing its nothing to do with home games solely being in Galway.
And as someone who has worked match days in Sportsground for years i dont see all these numbers from Portumna etc not coming anymore because of any disillusionment with whats in place now....

siltirocker · 21-05-2021 07:34AM

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Im not sure how many positives moving your biggest games around will bring..

One game, not games. And as mentioned before introducing new fans leads to a larger fan base and more revenue. Which would far negate the cost of one game being moved.

Lost Ormond wrote: »

I really dont see how disillusionment is growing around the province because all the games are in the venue and city that nearly all home games have ever been. If disillusionment is growing its nothing to do with home games solely being in Galway.
And as someone who has worked match days in Sportsground for years i dont see all these numbers from Portumna etc not coming anymore because of any disillusionment with whats in place now....

Not the point made. I didn't state this was because of having all the home games in Galway.

I said its a way of addressing disillusionment in the province, as it did before, but i didn't say it was the source.

siltirocker · 21-05-2021 08:31AM

To be honest, without digging deep into too many semantics and particulars (of which I above most am guilty of), the points have been made. Maybe no need for us to continue on it, as I think it will just see a lot of points repeated ad nauseam.

People believe moving a bigger game will negatively effect revenue, and I think it this will be negated by the increase in revenue generated in the intermediate term by that game leading to more fans. Some agree, some disagree. Fair enough.

Has anyone heard of anything on the new signing front?

KBurke85 · 21-05-2021 09:12AM

In relation to matches in Sligo, it could be 6-7 years before the stadium upgrade etc is completed. Lets worry about where to play matches when the time comes.

arsebiscuits1 · 21-05-2021 12:24PM

Mick Kearney finished up at Zebre.

Reckon Connacht would go after him?

Obviously he's not in the same conversation as Roux but he's a good solid pro whose only just 30.

FACECUTTR · 21-05-2021 12:35PM

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Mick Kearney finished up at Zebre.

Reckon Connacht would go after him?

Obviously he's not in the same conversation as Roux but he's a good solid pro whose only just 30.

He's more of a 4 than a 5 and there are lots of those in the squad. You never know though.

FACECUTTR · 25-05-2021 12:49PM

Hoping for a positive injury update today. Bundee is due back this weekend too I believe and hopefully there is good work being done on a 2nd row. Looking forward to the game.

lenny4545 · 25-05-2021 01:26PM

https://www.devonlive.com/sport/rugby/rugby-news/exeter-chiefs-sign-sean-obrien-5454375

Exeter after SOB!

realhorrorshow · 25-05-2021 01:44PM

The mullet earlier this year must have caught their attention. Fair play to him, wasn't on anyone's radar at the start of the season but he has made the most of the game time he's gotten. I'd obviously rather he stayed, but we have 5 good centres and hopefully Jennings to cover in case of another injury crisis, so we should be okay.

KBurke85 · 25-05-2021 01:48PM

Could be a good move for him. Great place to go and develop as a player and in two years time we can look at bringing him back when Bundee's contract is up

Zeugnis · 25-05-2021 03:51PM

FFS, that's all we needed now. At least it's Exeter, a great club with a good culture, where he will continue to grow. But this is bad for the province. Based on this year's performances, I see just three effective centres: Aki. Daly, Farrell. Robb and Arnold just haven't convinced me.

I wonder if Exeter came knocking or if this situation results from Connacht not making an offer and his agent getting his name out in the market? Tp put iytt another way, had Friend been smarter about this, could they have kept him?

arsebiscuits1 · 25-05-2021 04:01PM

It's brand new information to me that he's Conor O'Briens younger brother

realhorrorshow · 25-05-2021 04:04PM

Zeugnis wrote: »

FFS, that's all we needed now. At least it's Exeter, a great club with a good culture, where he will continue to grow. But this is bad for the province. Based on this year's performances, I see just three effective centres: Aki. Daly, Farrell. Robb and Arnold just haven't convinced me.

I wonder if Exeter came knocking or if this situation results from Connacht not making an offer and his agent getting his name out in the market? Tp put iytt another way, had Friend been smarter about this, could they have kept him?

Robb was one of of our better players at the start of last season, coincidentally the only time in his career he got a run of games under his belt. Problem is he's never fit. Arnold is at the very least good enough to be our second choice 13, his injury was very unfortunate, if he had gotten consistent starts week in week out with a solid centre partner like O'Brien did he would likely to have impressed too.

Any agent worth their salt is going to shop their clients around regardless, even just as a negotiating tool.

ShineyShiney · 25-05-2021 04:19PM

5 contracted centres, what ya going to do!!
It's not like we are MunsterðŸ˜‰

connachta · 25-05-2021 07:47PM

Aki back, he'd go straight to 13 with Daly kept to 12 and Arnold 14 IMO
Wootton/Porch again, but BOD 23 instead of Sullivan

Dillane/Thornbury, Murray 19
Boyle/Papa/Butler our most physical backrow + Prendergast impact player

Marms again, slighly faster, useful vs Treviso, Blade 21

Buck/Heff/Finlay, Carty of course

Where's Aungier, would be welcomed And Duggan?

ionadnapóca · 26-05-2021 10:17AM

Buckley deserved at least 1 cap!
Stalwart and underrated.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/0526/1223961-buckleys-journey-from-mascot-to-double-centurion/

salmocab · 26-05-2021 10:32AM

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Buckley deserved at least 1 cap!
Stalwart and underrated.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/0526/1223961-buckleys-journey-from-mascot-to-double-centurion/

Surprised he never picked one up on a summer tour or an autumn international.

freyners · 26-05-2021 11:17AM

The year we won the pro12 he was in line to be selected for the squad for either the November internationals or six Nations and he got one if the most Ill times injuries imaginable. I remember Schmidt at the time specifically named dropped him as someone who had missed out. He then go injured again that season in the run up to the final and missed being in the window for the sa tour and that coincided with Healy returning to form around then after a drop and Ireland having two genuine world class LHS in McGrath and Healy at that time for the next two years

Some achievement by the lad. 30/31 is young in propping terms so he could easily see 250 and beyond. Remarkable how much better our scrum was when he and Finlay came on. There's still an outside shot of a cap for him.

connachta · 26-05-2021 11:40AM

He hasn't had his best season, and has very very few chance to be in for RWC squad.
I'm honest on an Ireland POV it's not wise to give him a cap for the symbol

Daly (ahead of McCloskey), Thornbury (instead of Roux), Boyle (for O'Mahony/Conan), there, have an outside chance for 2023, and should be tried, rather than Denis.. As much as I like him, really

ClanofLams · 26-05-2021 01:08PM

I thought Buckley had his best 40 minutes all year against Munster, solidified the scrum obviously but also won crucial penalty when Munster were yards from the line.

Sorry to see Sean O’Brien moving, had a good few months, five centres sounds sufficient but when you factor in how little Aki will be available between Lions & Ireland, the injury issues other players have, it leaves Connacht really short. Hopefully Jennings is ready because very likely to need him.

Fair play to Luke Carty being included in USA 41 man squad for summer tests. Haven’t seen much of him over there but saw some highlights where he was coming on for Matt Giteau. Playing with Giteau and Ashley Cooper, living in Los Angeles, only lost once so far all season & now possibly en route to becoming international, not a bad way to bounce back from being released from academy!

Wegians89 · 27-05-2021 09:14AM

Something like this for the weekend?

Buckley Heff Bealham
Thornbury Murray
Prendergast papalii Butler
Blade Carty
Bundee Arnold
Wootton mcnulty Sullivan

DTM McAllister McCoy Dillane Boyle Reilly Fitz Bod

If Boyle isn’t fit go with one of the mastersons on the bench. Daly’s be porch could do with a week off.

freyners · 27-05-2021 10:59AM

Wegians89 wrote: »

Something like this for the weekend?

Buckley Heff Bealham
Thornbury Murray
Prendergast papalii Butler
Blade Carty
Bundee Arnold
Wootton mcnulty Sullivan

DTM McAllister McCoy Dillane Boyle Reilly Fitz Bod

If Boyle isn’t fit go with one of the mastersons on the bench. Daly’s be porch could do with a week off.

We still have an outside shot of qualifying for the final so I would start Daly and Porch, there's been enough of a break in these games I wouldn't be overly worried about minutes unless they are carrying knocks.

Also call me mad but I would start Fitz over Carty, hes well on form (although the gap between the two when both are in form is still pretty wide on my viewing) and also he seems to play better in games he starts rather than as a sub.

Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

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