2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

Bass Reeves wrote:

I think that a bit of an misnomer. I think there is good rewards if you have a bit of get up and go. However if you decide you want an ordinary job and some one else to do the heavy lifting then you are on a hiding to nothing.

Agreed its not all bad, but how many times do you have to repeat the same mistakes.
The few are faciltaed by walking on the backs of the many even when that activity is criminal

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

And then leasing them homes to tenants who of the majority dont work for 50 euro a week.

That too. As a good female friend said to me only a few weeks ago: "I should have got pregnant at 16!"....

Bass Reeves wrote: »

My eldest is in NZ in Wellington. A house there costs around 1 million NZ$ at present that is about 600K euro.......and most are timber frame

Yep, I'm in Auckland and probably about to pay 1.2m for an old ****ty house
Yes they are timber frame, but that is recommended here due to it being slightly flexible for the earthquakes

Looking to buy this one, if people want an example of the quality and cost available
https://www.realestate.co.nz/3998525/residential/sale/47-webster-avenue-mount-roskill

There have been repeated warnings about this not being the appropriate forum for general discussion of welfare rates, welfare recipients and so on. This is the last time it'll be given without sanctions

awec wrote: »

That still doesn't answer the question. Is your argument based on the fact the word "bought" was used? The downling financial article is undated, do you know when it was written?

Varadkar rejects calls to ban residential home investment funds from buying 95% of all new apartments in Ireland as Germany banned the practice completely in 2007 ...

In a report published recently by The Construction Industry Federation (CIF) they have warned that 95% of the apartments built in Ireland in 2019 were purchased by institutions and investors commonly known as “cuckoo funds”.

https://theliberal.ie/varadkar-rejects-calls-to-ban-residential-home-investment-funds-from-buying-95-of-all-new-apartments-in-ireland-as-germany-banned-the-practice-completely-in-2007/

April 28, 2021

awec wrote: »

That's still just repeating what you've already said.

Maybe you're right, not in a position to say otherwise, I was hoping you had found some source that was able to differentiate between the properties they "acquired" that were never intended for public sale at any stage, and those where they swooped in and acquired properties that were supposed to be sold to the public.

For example, off the top of my head I know that Kennedy Wilson built 3 or 4 new blocks of apartments in their Central Park portfolio in Leopardstown in the recent past, these were never at any stage going to be sold to the public and I am curious if these are included in this 95%.

But I think this may be an unreasonable ask on my part.

I think you would have to email CIF and ask for a copy of the report, given that it's the source document. I seem to recall from about a year ago, when the report was first commented on in the media, one outlet broke down the sales, but I haven't stumbled upon it recently. Each article seems to offer a new tantalising tidbit from it; like this:

The CIF report also highlighted that just 4 new homes in every 10 newly built homes in 2019 were ever offered for sale on the open market.

https://theliberal.ie/just-days-after-varadkar-rejects-calls-to-ban-international-residential-home-investment-funds-a-global-investment-fund-buys-to-rent-nearly-all-170-homes-in-new-maynooth-housing-estate/

awec wrote: »

That's still just repeating what you've already said.

Maybe you're right, not in a position to say otherwise, I was hoping you had found some source that was able to differentiate between the properties they "acquired" that were never intended for public sale at any stage, and those where they swooped in and acquired properties that were supposed to be sold to the public.

For example, off the top of my head I know that Kennedy Wilson built 3 or 4 new blocks of apartments in their Central Park portfolio in Leopardstown in the recent past, these were never at any stage going to be sold to the public and I am curious if these are included in this 95%.

But I think this may be an unreasonable ask on my part.

I believe they include Build-To-Rent, and social housing projects.
In Balgriffin/Clongriffin there are over 300 Build-to-Rent apartments completed last year, 150 social housing and around 300 Build-to-Rent apartment to be completed this years. All had contracts signed in 2017/2018 before the ground works commenced.

Cal4567 wrote: »

I think this is a very good question. I don't think it will unless SF drive a sea change through the corridors of power, if they have the mandate by the electorate to do so. Just edging FG and having to be propped up by the Greens and the Soc Dems in a broad coalition, to many wouldn't be a mandate. I sense Mary Lou, Pearse Doherty & Eoin O'Broin etc will have a job on their hands. It's by no means impossible, just not easy.

SF have had a long run in the North . Haven't done much there and the taps of Whitehall have been opened all along. Only had to manage the funds. I dont see how they could anything but a mess in the real world.

Looks like higher inheritance/lower threshold taxes may be firmly on the Government's agenda in the near future with an article in the Irish Times:

"Inheritance: Are we fair in taxation of the fortunate classes?... In 2018, only 0.5 per cent of total tax revenues were sourced from these taxes on average across the countries that levied them, according to the report... In Ireland, the figures are slightly better but not a lot. Last year, the State received €505 million in capital acquisitions tax – the formal name for tax on inheritance and large gifts here."

May be politically unpopular, but the state is going to have to start looking at raising revenues from other sources sooner rather than later as due to the high rents/property prices, the working poor really have nothing left to give. So they're left with just property taxes in some form or other as it's one of the few asset classes that a regular person can't pack up and move to another jurisdiction to avoid paying IMO

Link to article in Irish Times today: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/inheritance-are-we-fair-in-taxation-of-the-fortunate-classes-1.4562347

SmokyMo wrote: »

How about put tax on derelict properties and tax on vacant properties if more than 2 in possession as low hanging fruit?

How about we just tax every man woman and child in the country an extra 1% whether it be their doles or their corporate bonus.
While we are asking to be taxed like
Wasnt too long ago you had people looking to put a 1c tax on every sms or IM sent.
I fukin hate the way in Ireland people are always looking to slap a tax on everything.
How about a tax on asking for a tax

Hubertj wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/tiktok-agrees-long-term-lease-on-new-dublin-docklands-office-1.4562076?mode=amp

Can someone please explain this. Experts on this thread were saying that when google pulled out of this lease the building would lie empty for years. I just don’t understand.

Another large office beside mine in the city center that was empty before covid has just been leased too. Not sure by whom yet, as I only heard about it last week and havent been in our office in a year.

JimmyVik wrote: »

How about we just tax every man woman and child in the country an extra 1% whether it be their doles or their corporate bonus.
While we are asking to be taxed like
Wasnt too long ago you had people looking to put a 1c tax on every sms or IM sent.
I fukin hate the way in Ireland people are always looking to slap a tax on everything.
How about a tax on asking for a tax

you must own a derelict house then

PropQueries wrote: »

May be politically unpopular, but the state is going to have to start looking at raising revenues from other sources sooner rather than later as due to the high rents/property prices, the working poor really have nothing left to give. So they're left with just property taxes in some form or other as it's one of the few asset classes that a regular person can't pack up and move to another jurisdiction to avoid paying IMO

Alternatively, the state could be reduced in size, lessening the need for further taxation and putting money back into the pockets of citizens. A state without the funds to take out 25 years leases would be a good start.