BusConnects Lucan

Kurooi · 18-05-2021 11:53pm #1

I'm struggling to understand what the plans are.... Could somebody dumb it down for me??? Say I was traveling from Grange Manor , it looks like I'd get a C1 or C2, which go through Lucan then into the bus corridor both heading into the city? I don't need to switch buses ?

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-bus-revamp-heres-what-14859455
https://busconnects.ie/maps/

But then I'm also looking at where that corridor ends and it's Stoneybatter, Lucan map on this:
https://busconnects.ie/maps/

The route can't cut there right? On a big PDF map it goes further off into IFSC

https://busconnects.ie/media/1753/revised-network-map.pdf

Graham · 19-05-2021 12:25am

Mod Note

Moved from accommodation & property forum.

Citrus_8 · 19-05-2021 8:06am

Kurooi wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand what the plans are.... Could somebody dumb it down for me??? Say I was traveling from Grange Manor , it looks like I'd get a C1 or C2, which go through Lucan then into the bus corridor both heading into the city? I don't need to switch buses ?

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-bus-revamp-heres-what-14859455
https://busconnects.ie/maps/

But then I'm also looking at where that corridor ends and it's Stoneybatter, Lucan map on this:
https://busconnects.ie/maps/

The route can't cut there right? On a big PDF map it goes further off into IFSC

https://busconnects.ie/media/1753/revised-network-map.pdf

Unbelievable, that some people still don't understand this, but I guess it a part of NTA's fault of not educating well. This type of main routes representation as a spine number (in this case, letter) is a specific, but usual in other countries way to show that it's a frequent services spine with all bus routes which belong to the spine. It's all explained in the report somewhere at the first pages.

C1, C2 routes join with C3 and C4 into one spine which is represented as C spine but actually is 4 routes: C1, C2, C3 and C4. So no, you won't need to change buses in the middle of the spine if any of these buses belong to that spine and the spine continues along the line of the spine.

tom1ie · 19-05-2021 8:10am

Citrus_8 wrote: »

Unbelievable, that some people still don't understand this, but I guess it a part of NTA's fault of not educating well. This type of main routes representation as a spine number (in this case, letter) is a specific, but usual in other countries way to show that it's a frequent services spine with all bus routes which belong to the spine. It's all explained in the report somewhere at the first pages.

C1, C2 routes join with C3 and C4 into one spine which is represented as C spine but actually is 4 routes: C1, C2, C3 and C4. So no, you won't need to change busses in the middle of the spine if any of these buses belong to that spine and the spine continues along the line of the spine.

It isn’t really unbelievable that people don’t understand this.
There’s lots of misinformation out there and some people aren’t that interested in bus routes.
I know lots of older people that don’t know how bus connects works.
So not unbelievable.

JPup · 19-05-2021 12:23pm

Agree. Not unbelievable at all. In fact I'd say the majority of Dubliners are only vaguely aware of BusConnects as a concept and have very little idea of the specifics of the plan.

GT89 · 19-05-2021 12:59pm

Kurooi wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand what the plans are.... Could somebody dumb it down for me??? Say I was traveling from Grange Manor , it looks like I'd get a C1 or C2, which go through Lucan then into the bus corridor both heading into the city? I don't need to switch buses ?

Correct you will not need to change buses at all

Citrus_8 · 19-05-2021 1:47pm

tom1ie wrote: »

It isn’t really unbelievable that people don’t understand this.
There’s lots of misinformation out there and some people aren’t that interested in bus routes.
I know lots of older people that don’t know how bus connects works.
So not unbelievable.

I'm wondering that it could be because media and news give very little attention to public transport? And even if so, there is too much of negative "news", especially Busconnects. Maybe you're right, if Irish journalists are too lazy to read and learn before spreading misinformation, possibly readers blindly believe all what's written and said on TV. I remember the Irish Times or Independent spread the word that everyone will need to change from, eg. C1 to C to go to town. Just a pure example of incompetence, laziness and lack of responsibility in the Irish journalism. When any professional journalist wouldn't never ever assume - they would read and educate themselves before writing and article. There's a long Busconnects document where everything is explained.

So maybe... if the journalists with a degree unable to read and understand the reports and explanations, accordingly the population get confused.

Your question is valid regarding the above, but I'm shocked how people don't understand the fundamentals of public transportation, there's no logical understanding beneath.

dfx- · 19-05-2021 5:36pm

Citrus_8 wrote: »

Unbelievable, that some people still don't understand this, but I guess it a part of NTA's fault of not educating well. This type of main routes representation as a spine number (in this case, letter) is a specific, but usual in other countries way to show that it's a frequent services spine with all bus routes which belong to the spine. It's all explained in the report somewhere at the first pages.

C1, C2 routes join with C3 and C4 into one spine which is represented as C spine but actually is 4 routes: C1, C2, C3 and C4. So no, you won't need to change buses in the middle of the spine if any of these buses belong to that spine and the spine continues along the line of the spine.

It's the same idea as 25s 66s and 67s now and for spine read corridor now. They travel in the same corridor or spine, then they fan out to particular directions.

The big idea is that letters are better than numbers.

donvito99 · 19-05-2021 5:53pm

Any media coverage of public transport is always based on a negative conceit which is bizarre seeing as most projects will clearly amount to a general improvement given the investment being made and the planning involved/attention given to what is a big social issue.

I had to laugh at the news the other night, John Kilraine reported on a spat between residents and the city council on what was said in relation to the planned installation of proper cycle lanes on Griffith Avenue. The barristers are getting involved again so as to prevent the removal of a lane of general traffic. Discussion on clear benefits of a cycle lane to congestion? Zero.

tom1ie · 19-05-2021 10:22pm

Citrus_8 wrote: »

I'm wondering that it could be because media and news give very little attention to public transport? And even if so, there is too much of negative "news", especially Busconnects. Maybe you're right, if Irish journalists are too lazy to read and learn before spreading misinformation, possibly readers blindly believe all what's written and said on TV. I remember the Irish Times or Independent spread the word that everyone will need to change from, eg. C1 to C to go to town. Just a pure example of incompetence, laziness and lack of responsibility in the Irish journalism. When any professional journalist wouldn't never ever assume - they would read and educate themselves before writing and article. There's a long Busconnects document where everything is explained.

So maybe... if the journalists with a degree unable to read and understand the reports and explanations, accordingly the population get confused.

Your question is valid regarding the above, but I'm shocked how people don't understand the fundamentals of public transportation, there's no logical understanding beneath.

It's mainly because people aren't logical and don't want to have to think about how they will arrive at their destination.
It's crazy but it's what the NTA have to deal with.

What the NTA have been poor at is calling out the lazy journalism and pointing out where the journos are spreading misinformation.

tom1ie · 19-05-2021 10:26pm

donvito99 wrote: »

Any media coverage of public transport is always based on a negative conceit which is bizarre seeing as most projects will clearly amount to a general improvement given the investment being made and the planning involved/attention given to what is a big social issue.

I had to laugh at the news the other night, John Kilraine reported on a spat between residents and the city council on what was said in relation to the planned installation of proper cycle lanes on Griffith Avenue. The barristers are getting involved again so as to prevent the removal of a lane of general traffic. Discussion on clear benefits of a cycle lane to congestion? Zero.

Is that not the remit of the NTA or the council to be publicly stating the benefits of these cycle lanes to anyone who will listen?
The nimbys will be ranting and raving so we need the transport/council bodies bombarding the public with the positives.
I just don't think they do well in this regard.

donvito99 · 19-05-2021 10:37pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Is that not the remit of the NTA or the council to be publicly stating the benefits of these cycle lanes to anyone who will listen?
The nimbys will be ranting and raving so we need the transport/council bodies bombarding the public with the positives.
I just don't think they do well in this regard.

I think the NTA could do better but the media - print or otherwise - seem to be required to lead with the fact that the government proposes to make an omelette and that admittedly hungry residents are outraged that eggs in their area might have to be broken.

I don't recall ever seeing a TV news report that had 10 seconds even of "the NTA say X project will carry Y million more people in z% of the time." It is always "the NTA proposes to remove a general lane of traffic and install a cycle lane which residents and this chippy councillor say will cause traffic chaos/cataclysm/catastrophe. Back to you in the studio."

Prime Times piece on MetroLink was broadcast live from Na Fianna CLG who were to be affected under the original proposals, would have resulted in a pitch out of action for a number of years. A critical piece of national infrastructure that could only be considered through the prism of a GAA pitch.

It's a wonder really how any house, road or railway has ever been built in this country.

tom1ie · 19-05-2021 10:53pm

donvito99 wrote: »

I think the NTA could do better but the media - print or otherwise - seem to be required to lead with the fact that the government proposes to make an omelette and that admittedly hungry residents are outraged that eggs in their area might have to be broken.

I don't recall ever seeing a TV news report that had 10 seconds even of "the NTA say X project will carry Y million more people in z% of the time." It is always "the NTA proposes to remove a general lane of traffic and install a cycle lane which residents and this chippy councillor say will cause traffic chaos/cataclysm/catastrophe. Back to you in the studio."

Prime Times piece on MetroLink was broadcast live from Na Fianna CLG who were to be affected under the original proposals, would have resulted in a pitch out of action for a number of years. A critical piece of national infrastructure that could only be considered through the prism of a GAA pitch.

It's a wonder really how any house, road or railway has ever been built in this country.

Absolutely agree.
It's incredible how people only think about themselves and not the greater good in this country.
People are all for progress until it has a supposed impact on them.

Citrus_8 · 20-05-2021 8:02am

dfx- wrote: »

It's the same idea as 25s 66s and 67s now and for spine read corridor now. They travel in the same corridor or spine, then they fan out to particular directions.

The big idea is that letters are better than numbers.

Exactly. Well, I agree, not much of a change on the Dublin West spine. But routes varies more in the other parts of the city. I actually love the spines idea - it's very handy for those who live in areas with many routes. The numbering with an associated letter makes it so much easier to navigate.

Kurooi · 20-05-2021 1:46pm

I'm not sure why this was assumed to be criticism of NTA or the change to the network. I'm just trying to understand how it will impact my own journey. I read a few articles and coverage but they either fail to provide tangible information (a map) or provide poor quality images and weird 3D renditions of the shrubbery around bus stops...

Citrus_8 · 20-05-2021 2:26pm

Kurooi wrote: »

I'm not sure why this was assumed to be criticism of NTA or the change to the network. I'm just trying to understand how it will impact my own journey. I read a few articles and coverage but they either fail to provide tangible information (a map) or provide poor quality images and weird 3D renditions of the shrubbery around bus stops...

Thanks for your feedback

While I'm not related to NTA or any public transport company in Ireland, I was involved in certain processes abroad. And I'd genuinely be interested to know from you, as a passenger, what information are you looking exactly regarding BusConnects?

dfx- · 20-05-2021 7:43pm

Citrus_8 wrote: »

Exactly. Well, I agree, not much of a change on the Dublin West spine. But routes varies more in the other parts of the city. I actually love the spines idea - it's very handy for those who live in areas with many routes. The numbering with an associated letter makes it so much easier to navigate.

Most routes have an artery corridor with routes that fan out. Crumlin Rd, Leeson St/N11, Rathmines/Rathgar, Drumcondra, Howth Rd, Navan Rd, Ballymun, SCR, Kilmainham. What makes that complicated is the duplication caused by the cross city routes - the 27 runs on two, 15, 14, 39A, 13 - all the Network Direct ones.

The real test of Bus Connects is the bus lanes, priority and the feeder routes to meet the advertised service level. That's a test of adapting at short notice, organisation, preparation, taking responsibility and not fobbing it off to operators....which is not the NTAs strong point.

BusConnects Lucan

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