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200 people celebrate a wedding in Longford.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,536 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    It’s stories like this that reinforce the prudence of my decision to follow a very limited number of the guidelines that the government put out over the last year.

    I have no issue in saying that I broke every single guideline that didn’t actually put myself, friends or relatives in danger.

    J


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,662 ✭✭✭corks finest


    Car99 wrote: »
    Wow I'm flabbergasted, ignore a court order , run an event for 200 people when the country is in level 5 lockdown . Walk away with what equates to a €60 per guest fine . Unbelievable. For an ethnic minority of less than 40000 people they sure do end up involved in alot of strife.

    Great oul country


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭daheff


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    So for €9000 you can have a wedding of 120

    €75 per person

    Well worth it I'm sure

    Pathetically lenient from the judge but no surprise there

    Is there any mechanism by which a citizen of the state can make a formal complaint about the leniancy of a sentence?

    This goes well beyond this being a traveller wedding.
    Effectively this make breach of a court order only a fineable offence. I'm not sure that is a road this country wants to go down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    elperello wrote: »
    Worth noting that there were no fines imposed by the judge.

    The four defendants have been ordered to apologise and pay 3k each to charity.

    No money coming into state coffers.

    Not much chance of that money going into charity coffers either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    daheff wrote: »
    Is there any mechanism by which a citizen of the state can make a formal complaint about the leniancy of a sentence?

    This goes well beyond this being a traveller wedding.
    Effectively this make breach of a court order only a fineable offence. I'm not sure that is a road this country wants to go down.

    You can appeal the leniency of the sentence because they didnt get convicted or sentenced to anything , they have told to make a charitable donation and it will all be grand. Nice bunch totally out of character.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,587 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Meanwhile a probationer Garda will be hung out to dry in the South East for having a house party and given a more severe response by the courts just for being a Garda.

    Obviously she's not a member of the specially favoured ethnic minority.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Meanwhile a probationer Garda will be hung out to dry in the South East for having a house party and given a more severe response by the courts just for being a Garda.

    She should be held to a higher standard tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,168 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    elperello wrote: »
    Worth noting that there were no fines imposed by the judge.

    The four defendants have been ordered to apologise and pay 3k each to charity.

    No money coming into state coffers.

    Has anyone done a costing on how much this wedding cost the state?
    You had trips to court and to judge requesting court order by barristers representing Garda, Council.
    You then had them represented in court yesterday with yet more court appearances down the line.
    All that costs the taxpayers money.
    You had all those armed Garda and public order unit (??) being driven down to Longford.

    Can anyone think of one single positive most of these travellers bring to the state and the rest of society?
    Look at the state of them.

    I see they only got engaged on March 12th, yet the marquee owner said the wedding had been booked back in October, and at that stage he reckoned we'd be in the clear by now.

    https://www.facebook.com/williex.shelby

    I had to laugh when they left the About sections blank for Workplaces, Schools and Colleges. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    jmayo wrote: »
    Can anyone think of one single positive most of these travellers bring to the state and the rest of society?

    Some headstone makers make a good few bob out of them. As do tacky wedding dress makers. And the sellers of slash hooks. It's not all bad you know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,559 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Meanwhile a probationer Garda will be hung out to dry in the South East for having a house party and given a more severe response by the courts just for being a Garda.


    I'm fairness she's a guard and is already openly flouting the law as a trainee.

    No way she should be kept on.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    daheff wrote: »
    Is there any mechanism by which a citizen of the state can make a formal complaint about the leniancy of a sentence?

    This goes well beyond this being a traveller wedding.
    Effectively this make breach of a court order only a fineable offence. I'm not sure that is a road this country wants to go down.

    The country went down that road long ago.

    People end up in court with 100s of convictions because we have such a space shortage in prisons, we need to keep shifting people around to accommodate the new prisoners
    .
    So John who got a paltry 9 months for burglary is given temporary release so Dave (who assaulted someone) can start his paltry sentence and so on.

    When we can't jail people for serious offences for adequate periods, naturally ones like the above will fall below it.

    People can talk about sentences and the courts all they want, but when the space isnt there... it doesn't matter what the judge imposes and they know that, so avoid it completely in some cases.

    A judge can jail someone for non payment of a fine, but people need to realise that when they're brought to Prison they're immediately given temporary release due to capacity issues.
    This is all done away from the limelight and not reported.

    We wont sort the courts until we sort the prisons and all we've done in recent years is close them down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    We wont sort the courts until we sort the prisons and all we've done in recent years is close them down.

    The problem with shutting down prisons, is that we haven't even tried to come up with an alternative to rehabilitate people. So we get the worse of all worlds imo. Not enough prison space, and people are let go with 0 consequences, or even an attempt to rehabilitate them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭Jerry Attrick



    We wont sort the courts until we sort the prisons and all we've done in recent years is close them down.

    And there's not much chance of the State building any new ones with the growing number of NIMBYs aound the country! There are loads of votes to be gained from providing new hospitals or schools, but very few from building a new prison! And look at the omnishambles that Mad Dog McDowell caused when he tried to build that new prison out in North County Dublin. Not to talk of the millions of taxpayers' euros squandered.

    Thinking outside the box for a moment, maybe the best way forward would be to build co-located prisons and halting sites - both equally unpopular and both very badly needed!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,564 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Not much chance of that money going into charity coffers either.

    It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

    Will they do the sensible thing and pony up the 3k each or take the chance of ignoring the judge?

    One thing we do know for certain, judges don't like being dissed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    elperello wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

    Will they do the sensible thing and pony up the 3k each or take the chance of ignoring the judge?

    One thing we do know for certain, judges don't like being dissed.

    What would be the worst they'd get for not paying the €3k. A day or two in jail. Be no bother for them. The only person who will pay will be the owner of the chipper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    If the 3000 euro is paid will there be any question about where the money comes from. Will the state/charity accept a pile of tenners.


  • Registered Users Posts: 85,639 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    elperello wrote: »
    Worth noting that there were no fines imposed by the judge.

    The four defendants have been ordered to apologise and pay 3k each to charity.

    No money coming into state coffers.

    Who are the 4 defendants, bride and groom? I thought everyone attending would be fined


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    Who are the 4 defendants, bride and groom? I thought everyone attending would be fined

    Only the people who could be proven to have known about the court order banning the 'event' from taking place. Yes, the guests more than likely knew but that can't be proven.

    I also doubt that the Gardai took the name and address and verified the identity of everyone present either so no fines for them, even if they did break the law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,564 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    What would be the worst they'd get for not paying the €3k. A day or two in jail. Be no bother for them. The only person who will pay will be the owner of the chipper.

    We don't have long to wait to find out.

    They are due back before the court on June 1st with the money.

    The three local charities have been nominated, St. Christopher's Services, St. Vincent de Paul and County Longford Hospice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    The Gardai know the names of all Dublin players who broke restrictions to train.

    None have been fined so I dont see why they can fine anyone tbh

    If im ever fined over covid il not be paying it, and using the why didnt the gaa players get fined when caught or the wedding guests. the precedent has been set

    Same as that, sick of playing by the rules,


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    Who are the 4 defendants, bride and groom? I thought everyone attending would be fined

    It was a contempt of court hearing. The women didn’t know anything about the court order, according to the report.

    The four were groom, his father, father in law and the owner of the chipper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,168 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    The Gardai know the names of all Dublin players who broke restrictions to train.

    None have been fined so I dont see why they can fine anyone tbh

    If im ever fined over covid il not be paying it, and using the why didnt the gaa players get fined when caught or the wedding guests. the precedent has been set

    Things is do you have the connections the Dublin footballers have or are you from a much put upon ethnic group like the travellers?

    Well actually the last one should really read "are you scary enough that the authorities don't want to rile you".
    scary
    It was a contempt of court hearing. The women didn’t know anything about the court order, according to the report.

    The four were groom, his father, father in law and the owner of the chipper.

    I am trying to get my head around why the owner of the chipper is in this?

    I would have thought it was the owner of the marquee if anyone bar the immediate organisers of the wedding ?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    jmayo wrote: »
    Things is do you have the connections the Dublin footballers have or are you from a much put upon ethnic group like the travellers?

    Well actually the last one should really read "are you scary enough that the authorities don't want to rile you".
    scary



    I am trying to get my head around why the owner of the chipper is in this?

    I would have thought it was the owner of the marquee if anyone bar the immediate organisers of the wedding ?

    It’s all detailed here. “ Four people who were involved in organising a wedding celebration that took place in a marquee in Longford last Wednesday have apologised in court and are each to pay €3,000 to charity.

    They are the groom, William Stokes, his father Patrick Stokes of Willow Park, Strokestown Road, Longford, the groom's father-in-law Stephen Kelly of Railway Meadow, Longford, and Peter Volcella of Luigi's takeaway in Longford.

    Judge Keenan Johnson had directed that the bride and groom, their parents, the marquee owner and caterers were to attend a special court sitting this afternoon to explain their decision to "flagrantly" breach public health guidelines.

    As that hearing got under way this afternoon, the judge was told that there was only evidence that these four men were aware of the court order being served to remove the marquee, which had been erected for the celebration of William Stokes marriage to Shelby Kelly.

    There were no witnesses who could prove to the court that the bride, her mother Geraldine Kelly, and mother-in-law Caroline Stokes as well as the owner of the marquee, Alan Horohoe of Ventura Marquee Hire were aware of the order being served.

    Judge Johnson said that the hearing this afternoon was to deal only with alleged criminal contempt of the court order.

    State Solicitor Mark Connellan indicated to the court that a separate file is being prepared by gardaí into the alleged breach of Covid-19 regulations.

    Barrister Paul Gunning, representing the families involved in the wedding, said that all of his clients had come to court voluntarily and treated the court orders with the utmost seriousness.

    He said that this was not a place that the couple wanted to be a few days after their wedding. He suggested to the court that a fulsome apology could be made and a financial contribution made to charity.

    Judge Johnson said that this would perhaps be the best way of unlocking this "unsavoury situation".

    He directed that each of the four men pay €3,000 and that the total sum would be divided equally between three local charities - St Christopher's School, the St Vincent de Paul, and hospice charities.

    He asked that each of the men apologise in court, which they did. Mr Kelly said he was sorry for any wrongdoing he had done and Mr Stokes said he apologised to the judge and the people of Longford.



    Judge Keenan Johnson said that it is clear that the parties who are in contempt were determined to hold the wedding reception with a gathering in excess of the numbers permitted by the public health regulations, and that they did this with planning and premeditation.

    It is also clear, he said, that when they were advised of the court injunction they made a conscious decision to ignore the court order and proceed with the reception, adding that such a course of action is wholly and utterly unacceptable in a civilised society where the rule of law and respect for court orders is essential for the maintenance of law and order.

    Nobody is above the law, the judge said, adding that the actions of those before the court in defying a court order displayed tremendous defiance, arrogance, foolishness and selfishness on their part.

    Travellers, the Judge said, have a very noble and rich culture of which they are justifiably proud, and he said there is little doubt that they have suffered and continue to suffer significant discrimination.

    However, he said, the actions of the people before the court for contempt does little to further the cause of Travellers. He added that it has also damaged the very impressive and important work done by Pavee Point and others.

    What was needed was respect, Judge Johnson said, adding that respect is a two-way street - respect by the settled community towards Travellers and respect by Travellers towards the settled community.

    He said that unfortunately by proceeding with the wedding in defiance of public health regulations and in defiance of the court order, the parties in contempt had shown a gross lack of respect for frontline workers, gardaí, prison officers, supermarket workers, teachers and many others.

    By ignoring the court order and proceeding with the wedding the parties before the court created the risk of a superspreader event which could turn Longford into a Covid-19 hotspot, the judge said.

    He said their actions were reprehensible and are neither excusable nor justified.

    The judge said the actions of the marquee supplier and the caterer are particularly offensive as they enabled this flagrant breach of the public health regulations to take place. "In particular, their actions were an insult to all the legitimate businesses who have complied at a great cost to themselves with the Covid regulations."

    The court had heard that neither Longford County Council nor the gardaí had witnesses to prove the notice had been served on Alan Hanahoe of Ventura Marquee Hire. It is understood he did not get notification of the order until the day after the event.


    Judge Johnson adjourned the case until 1 June, when, he said, he wanted evidence that the four parties concerned had contributed a sum of €3,000 to charity.” https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0510/1220778-longford-wedding-restrictions/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Caquas


    The last sentence is crucial
    Judge Johnson adjourned the case until 1 June, when, he said, he wanted evidence that the four parties concerned had contributed a sum of €3,000 to charity.”

    I’d bet these lads thought they could walk away after their fake “apologies” and the charities could go whistle for their €3,000. Their solicitor will have to give them the bad news: this ain’t over. The hearing will resume in three weeks and they had better come up with the €3,000 each or prepare to spend the night in Castlerea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    Caquas wrote: »
    The last sentence is crucial



    I’d bet these lads thought they could walk away after their fake “apologies” and the charities could go whistle for their €3,000. Their solicitor will have to give them the bad news: this ain’t over. The hearing will resume in three weeks and they had better come up with the €3,000 each or prepare to spend the night in Castlerea.

    While a spell in jail would scare me, some people it doesn't. I'd say a few nights in Castlerea or elsewhere would amount to a weeks work for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Caquas wrote: »
    The last sentence is crucial



    I’d bet these lads thought they could walk away after their fake “apologies” and the charities could go whistle for their €3,000. Their solicitor will have to give them the bad news: this ain’t over. The hearing will resume in three weeks and they had better come up with the €3,000 each or prepare to spend the night in Castlerea.

    Like I said earlier, the only person who will pay this will be the chipper owner. The others will say that they are unemployed can't come up with that kind of money and will promise to pay back a fiver a week from their dole.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Caquas wrote: »
    had better come up with the €3,000 each or prepare to spend the night in Castlerea.

    Like they'd give a rats if they did.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wonder will her hairdresser, beautician and dressmakers be charged? His hair looked freshly trimmed too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭Panrich


    jmayo wrote: »
    Things is do you have the connections the Dublin footballers have or are you from a much put upon ethnic group like the travellers?

    Well actually the last one should really read "are you scary enough that the authorities don't want to rile you".
    scary



    I am trying to get my head around why the owner of the chipper is in this?

    I would have thought it was the owner of the marquee if anyone bar the immediate organisers of the wedding ?


    At a guess..

    I’d imagine that he was warned by the gardai that he would be violating a court order if he delivered food on the night but went ahead anyway.

    The lad with the marquee could have agreed with the Gardai that they could take down the tent but they couldn’t enforce that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭glenfieldman




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