Why old people were always "Green".

whisky_galore · 19-05-2021 7:05pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Ireland was the first country to charge for plastic bags I believe and there was uproar.

I don't recall any protests over this?

Now we buy ourselves a so-called bag for life, which is still, by and large, plastic so we can feel good about ourselves.
They still end up dumped at recycling areas full of recycling people can't be bothered bringing home with them when they find the bins full....

19-05-2021 7:23pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

I don't recall any protests over this?

You don't sound too happy.

Now we buy ourselves a so-called bag for life, which is still, by and large, plastic so we can feel good about ourselves.
They still end up dumped at recycling areas full of recycling people can't be bothered bringing home with them when they find the bins full....

Well it could be a bag for life if people took care of it. And most are cloth of some kind.

19-05-2021 7:40pm

The original post is very ok boomer isn't it? Its all over the place regarding eras.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have a lift in every supermarket, shop and office building.

Nor do we. I walk up the stairs to work and in my apartment. How many shops have lifts? Lifts existed pre WWII anyway.

We walked to the local shop and didn't climb into a 300 horse power machine every time we had to go half a mile.

Most people don't take a car for half a mile.

Back then, we washed the baby's Terry Toweling nappies because we didn't have the throw away kind.

First disposable nappy was in 1942. That said they are a big problem.

We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy-gobbling machine burning up 3 kilowatts — wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days. Kids had hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing.

Washing machines probably goes back to the 50s anyway in terms of popularity and the first ever were in the 19C. I did get hand me downs though. I'm early 40s.

Back then, we had one radio or TV in the house - not a TV in every room and the TV had a small screen the size of a big handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of Arran In the kitchen.

That TV almost certainly was more of a carbon cost than a modern one.

We blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.

I mean people still do but those electric machines are also older than a century. ( i.e. The first mixer with electric motor is thought to be the one invented by American Rufus Eastman in 1885. U.S. Patent 330,829)

Its all over the place.

Padre_Pio · 19-05-2021 7:41pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

I don't recall any protests over this?

Now we buy ourselves a so-called bag for life, which is still, by and large, plastic so we can feel good about ourselves.
They still end up dumped at recycling areas full of recycling people can't be bothered bringing home with them when they find the bins full....

There wasn't protest. There was uproar. Same in the UK in 2015.

But we did it, and people would agree now it's a good thing.

parkman6551 · 19-05-2021 9:00pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

There wasn't protest. There was uproar. Same in the UK in 2015.

But we did it, and people would agree now it's a good thing.

Interestingly, the shops in the UK seem to get it all wrong. Whenever I went over, and bought something in, for instance M&S, you would have it put in a PAPER bag and be charged 10p automatically. But you couldn't have a plastic bag either !

Parkman.

magicbastarder · 19-05-2021 10:20pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Now we buy ourselves a so-called bag for life, which is still, by and large, plastic so we can feel good about ourselves.
They still end up dumped at recycling areas full of recycling people can't be bothered bringing home with them when they find the bins full....

it's not that it's plastic that's the key. it's that you don't get 8 free bags when you do your weekly shopping anymore.

speaking of plastic and shopping, i can't be the only person who hates the move to plastic shopping baskets in shops. they usually look manky inside.
though aldi had one a few months ago for sale, so we got one and usually use that when we shop now.

Capt'n Midnight · 20-05-2021 12:28am

fvp4 wrote: »

That TV almost certainly was more of a carbon cost than a modern one.

Flat screen power usage has remained neutral because newer models are more efficient but that's offset by bigger sizes.#

Tip - don't get too hung up on SMART TV's they are insecure and rarely patched. Get an external box - from something like a Chromcast to a combo Linux satellite receiver with all the apps.

CRT's and Plasma run hot all right.

hirondelle · 20-05-2021 9:33am

Swindled wrote: »

I get it, we can only outsource our jobs and industry to China, but we can't expect them to do anything environmentally, or the poor Chinese billionaires to pay any carbon taxes. After the US, China is the second largest consumer of luxury goods in the world.

Did you miss the bit where I mentioned the growing Chinese middle class and said "it is a shared responsibility"?

20-05-2021 9:40am

hirondelle wrote: »

Did you miss the bit where I mentioned the growing Chinese middle class and said "it is a shared responsibility"?

do you deduct the cost of carbon from western exports on a per country basis?

That would reduce Ireland’s carbon emissions a lot. We would have to work out the carbon cost of export businesses, across their use of electricity, fuel and transport. Including services.

For instance a lot of the data centre cost would be attributed to the rest of the EU.

20-05-2021 9:45am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Flat screen power usage has remained neutral because newer models are more efficient but that's offset by bigger sizes.#

Tip - don't get too hung up on SMART TV's they are insecure and rarely patched. Get an external box - from something like a Chromcast to a combo Linux satellite receiver with all the apps.

CRT's and Plasma run hot all right.

Yes, I was replying to the op and the tiny little CRT box from 1950 or so. Probably more carbon expensive than a modern TV.

The other way of saying what you said about the smart TVs is that getting a bigger one has no carbon effects. Win.

hirondelle · 20-05-2021 9:46am

fvp4 wrote: »

do you deduct the cost of carbon from western exports on a per country basis?

That would reduce Ireland’s carbon emissions a lot. We would have to work out the carbon cost of export businesses, across their use of electricity, fuel and transport. Including services.

For instance a lot of the data centre cost would be attributed to the rest of the EU.

The specifics do need to be worked out for accurate carbon budgeting, I was just making the point that it is too simplistic to say the the country that produces the goods is solely responsible for the emissions caused in the manufacturing process.

20-05-2021 9:52am

hirondelle wrote: »

The specifics do need to be worked out for accurate carbon budgeting, I was just making the point that it is too simplistic to say the the country that produces the goods is solely responsible for the emissions caused in the manufacturing process.

So, no then? Because as I said until now the west was blamed for its manufacturing carbon costs, and historical manufacturing carbon costs.

Also if we want to get to zero carbon in Europe but exports are charged to consumer countries, what’s the mechanism. All we can do is ban Chinese exports.

parkman6551 · 21-05-2021 12:37pm

Interestingly enough, I did read that data back-up centres produce very large amounts of CO2, and there are lots of them in Ireland and Europe. I did quite a bit of work in some of them, about ten years ago, and was amazed at the amount of large car batteries that they needed. Thousands of them, in huge banks, all needing huge amounts of mains power to keep them powered up.

I hate to think how much "fossil fuel" needed to be generated to keep all these centres going.

Parkman.

Ubbquittious · 21-05-2021 12:54pm

Blaming old people or young people doesn't help. Nearly all the pollution is caused by the desire to keep money changing hands. A few wealthy men with top hats in the 19th century and early 20th set us on the path we're on now but they're long dead.

hirondelle · 21-05-2021 3:17pm

fvp4 wrote: »

So, no then? Because as I said until now the west was blamed for its manufacturing carbon costs, and historical manufacturing carbon costs.

Also if we want to get to zero carbon in Europe but exports are charged to consumer countries, what’s the mechanism. All we can do is ban Chinese exports.

Did I say no? It will clearly take a fairly complicated balancing procedure in terms of whose budget the carbon goes into because there is a back and forth over where the responsibility lies- hence me saying it wasn't an issue with a simple cause. And yes, the data in the data centres "comes from people elsewhere.
The alternative to this is what exactly? Throw our hands up and say we are doomed, or just carry on and hope?

Ubbquittious · 21-05-2021 3:26pm

hirondelle wrote: »

Did I say no? It will clearly take a fairly complicated balancing procedure in terms of whose budget the carbon goes into because there is a back and forth over where the responsibility lies- hence me saying it wasn't an issue with a simple cause. And yes, the data in the data centres "comes from people elsewhere.
The alternative to this is what exactly? Throw our hands up and say we are doomed, or just carry on and hope?

I think we should all become hippies and live off the grid in the mountains. They are way happier, have much more craic, aren't trapped in the rat race of modern world and the few miles they drive their VW camper vans won't have an impact on the climate and can probably be done using bio fuels.

The modern world is a load of sh1t. Spend 30 years to pay for a brick box, 3-5k in uTility bills, property tax. Then every 10 years or so things start looking "dated" and need to be replaced. Products should be designed to be infinitely repairable. These days you have people running around like fools just trying to hold on to what they have.

Everything is gone ridiculously expensive and at every turn you have people demanding money off you for doing nothing. Cutting off all ties with China would be a good idea, we'd have to go back to focusing on the necessities and do away with most of the consumerist nonsense

hirondelle · 21-05-2021 3:33pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I think we should all become hippies and live off the grid in the mountains. They are way happier, have much more craic, aren't trapped in the rat race of modern world and the few miles they drive their VW camper vans won't have an impact on the climate and can probably be done using bio fuels.

The modern world is a load of sh1t. Spend 30 years to pay for a brick box, 3-5k in uTility bills, property tax. Then every 10 years or so things start looking "dated" and need to be replaced. Products should be designed to be infinitely repairable. These days you have people running around like fools just trying to hold on to what they have.

Everything is gone ridiculously expensive and at every turn you have people demanding money off you for doing nothing. Cutting off all ties with China would be a good idea, we'd have to go back to focusing on the necessities and do away with most of the consumerist nonsense

I'm not a Chinese trade attache! I think the particular source country is irrelevant, Britain once prided itself on being the Workshop of the World, China now has that tag, and once the global economic drivers bring up the QOL expectations of Asia, Africa will presumably become the next global manufacturing hub. The root of the problem is the consumerism nonsense as you say- but I fundamentally disagree that closing off the current source of cheap labour will do a thing to change that.

Why old people were always "Green".

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