A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

Hamsterchops · 20-05-2021 03:13PM

40km/h would have passed.

30km/h (just 18 mph) was always doomed to failure as it was just too slow for what was proposed. If 40km/h (25 MPH) had been the target it would have passed ✓

Many cars have a cruise control that kicks in @40, hence another reason to have chosen it over & above the rediculously draconian 30 km/h.

Glad it failed to get through, glad it's been put to sleep, and glad common sense prevailed..

Seth Brundle · 20-05-2021 03:20PM

85603 wrote: »

What about the increased risk of fatal accidents involving these non-motorists, surely that must take precedence.
Cycling in areas with consistent hgv traffic is very foolish.

I cycle but I also drive.
So am I a "non-motorist" or not?

Larbre34 · 20-05-2021 03:21PM

ronoc wrote: »

It isn't the end of it don't worry. As another poster pointed out the foundations of infrastructure planning have shifted. No longer is the priority getting the motor vehicle through the city as quick as possible at the expense of everyone else.
Change won't happen over night but it's coming!

Been hearing that for 24 years in professional planning and design, seen DTO and NTA vision strategies come and go.

20-05-2021 03:31PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I cycle but I also drive.
So am I a "non-motorist" or not?

When youre in a motor vehicle youre a motorist.

When youre on a bicycle youre a cyclist.

Seth Brundle · 20-05-2021 03:34PM

85603 wrote: »

When youre in a motor vehicle youre a motorist.

When youre on a bicycle youre a cyclist.

But when do I become (to use your term) a non-motorist.
Just because I'm not driving doesn't mean I'm not a motorist.

I'm happy to continue with the futile terminology questions as long as you continue with the immature suggestions for road users.

20-05-2021 03:51PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

But when do I become (to use your term) a non-motorist.
Just because I'm not driving doesn't mean I'm not a motorist.

I'm happy to continue with the futile terminology questions as long as you continue with the immature suggestions for road users.

When youre using the road, but not using a motor vehicle youre I suppose that would constitute your being a non-motorist.

Everything Ive said here has been reasonable.
Roads are primarily made for motorists, and for the economy.

It is foolish to cycle in areas with regular hgv traffic, or heavy traffic.

Chips Lovell · 20-05-2021 04:17PM

85603 wrote: »

It is foolish to cycle in areas with regular hgv traffic, or heavy traffic.

Road death and accident statistics don't agree with you there chief. You are more likely to get injured gardening than cycling.

cnocbui · 20-05-2021 04:21PM

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Road death and accident statistics don't agree with you there chief. You are more likely to get injured gardening than cycling.

How many gardeners vs how many cyclists were in that in depth study?

Cycling is safer than gardening, former Olympic gold medallist Chris Boardman said today... Boardman said: “Statistically it’s safer to cycle than to garden. More people are injured gardening than cycling.”

20-05-2021 04:27PM

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Road death and accident statistics don't agree with you there chief. You are more likely to get injured gardening than cycling.

Youre even less likely if you keep away.

But hey, go ahead. Everyone is subject to some level of regulation and compromise, except for sacred cyclist.

ALL of the rights, NONE of the responsibilities.

Chips Lovell · 20-05-2021 04:30PM

85603 wrote: »

You're even less likely if you keep away.

You could say that about anything really. Don't get up a ladder, don't drive a car, don't drink alcohol.

Thelonious Monk · 20-05-2021 05:12PM

85603 wrote: »

Youre even less likely if you keep away.

But hey, go ahead. Everyone is subject to some level of regulation and compromise, except for sacred cyclist.

ALL of the rights, NONE of the responsibilities.

Not sure what responsibilities cyclists should have, but if you use your brain to think about it for a minute - bikes are good for society, and don't harm anyone, the opposite in fact. Any campaign to try and persecute them would be wrong on so many levels, that's why it doesn't happen.
The Garda aren't going to be out looking to crack down on cyclists breaking red lights or holding you up for 30 seconds here and there - get over it.

20-05-2021 05:18PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Not sure what responsibilities cyclists should have, but if you use your brain to think about it for a minute - bikes are good for society, and don't harm anyone, the opposite in fact. Any campaign to try and persecute them would be wrong on so many levels, that's why it doesn't happen.
The Garda aren't going to be out looking to crack down on cyclists breaking red lights or holding you up for 30 seconds here and there - get over it.

Over what?

Thelonious Monk · 20-05-2021 05:26PM

85603 wrote: »

Over what?

You seem pretty annoyed that cyclists are out there on the roads, I suggest you just learn to live with it in peace x

20-05-2021 06:15PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You seem pretty annoyed that cyclists are out there on the roads, I suggest you just learn to live with it in peace x

I'm alright jack. I try to offer some objectivity but cyclists tend to be a cranky lot and it quickly descends to rhetoric, they're perpetually ready to be offended.

Thats why you have to go in dry, if you try to softly softly they'll just start playing games and eventually find offense. So facts up front.
Cyclists are de facto second class road users, and exist in a world designed for the motorist.
Dont believe me? have a look around. You need a roundabout that big? or a 100kmph limit sign? Why can all the bridges carry the weight of many tonnes of metal. None of its for you. Who's it all for?

If you can be honest and unemotional, and accept the objective reality it will alleviate much cycling related frustration. Dont shoot the messenger.

Dick Turnip · 20-05-2021 06:38PM

85603 wrote: »

I'm alright jack. I try to offer some objectivity but cyclists tend to be a cranky lot and it quickly descends to rhetoric, they're perpetually ready to be offended.

Thats why you have to go in dry, if you try to softly softly they'll just start playing games and eventually find offense. So facts up front.
Cyclists are de facto second class road users, and exist in a world designed for the motorist.
Dont believe me? have a look around. You need a roundabout that big? or a 100kmph limit sign? Why can all the bridges carry the weight of many tonnes of metal. None of its for you. Who's it all for?

If you can be honest and unemotional, and accept the objective reality it will alleviate much cycling related frustration. Dont shoot the messenger.

A very strange flex that :pac:

Chips Lovell · 20-05-2021 06:45PM

85603 wrote: »

...accept the objective reality....

Think you're the one creating the alternative reality there by making baseless assertions about cycling being dangerous and cyclists not belonging on the road. Squeeze in a few comments about fat lads in lyrca and I'm sure Joe Duffy will take your call.

20-05-2021 07:02PM

Dick Turnip wrote: »

A very strange flex that :pac:

Try reading it as not a flex.

Dick Turnip · 20-05-2021 08:26PM

85603 wrote: »

So facts up front.
Cyclists are de facto second class road users, and exist in a world designed for the motorist.
Dont believe me? have a look around. You need a roundabout that big? or a 100kmph limit sign? Why can all the bridges carry the weight of many tonnes of metal. None of its for you. Who's it all for?

You're dead right - I couldn't have written a better call for more cycling infrastructure & facilities myself.

AndrewJRenko · 21-05-2021 10:05PM

85603 wrote: »

Youre even less likely if you keep away.

But hey, go ahead. Everyone is subject to some level of regulation and compromise, except for sacred cyclist.

ALL of the rights, NONE of the responsibilities.

No regulation, no responsibilities eh?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-5-000-on-the-spot-fines-issued-to-cyclists-1.3977141

What level of regulation are the 98% of motorists that break urban speed limits subject to?

21-05-2021 10:14PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No regulation, no responsibilities eh?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-5-000-on-the-spot-fines-issued-to-cyclists-1.3977141

What level of regulation are the 98% of motorists that break urban speed limits subject to?

Dont worry about motorists. Look at your own flaws and stay out of the way, you menace.

crooked cockney villain · 21-05-2021 11:03PM

Can anybody explain to me how it is possible for a pedestrian or cyclist to be killed by a motorist who is driving at 50km in a responsible manner on a large wide stretch of road, say Fairview for example?

Anybody?

Because any near misses I see tend to be idiots who either

a- can't be bothered looking before crossing

b- look before crossing and don't continue looking, grown adults who think traffic conditions stay the same for the whole time between leaving one side of the road and getting to the other

Can anybody link me to an article where this has actually occurred?

I fail to see why motorists should be penalised to protect adults who are unable to follow the safe cross code, a rhyme that educators have decided is within the cognitive reasoning of the average five year old to be taught.

CramCycle · 21-05-2021 11:29PM

85603 wrote: »

Dont worry about motorists. Look at your own flaws and stay out of the way, you menace.

100% agree, clean up your own house (ful of people you have nothing in common with bar your mode of transport) before passing comment on other groups. As a pedestrian, motorist and cyclist I can cast shade on everyone here but if you are not in a group, clean up your own house first. If you drive but don't cycle, don't comment on it unless you stop every motorist who runs a red or speeds or uses a mobile while driving. If you cycle but don't drive, don't pass comment until every cyclist you see stops annoying people. As for pedestrians, you may as well give up now, just shut your mouth.

Pinch Flat · 21-05-2021 11:34PM

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

Can anybody explain to me how it is possible for a pedestrian or cyclist to be killed by a motorist who is driving at 50km in a responsible manner on a large wide stretch of road, say Fairview for example?

Anybody?

Because any near misses I see tend to be idiots who either

a- can't be bothered looking before crossing

b- look before crossing and don't continue looking, grown adults who think traffic conditions stay the same for the whole time between leaving one side of the road and getting to the other

Can anybody link me to an article where this has actually occurred?

I fail to see why motorists should be penalised to protect adults who are unable to follow the safe cross code, a rhyme that educators have decided is within the cognitive reasoning of the average five year old to be taught.

I'll bite.

You're driving a one tonne plus vehicle and you have a duty of care to other more vulnerable road users like cyclists and pedestrians, both who will come off much worse than you in your metal box should you both collide.

What's difficult to understand about this?

Seth Brundle · 22-05-2021 12:15AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I'll bite.

You're driving a one tonne plus vehicle and you have a duty of care to other more vulnerable road users like cyclists and pedestrians, both who will come off much worse than you in your metal box should you both collide.

What's difficult to understand about this?

I assume that what crooked cockney villain means is that surely isnt fair to expect a driver on a six lane carriageway to expect vulnerable road users there as road are only for drivers (they do pay "road tax") and sure the drivers who speed along there shouldn't be responsible for hitting anyone who needs to cross the road as it is quite wide despite the good visibility.

AndrewJRenko · 22-05-2021 12:46AM

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

Can anybody explain to me how it is possible for a pedestrian or cyclist to be killed by a motorist who is driving at 50km in a responsible manner on a large wide stretch of road, say Fairview for example?

Anybody?

Because any near misses I see tend to be idiots who either

a- can't be bothered looking before crossing

b- look before crossing and don't continue looking, grown adults who think traffic conditions stay the same for the whole time between leaving one side of the road and getting to the other

Can anybody link me to an article where this has actually occurred?

I fail to see why motorists should be penalised to protect adults who are unable to follow the safe cross code, a rhyme that educators have decided is within the cognitive reasoning of the average five year old to be taught.

Would you like to explain how the majority of road deaths are motorists killing other motorists and passengers?

AndrewJRenko · 22-05-2021 12:49AM

85603 wrote: »

Dont worry about motorists. Look at your own flaws and stay out of the way, you menace.

I am a motorist though. Of course I'm going to be worried by the idiot drivers I see all around me speeding, phoning, texting...

punisher5112 · 22-05-2021 01:30AM

Has anyone actually tried to do 30kp/h down lesson st, it is 4 lanes wide and straight .....

AndrewJRenko · 22-05-2021 04:08AM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Has anyone actually tried to do 30kp/h down lesson st, it is 4 lanes wide and straight .....

What has the width or number of lanes got to do with ability to travel at speed?

There were many times driving on Leeson St when I'd have been absolutely delighted to get my speed up to 30 kmph instead of crawling in traffic.

Pinch Flat · 22-05-2021 08:01AM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Has anyone actually tried to do 30kp/h down lesson st, it is 4 lanes wide and straight .....

Yep. No problem. You'll be undertaken / overtaken/ tailgated though. Sure don't you know it's considered rude to drive at any speed limit in Ireland?

View · 22-05-2021 10:05AM

85603 wrote: »

I'm alright jack. I try to offer some objectivity but cyclists tend to be a cranky lot and it quickly descends to rhetoric, they're perpetually ready to be offended.

Thats why you have to go in dry, if you try to softly softly they'll just start playing games and eventually find offense. So facts up front.
Cyclists are de facto second class road users, and exist in a world designed for the motorist.
Dont believe me? have a look around. You need a roundabout that big? or a 100kmph limit sign? Why can all the bridges carry the weight of many tonnes of metal. None of its for you. Who's it all for?

If you can be honest and unemotional, and accept the objective reality it will alleviate much cycling related frustration. Dont shoot the messenger.

The overwhelming majority of the roads in the country were designed for horses and carts, not motorists. There was no need for (almost?) all of the rules of the roads, road signs etc until motorists arrived and started “elbowing” other road users out of their way.

A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

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