Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

suicide_circus · 12-05-2021 03:44PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I don't have strong feelings either way on the antigen tests, but "self-administered tests aren't accurate" sounds an awful lot like last year's "people won't use masks properly".

NPHET have form for advising against things that could help because they aren't perfect.

Ask an accountant if the tax system should be simplified so business people could safely file their own returns. Or a solicitor the same of the legal system. Professional cabals never want the the great unwashed to be able to do without them in navigating the rarefied mysteries of their art.

Boggles · 12-05-2021 03:44PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Europe but Media/NPHET/Government will swerve it in a way saying 'we were right'

Outdoor hospitality should be opening here sooner and going well Indoor in June.

It's pure cowardess by the government and me thinks the delay in the guidelines for Hospitality been released is so there won't be an excuse for early opening

Do you think England and the Tories are cowards?

12-05-2021 03:46PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Vaccines.

Factors like people having a much more positive outlook on life and probably not obsessing endlessly over covid, plus they don’t want to nuke their economy, good for them! Could do with way more of that open mindedness and outward thinking here.

niallo27 · 12-05-2021 03:52PM

Boggles wrote: »

Straight question.

England will have roughly 70% first dosed by they time they open indoor hospitality next week.

More or less what we are aiming for by July.

Do you think at this stage of the pandemic, with vaccine supply ramping up and going into arms that we should follow what the UK are doing?

Or should we get overly contrary over a few odd weeks whilst other countries in Europe are taking more risky punts?

So if we reached 70% you would be happy to open indoor, what about allowances for having being in level 5 lockdown for 5 of the last 6 months. Im not saying follow England now, I am saying in June indoor should be open like the rest of Europe, its hardly a risky punt when the vulnerable have been vaccinated. You cant live your life terrified of what ifs

Boggles · 12-05-2021 04:03PM

niallo27 wrote: »

So if we reached 70% you would be happy to open indoor, what about allowances for having being in level 5 lockdown for 5 of the last 6 months. Im not saying follow England now, I am saying in June indoor should be open like the rest of Europe, its hardly a risky punt when the vulnerable have been vaccinated. You cant live your life terrified of what ifs

So we shouldn't follow vaccine data and outcomes, we should do what Europe are doing just cause?

There is currently just shy of 5000 people in ICU in France and they are ahead of us in their roll out.

There is currently 1108 in hospital in the UK.

I don't think you need to be a scientist to figure out which path to go down TBH.

ArthurDayne · 12-05-2021 04:06PM

Boggles wrote: »

Straight question.

England will have roughly 70% first dosed by they time they open indoor hospitality next week.

More or less what we are aiming for by July.

Do you think at this stage of the pandemic, with vaccine supply ramping up and going into arms that we should follow what the UK are doing?

Or should we get overly contrary over a few odd weeks whilst other countries in Europe are taking more risky punts?

If indoor dining and drinking were opened this weekend would our health service be able to cope, yes or no ?

niallo27 · 12-05-2021 04:07PM

Boggles wrote: »

So we shouldn't follow vaccine data and outcomes, we should do what Europe are doing just cause?

There is currently just shy of 5000 people in ICU in France and they are ahead of us in their roll out.

There is currently 1108 in hospital in the UK.

I don't think you need to be a scientist to figure out which path to go down TBH.

Lets follow vaccine data so, if we reach 70% do you think we should open indoor dining like the UK, why do we always look at the worst possible outcomes, why always pick the worst country. Do you not think the fact our ICU numbers are so low allow us some give in our opening dates as well.

Boggles · 12-05-2021 04:10PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Lets follow vaccine data so, if we reach 70% do you think we should open indoor dining like the UK, why do we always look at the worst possible outcomes, why always pick the worst country. Do you not think the fact our ICU numbers are so low allow us some give in our opening dates as well.

Who is picking the worst country?

We share an island with the UK.

They are 7ish weeks ahead of us in their roll out.

Would be dangerously stupid not to base our reopening on their data.

Boggles · 12-05-2021 04:13PM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

If indoor dining and drinking were opened this weekend would our health service be able to cope, yes or no ?

Arthur I don't and never have responded to demands on yes or no answers.

I have no interest in over simplified debate on someone extremely myopic and narrow terms.

We have decided on these islands to get out of the pandemic by using vaccines.

If anyone has a better idea by all means tap it up, base it on something reassembling reality though please.

niallo27 · 12-05-2021 04:16PM

Boggles wrote: »

Who is picking the worst country?

We share an island with the UK.

They are 7ish weeks ahead of us in their roll out.

Would be dangerously stupid not to base our reopening on their data.

You referenced France in your post, you said the UK are opening up indoor dining with 70% vaccinated, do you think we should open up indoor when we reach 70% as well, possibly 60% when our hospital numbers so low.

average_runner · 12-05-2021 04:16PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Europe but Media/NPHET/Government will swerve it in a way saying 'we were right'

Outdoor hospitality should be opening here sooner and going well Indoor in June.

It's pure cowardess by the government and me thinks the delay in the guidelines for Hospitality been released is so there won't be an excuse for early opening

We are following the UK model. They got it right so far in fairness.

Give me one good bit of evidence not to follow the uk model?

niallo27 · 12-05-2021 04:17PM

Boggles wrote: »

Arthur I don't and never have responded to demands on yes or no answers.

I have no interest in over simplified debate on someone extremely myopic and narrow terms.

We have decided on these islands to get out of the pandemic by using vaccines.

If anyone has a better idea by all means tap it up, base it on something reassembling reality though please.

Vaccines and hospital numbers surely and not just vaccines.

average_runner · 12-05-2021 04:21PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Vaccines and hospital numbers surely and not just vaccines.

Well hospital numbers will be high if no vaccine. So vaccine is the key to all

Boggles · 12-05-2021 04:21PM

niallo27 wrote: »

You referenced France in your post, you said the UK are opening up indoor dining with 70% vaccinated, do you think we should open up indoor when we reach 70% as well, possibly 60% when our hospital numbers so low.

France reopening plan was referenced on thread by others, including you before I mentioned it.

As for hospital numbers being low, I don't think it would take very long for that to change with the current relatively low level of immunity at the moment.

70% of our ICU patient were under 70.

Of course the dynamics of this all change the more vaccines go into arms.

niallo27 · 12-05-2021 04:25PM

Boggles wrote: »

France reopening plan was referenced on thread by others, including you before I mentioned it.

As for hospital numbers being low, I don't think it would take very long for that to change with the current relatively low level of immunity at the moment.

70% of our ICU patient were under 70.

Of course the dynamics of this all change the more vaccines go into arms.

So do you think we should open indoor dining at 70%, as for the ICU patients under 70, these patients have underlying conditions, and vulnerable younger people are being vaccinated now, so that risk should be lessened by a huge factor.

12-05-2021 04:36PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Straight question, if most of Europe has indoor dining at the start of June and we only have outdoor, who do you think is right, us or Europe.

I think indoor dining and pubs could open safely now with table service. I'm not going to lose my sh*t over it though because a) its only going to be a few weeks either way b)I dont have access to all the data and c)like everyone on this thread I am not qualified to make decisions on this matter

Boggles · 12-05-2021 04:37PM

niallo27 wrote: »

So do you think we should open indoor dining at 70%, as for the ICU patients under 70, these patients have underlying conditions, and vulnerable younger people are being vaccinated now, so that risk should be lessened by a huge factor.

I think the pubs should open July 4th.

Would be apt.

Am I going to go hyper contrary over a week or 2? No.

Besides I have got used to outdoor pints the past month or so, they are just nicer for some reason.

The Big Easy · 12-05-2021 04:38PM

b0nk1e wrote: »

Mad that people are still entertaining Boggles.

It's mind-boggling!

Boggles · 12-05-2021 04:39PM

b0nk1e wrote: »

Mad that people are still entertaining Boggles.

The Big Easy wrote: »

It's mind-boggling!

Brilliant.

timmyntc · 12-05-2021 04:40PM

Boggles wrote: »

I think the pubs should open July 4th.

Would be apt.

Am I going to go hyper contrary over a week or 2? No.

Besides I have got used to outdoor pints the past month or so, they are just nicer for some reason.

Why July 4th?

I thought that hard dates were bad, and we should just wait and see and not announce any dates until 2 weeks before? What about following the science not the dates?

Boggles · 12-05-2021 04:41PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Why July 4th?

Why do you think?

I said it would be apt.

PTH2009 · 12-05-2021 04:41PM

At least the UK government's told the people what was needed in terms of numbers/targets etc to relax restrictions

We were told nothing of that sort officially, only 'we will examine the situation on this date and see from there'. No incentive to get sporting/entertainment events back only this 'we might have some trial events in July'

ArthurDayne · 12-05-2021 04:45PM

Boggles wrote: »

Arthur I don't and never have responded to demands on yes or no answers.

I have no interest in over simplified debate on someone extremely myopic and narrow terms.

We have decided on these islands to get out of the pandemic by using vaccines.

If anyone has a better idea by all means tap it up, base it on something reassembling reality though please.

In other words, you don’t know.

So you will argue against opening indoor dining and pubs, without seemingly being able to be either definitive or at least present the compelling mass of evidence that opening these premises would bring about the thing which lockdown measures are aimed at preventing — mass excess death and the inability of healthcare to cope with the effects of Covid.

And of course vaccines are the way out — it doesn’t vitiate the need to have sustainable and proportionate policies in place until such times.

hynesie08 · 12-05-2021 04:45PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

At least the UK government's told the people what was needed in terms of numbers/targets etc to relax restrictions

We were told nothing of that sort officially, only 'we will examine the situation on this date and see from there'. No incentive to get sporting/entertainment events back only this 'we might have some trial events in July'

So what "numbers/targets etc" are needed to reopen nightclubs in the uk?

average_runner · 12-05-2021 04:46PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Is it? I'd have thought hospilatizations were the simplest....we currently have 100 or 200 people in hospital with Covid, we have 11,000 hospital beds.

Simple.

Hospitals are busier now than ever. They are packed.

Boggles · 12-05-2021 04:47PM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

In other words, you don’t know.

So you will argue against opening indoor dining and pubs, without seemingly being able to be either definitive or at least present the compelling mass of evidence that opening these premises would bring about the thing which lockdown measures are aimed at preventing — mass excess death and the inability of healthcare to cope with the effects of Covid.

And of course vaccines are the way out — it doesn’t vitiate the need to have sustainable and proportionate policies in place until such times.

Yes Arthur unlike yourself I don't claim to have all the easy answers without actually offering any.

But again if you know a better way and have data to back it up, by all means tap it out.

12-05-2021 04:56PM

C'mon lads, we've the guts of 11,000 beds lying around empty. Let's fill a few thousand up so we can get our pints in earlier than expected. We cab beat the UK to indoor pints. Let's see who's the laughing stock then.

average_runner · 12-05-2021 04:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

C'mon lads, we've the guts of 11,000 beds lying around empty. Let's fill a few thousand up so we can get our pints in earlier than expected. We cab beat the UK to indoor pints. Let's see who's the laughing stock then.

Where did you see 11,000 beds lying empty?

I was in visiting my dad in the hospital at the weekend, every ward was full.

A&E was so busy he had to wait 90 mins in an ambulance before getting in.

ArthurDayne · 12-05-2021 05:03PM

Boggles wrote: »

Yes Arthur unlike yourself I don't claim to have all the easy answers without actually offering any.

But again if you know a better way and have data to back it up, by all means tap it out.

You keep saying this, you keep saying that I don’t offer any answers. Here’s some I offered a while back that we debated on — ending the distance limits, getting students back to school and getting construction going again. You parroted the cautious approach back then and then just dropped the matters like they never existed. Just like you would if the State made a surprise announcement tomorrow that restaurants could open again this Friday.

Doesn’t it stand to reason that closing schools again, halting construction, and bringing back distance limits would also slow the transmission of Covid? Why shouldn’t we reintroduce these things if slowing Covid is the ultimate goal?

Because — of course— though certain posters on here like to pretend otherwise and dream up whatever justification seems handy ....the stricter end of the restrictions was designed to mitigate the risk of a particular disaster of mass excess death and an incapacitated health service. And so, where particular restrictions are not the difference between that happening and not happening, they should not be in place.

You don’t seem to know what the evidence is, and you don’t seem to be able to answer the question — so I just don’t understand how you argue with such assured confidence.

Silentcorner · 12-05-2021 05:03PM

average_runner wrote: »

Hospitals are busier now than ever. They are packed.

The usual hospitals are having problems, the same one's that are always in crisis....before Covid and now!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings