Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Skygord · 07-05-2021 10:42AM

The Guardian Coronavirus blog report the UK now is restricting AZ use to those over 40...

In the UK, all under-40s are to be offered an alternative to the Oxford/AstraZeneca Coronavirus vaccine in a precautionary move.

PA Media reports that the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) and the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) are expected to say there are no new safety concerns after previous data showed the AstraZeneca jab was linked to very rare blood clots.

Previously, the MHRA has said the balance of risk for the AstraZeneca vaccine against Covid is very favourable for older people but “more finely balanced” for younger groups, who do not tend to suffer serious coronavirus illness.

Up to 28 April, the MHRA had received 242 reports of blood clots accompanied by low blood platelet count in the UK, all in people who had AstraZeneca, out of around 28.5m doses given.

These clots occurred in 141 women and 100 men aged from 18 to 93, and the overall case death rate was 20%, with 49 deaths. Six cases have been reported after a second dose of the vaccine.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/may/07/coronavirus-live-news-who-warns-of-risk-of-second-wave-in-africa-india-cases-rise-by-world-record-414188

Main article: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/06/choice-of-covid-vaccines-to-be-offered-to-britons-under-40-as-well-as-under-30

Personal view - I'm 50+ and will happily take any of the 4 EMA approved vaccines.

Van.Bosch · 07-05-2021 10:42AM

Marcusm wrote: »

By reference to the vaccine criteria set out by the HSE! I hve copied them below. Many are conditions which involve regular GP or consultant service. Others such as obesity may not involve any regular healthcare in which case you hve to identify a GP locally who is doing the vaccinating and contact them for a vaccine.

People aged 16-64 who have an underlying condition that puts them at high risk of severe disease and death
Cancer
Haematological - within 1 year.

Haematological - within 1 - 5 years.

Non-haematological - within 1 year.

All other cancers on non-hormonal treatment.

Chronic heart (and vascular) disease
Chronic heart disease, for example: heart failure, hypertensive cardiac disease.

Chronic kidney disease
Chronic kidney disease with eGFR <30ml/min.

Chronic liver disease
Chronic liver disease, for example: cirrhosis or fibrosis.

Chronic neurological disease or condition
Chronic neurological disease or condition significantly compromising respiratory function and/or the ability to clear secretions, for example: Parkinson's disease, cerebral palsy.

Chronic respiratory disease
Other chronic respiratory disease, for example: stable cystic fibrosis, severe asthma (continuous or repeated use of systemic corticosteroids), moderate COPD.

Diabetes
All other diabetes (Type 1 and 2).

Immunocompromised
Immunocompromise due to disease or treatment, for example: high dose systemic steroids (as defined in Immunisation Guidelines for Ireland Chapter 3), persons living with HIV.

Inherited metabolic diseases*
Disorders of intermediary metabolism not fulfilling criteria for very high risk.

Intellectual disability*
Intellectual disability*** excluding Down Syndrome.

Obesity
BMI >35 Kg/m2.

Severe mental illness*
Severe mental illness, for example: schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, severe depression.

*additional or updated medical conditions

** APECED - autoimmune polyendocrinopathy candidiasis ecto- dermal dystrophy

*** WHO definition of intellectual disability as “impairments in adaptive, social, and intellectual functioning (IQ<70), requiring daily support, with onset in the developmental phase (<18 years)”

Yes - that’s all grand but my point was in relation to someone who said C7 should go via the portal, how would you verify someone is in those groups.

stephenjmcd · 07-05-2021 10:46AM

Skygord wrote: »

The Guardian Coronavirus blog report the UK now is restricting AZ use to those over 40...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/may/07/coronavirus-live-news-who-warns-of-risk-of-second-wave-in-africa-india-cases-rise-by-world-record-414188

UK media also reporting that it's a move to try & combat vaccine hesitancy in younger groups, not because of the AZ safety profile.

Do the UK have an issue with vaccine hesitancy ? Can't recall it being flagged up as much of an issue there previously. Certainly not when you compare to France for example

ShineOn7 · 07-05-2021 10:51AM

Deleted User wrote: »

10.5 per million = 1 in 95,238 or 0.00105%

I use this https://percentagecalculator.net/

And the second option on the page ("___ is what percentage of ___")

It's saying 0.0023 %

Based on 242 cases out of 10.5 million doses on AZ in the UK

stephenjmcd · 07-05-2021 10:56AM

After the good news from Pfizer yesterday around vaccinating athletes and the support teams heading to the Olympics. I've just seen an article on the Japanese vaccine rollout. They have 24 million doses of Pfizer & BioNTech sitting in freezers, they've only just 15% of their deliveries.

Mind boggling stuff

BrianD3 · 07-05-2021 11:03AM

Of course it has happened. When you outsource vital public services to 1000+ private contractors without adequate oversight in a country where cute hoorism is endemic, it's inevitable. All the GPs have to do is "employ" a few family members as receptionists (as is their right) and give them the vaccine. It's none of state's business who they employ.

The conditions for vaccine and other healthcare nepotism were in place long before Covid arrived.

Even after what happened in the Coombe and Beacon, posters are still coming out with the tired argument "would you prefer if they went in the bin". In the Coombe's case, a hospital consultant brought mRNA vaccines that have very specific refrigeration and transportation requirements, home to family members. Were those vaccines even effective by the time they were administered, who knows. Maybe the second dose that those people subsequently received in the correct manner was actually the first dose, who knows.

Meanwhile, several months later, housebound elderly still hadn't received their first dose of the vaccine because "the ambulance service is very busy", the HSE didn't know how many housebound there were and because of "logistical difficulties".

timsey tiger · 07-05-2021 11:04AM

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Well, is anyone contacting their TDs? If a tree falls in a forest etc.

Of course they are and the td will happily write a letter about for them.

crossman47 · 07-05-2021 11:07AM

Lumen wrote: »

One would hope that once the dust has settled, some serious questions would be asked about how Ireland has managed to have such a fragmented healthcare system in a country of only 5 million people.

GPs using paper-based records is just pitiful in 2021. It's not like they don't have the time for data entry; every GP surgery I've been into in Ireland has a receptionist who spends most of the day doing fck all despite protestations to the contrary.

What we need is a unique individual identifier (for all transactions with government) but there has always been opposition to this.

Hmmzis · 07-05-2021 11:07AM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I use this https://percentagecalculator.net/

And the second option on the page ("___ is what percentage of ___")

It's saying 0.0023 %

Based on 242 cases out of 10.5 million doses on AZ in the UK

It's 28.5 million doses of AZ given out in the UK from reading the articles above. Or are you calculating people fully vaccinated with AZ?

Skygord · 07-05-2021 11:08AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

UK media also reporting that it's a move to try & combat vaccine hesitancy in younger groups, not because of the AZ safety profile.

Do the UK have an issue with vaccine hesitancy ? Can't recall it being flagged up as much of an issue there previously. Certainly not when you compare to France for example

I think they're very carefully managing the news releases given the dates/times of when MHRA issue updates regarding AZ - yesterday's was on the day of local elections when the news would focus on them, and previously on Maundy Thursday, and another time at same time as a live EMA new conference.

Also how it is a presented and managed that people "under 40 will be offered an alternative" as opposed to the UK coverage of EU restrictions with headlines like "xxx country bans AZ for over 50's" and the like.

ShineOn7 · 07-05-2021 11:09AM

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Well, is anyone contacting their TDs? If a tree falls in a forest etc.

Most Local TDs do eventually write to who's needed for you

The trick is to email them all and make the email personal and not a mass email CC'ing them all

You will also see much faster action when you email the TDs in Opposition first, they are looking for reasons to stir things up

Sofa King Great · 07-05-2021 11:09AM

This is something that really annoyed me when we were doing small numbers. Now that we are doing 200k a week and there are we'll over a million vaccinated, it is far less of an issue.

Wolf359f · 07-05-2021 11:09AM

Hmmzis wrote: »

It's 28.5 million doses of AZ given out in the UK from reading the articles above. Or are you calculating people fully vaccinated with AZ?

To confound the issue, they are also seeing clots in second doses at a rate currently at 1 in a million (based on 4 cases from 4mil second doses) No doubt that will increase over time.

munchkin_utd · 07-05-2021 11:10AM

funny that its not mentioned in the irish media (well, not really, the papers mainly report on press releases they get locally or copy US/ UK/ AUS / NZ news for a domestic audience so miss out on EU news) that France is threatening to Veto the next EU Pfizer / Biontech order which is needed as boosters against variants down the line.

They want a share of the action even if it means lowering orders from existing proven facilities which are producing exceptionally reliably and with massive output.
I hope to fk that IRL and other countries just bypass those inept French muppets and organise an EU 26 order and let France depend on their own currently non existant vaccines and vaccine production facilities. That was going to happen with the financial aid packages when Hungary threatened a veto, surely its possible now.
https://www.krone.at/2408314

Russman · 07-05-2021 11:16AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

UK media also reporting that it's a move to try & combat vaccine hesitancy in younger groups, not because of the AZ safety profile.

Do the UK have an issue with vaccine hesitancy ? Can't recall it being flagged up as much of an issue there previously. Certainly not when you compare to France for example

The AZ safety profile, or probably more accurately, the reporting around the AZ safety profile, is likely contributing to some hesitancy though.

Turtwig · 07-05-2021 11:20AM

seamus wrote: »

The reason NPHET advised that people can be considered fully vaccinated after one dose was more sociology than immunology. They reasoned (correctly, IMO), that if you needed two doses to be considered "fully vaxxed" with AZ, then people might start refusing it. And since the second dose only boosts immunity by a few %, then the greater good is served by treating AZ patients as fully vaxxed after 4 weeks.

NPHET didn't make this advice. NIAC Did.
What you said may only be partially true. The 4 weeks basis is backed up by real world data. The real world data from the UK shows that both AZ and PB perform fairly similarly. After about 4 weeks the neutralising antibodies are present in both individuals. There is a reduction in transmission and infection. The wildcard here is immunocompromised individuals. These individuals do not have the same level of neutralising antibody response. It seems at present that they need a second dose to get the same level of response that the normal population gets from one dose. Given this populations' vulnerability and the extra precautions they've been advised to take it's much harder to gauge how much transmission and severity of infection gets impacted by the vaccines outside of theoretical guesses from the presence of neutralising antibodies. A crude approximation in other words. It's also possible they simply be slower at building up at response. 8 weeks after the first dose they may have similar levels that the normal population had at 4 weeks.
The studies into this are still ongoing.
It may be the case that when these are completed in June/July the recommendation will be sent to JCVI to prioritise the vulnerable cohorts for the second dose as soon as possible. That is what is currently anticipated as I understand it. For everyone else 4 weeks after one vaccine dose actually may be enough.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I agree it is scandalous how group 4 and 7 were organised . I have three family members in group 7 ( all under 33 ) .

If its any small consolation you are considered fully vaccinated 4 weeks after dose 1 of AZ . The second dose is a booster

See above. Imo non medical risk people can consider themselves fully vaccinated with AZ 4 weeks after first dose. For the elderly, immunocompromised and medically vulnerable in general I'd be more cautious and waiting until 2 weeks after that second dose. Or until the studies are completed so we can know with a greater degree of confidence.

kooreczka · 07-05-2021 11:24AM

I'm in cohort 4 have been waiting for my vaccine for the last month to hear from my GP he is not getting it in anymore and now I have to wait for my group age to be vaccinated. He put me on a list a month ago and said they will be in touch. I've know people who got vaccines from surgeries in my area this week from cohort 4 and honestly I think my dose was there for me...nepotism is a horrible thing!

ACitizenErased · 07-05-2021 11:26AM

Group 7 is a mess because of how vague the requirements list is. GPs are being forced to decide if a person’s at such a risk that they need to be vaccinated right now. That’s a very very significant amount of work for a GP.

Summed up yesterday when someone on here posted they were asthmatic and listed their meds and they’ve been sent to get vaccinated, yet myself and others who are in the exact same position as them are rejected by GPs. So inconsistent and a bit of a mess tbh, no wonder people are angry.

timsey tiger · 07-05-2021 11:27AM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

funny that its not mentioned in the irish media (well, not really, the papers mainly report on press releases they get locally or copy US/ UK/ AUS / NZ news for a domestic audience so miss out on EU news) that France is threatening to Veto the next EU Pfizer / Biontech order which is needed as boosters against variants down the line.

They want a share of the action even if it means lowering orders from existing proven facilities which are producing exceptionally reliably and with massive output.
I hope to fk that IRL and other countries just bypass those inept French muppets and organise an EU 26 order and let France depend on their own currently non existant vaccines and vaccine production facilities. That was going to happen with the financial aid packages when Hungary threatened a veto, surely its possible now.
https://www.krone.at/2408314

The initial pfizer/biontech order would have been much larger as well if it wasn't for the French, we do not need their shyte effing it up again.

ginoginelli · 07-05-2021 11:28AM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I have that as 0.002 % chance of getting a clot with AZ

I thought it was "1 in 100,000" as per the "experts", or am I reading the % wrong?

Exactly

I simply don't want AZ or J&J, based on Denmark's analysis alone*

Would I take them if they're what's offered? Probably

But reluctantly

* This isn't a cue for the usual "the best vaccine is what's offered to you!!1" regulars on here

AZ and J&J are seeing issues just a few months in, what are the stats with them going to look like a few years in?

Also, AZ are just a messy b@stard of a company in general

I feel the same.

Az has been littered with problems, and data wise Pfizer and moderna are much stronger.

I'd still take az if offered because I'm at a higher risk of covid complications than others, but give me a choice and its Pfizer or moderna all day long.

'The best vaccine is the one offered to you' mantra touted by health officials and impressionable minions here is pure spin. Its geared towards the collective health of the nation, I get it, and it's probably the right thing to do. But dont kid yourself that Pfizer and moderna isnt a preferable choice on an individual basis.

Necro · 07-05-2021 11:28AM

Threads merged

ShineOn7 · 07-05-2021 11:30AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Summed up yesterday when someone on here posted they were asthmatic and listed their meds and they’ve been sent to get vaccinated, yet myself and others who are in the exact same position as them are rejected by GPs. So inconsistent and a bit of a mess tbh, no wonder people are angry.

Your GP assessed you "weren't asthmatic enough"?

That's a bit mental to say the least

Anyone with breathing issues of any sort should be Cohort 7, considering - ya know - that Covid attacks the jaysus lungs

The mind boggles

Lucas Hood · 07-05-2021 11:32AM

Hub updated with 44,672 vaccines being done on Wednesday.

ShineOn7 · 07-05-2021 11:32AM

Hmmzis wrote: »

It's 28.5 million doses of AZ given out in the UK from reading the articles above. Or are you calculating people fully vaccinated with AZ?

Ah ok thanks. I read here it was 10.5 million, which must've been those who had both shots

So 242 cases of blood clotting out of 28.5 million is now 0.00084% as per

https://percentagecalculator.net/ (if I've used it right)

Although, the clotting happened to AZ takers after one dose. As mentioned above, it's 1 in a million (so far) after both shots

Tbh I don't think the AZ risk calculations should be based off both shot figures, the vast majority of blood clots are happening in those after the first shot

Regardless, if I'm offered it I will take it albeit reluctantly

But obviously Pfizer is the gold standard

quokula · 07-05-2021 11:36AM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

funny that its not mentioned in the irish media (well, not really, the papers mainly report on press releases they get locally or copy US/ UK/ AUS / NZ news for a domestic audience so miss out on EU news) that France is threatening to Veto the next EU Pfizer / Biontech order which is needed as boosters against variants down the line.

They want a share of the action even if it means lowering orders from existing proven facilities which are producing exceptionally reliably and with massive output.
I hope to fk that IRL and other countries just bypass those inept French muppets and organise an EU 26 order and let France depend on their own currently non existant vaccines and vaccine production facilities. That was going to happen with the financial aid packages when Hungary threatened a veto, surely its possible now.
https://www.krone.at/2408314

That newspaper is the Austrian equivalent of the daily mail, so I’d take anything they say with a large pinch of salt. I couldn’t find any reliable source reporting this news, just various tabloid rags reporting it and French ministers denying it, so I suspect it’s a complete non-story.

stephenjmcd · 07-05-2021 11:41AM

44,672 added

https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1390617410605129730?s=19

timsey tiger · 07-05-2021 11:43AM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Ah ok thanks. I read here it was 10.5 million, which must've been those who had both shots

So 242 cases of blood clotting out of 28.5 million is now 0.00084% as per

https://percentagecalculator.net/ (if I've used it right)

Although, the clotting happened to AZ takers after one dose. As mentioned above, it's 1 in a million (so far) after both shots

Tbh I don't think the AZ risk calculations should be based off both shot figures, the vast majority of blood clots are happening in those after the first shot

Regardless, if I'm offered it I will take it albeit reluctantly

But obviously Pfizer is the gold standard

Comparing it to doses, is not the correct way to look at it. If you do get AZ vaccine, then I presume you will be getting two doses, so you would need to double chances.

I would point out that these numbers are small enough that it is not really possible to imagine. It's like comparing walking the length of your shadow with running a marathon.

is_that_so · 07-05-2021 11:43AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

44,672 added

https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1390617410605129730?s=19

So over 90K in the last two days based on what Reid said about yesterday. That's a nice boost.

Lumen · 07-05-2021 11:47AM

crossman47 wrote: »

What we need is a unique individual identifier (for all transactions with government) but there has always been opposition to this.

There's the IHI

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/national-services/individual-health-identifier/

crossman47 wrote: »

IHI and your COVID-19 vaccine

You do not need to know your IHI to get your COVID-19 vaccine.

The vaccination system will find your IHI when you give your personal details including your:

name
date of birth
address
PPS number - read about where to find your PPS number on Citizens Information
These details will be used to help make sure that everyone who gets their COVID-19 vaccine is correctly matched to their vaccination record.

Any additional information you enter on the vaccination portal will not be attached to your IHI.

Skygord · 07-05-2021 11:48AM

kooreczka wrote: »

I'm in cohort 4 have been waiting for my vaccine for the last month to hear from my GP he is not getting it in anymore and now I have to wait for my group age to be vaccinated. He put me on a list a month ago and said they will be in touch. I've know people who got vaccines from surgeries in my area this week from cohort 4 and honestly I think my dose was there for me...nepotism is a horrible thing!

See if your GP can refer you to another practice who IS vaccinating Cohort 4's, and hopefully you'll get done by them soon.

Then also move your business to that other GP - and tell your GP why you've left them. We need to send a message to the GP's who are opting out of vaccinating the most medically vulnerable - it's not acceptable.

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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