Greenway in Rochestown.

PreCocious · 05-05-2021 3:03pm #1

What's the real story here ?

The City Council put out a public consultation period. The residents objected to a boardwalk. Some say they objected in meetings held with the Council before the consultation, others say they never had any meetings.

A garda in Passage signed a letter objecting to the boardwalk but Garda HQ says they have no objections. One grouping has sent a solicitor's letter about it.

The people were overwhelmingly in support of the boardwalk option but the council said know.

Now Cllr. Kieran McCarthy when asked on twitter whether he supported it or not replied that the person would have to email him with their full name due to "vested interests".

Other Councilors (except Des Cahill) have gone very quiet.

This seems to have taken on a life of its own and become very serious.

Treehelpplease · 05-05-2021 3:19pm

As Des said this isn't a greenway its a roads project. If they think having a public, lit boardwalk is more dangerous than the current situation of a hidden dumping ground in terms of being robbed, idk what to say to them. Looking at Google Maps they all have fences or walls at the rear of their properties, plus scrub and trees. Plant more trees and hedging if privacy is that much of a concern to them.

chalkitdown1 · 05-05-2021 3:22pm

It's all very bizarre, alright. What the hell McCarthy's on about I have no idea.

I never would have imaginied that such a short section of a greenway going through what is essentially a wasteland and tipping site, would be so contentious. A greenway going through this section is like the easiest win in the history of big wins for the Rochestown area.

There's something very strange about the whole thing.

captainshamroc · 05-05-2021 3:26pm

Its the city council executive who are making this decision and not the councilors. Same group that are giving the letter of consent to allow the GAA apply to build a car park on the Marina park instead of a children's playground that was earmarked for it but suddenly went missing from the park development plans.
Unfortunately these folks are not answerable to voters and we have no control over their decisions and can't vote them out. They seem to side with vested interests and against the majority of citizens opinions according to their own public submissions.
If it was politicians making these decisions there would be uproar and they would be on the back foot trying to avoid being voted out..
The whole guards submission thing is hilarious. Nothing will happen of course, but it shows you what dodgy dealings goes on behind the scenes.

Ludo · 05-05-2021 6:29pm

After what happened in one of the houses in question here last week, you can understand why people are cautious on commenting.

Mardyke · 05-05-2021 6:36pm

Is Ann Doherty still the top dog in the City Council?

Who else decides on these things in there?

Mardyke · 05-05-2021 6:37pm

Ludo wrote: »

After what happened in one of the houses in question here last week, you can understand why people are cautious on commenting.

Is that where the shooting was?
Even if it was, not sure what the link is??

beer enigma · 05-05-2021 6:40pm

Ludo wrote: »

After what happened in one of the houses in question here last week, you can understand why people are cautious on commenting.

Dont see any relevance to be honest

cc · 05-05-2021 10:39pm

It's all very odd tbh, this kind of scheme should be bread and butter to a local authority. Makes you wonder how decision making in local government happens in general.

oleard1987 · 05-05-2021 11:03pm

Treehelpplease wrote: »

As Des said this isn't a greenway its a roads project. If they think having a public, lit boardwalk is more dangerous than the current situation of a hidden dumping ground in terms of being robbed, idk what to say to them. Looking at Google Maps they all have fences or walls at the rear of their properties, plus scrub and trees. Plant more trees and hedging if privacy is that much of a concern to them.

Why should the residents have to put up screens or shrubbery just to put a walk way there
Don't think you would particularly happy if you lived there for years and years and suddenly the council decided to put a walkway there and everybody staring in to your garden and kitchen windows

Everybody is brilliant at commenting and giving out especially when it's not there house involved

TheChizler · 05-05-2021 11:27pm

I have relatives in one of the houses there, most gardens are long and there's no visibility from the lane at the end never mind the shoreline.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 06-05-2021 12:20am

Plenty of sections of the current Greenway run behind houses.

It can be easily done to maintain privacy for the residents who are concerned. I personally see it as a non issue and it is simply being used, along with the SPA claim, to get the coastal option removed from consideration. The place is currently a dumping ground and anyone can access it. A Greenway with lighting and CCTV would actually make the area to the rear safer than it currently is, along with passive surveillance. Same residents objecting have no problem dumping their motor vehicles on the current shared path "Greenway" to the front of their houses... Saw this video on Twitter earlier which perfectly highlights the crap walkers, joggers and cyclists have to put up with currently:

https://twitter.com/MyPushBike/status/1389879454785224707?s=19

On top of the above... This whole thing with Gardai known locally / who also may be property owners in the area making personal submissions hiding behind the An Garda Síochána name also stinks... Unbelievable carry on. https://www.thejournal.ie/cork-garda-planning-objection-5429059-May2021/

Yet the council exec are happy to plough ahead with a rubbish plan despite the clearly flawed decision making and public consultation process. Beggars belief really. No accountability whatsoever in the organisation. Makes you wonder why we have councillors at all if everything is just overruled by Queen Ann and Co. when it suits them.

Did I mention the roadway option is actually going to cost more than the far better, more attractive coastal route option?

TheChizler · 06-05-2021 1:00am

I'm not saying an elected major would have fixed everything but something needs to change. The elected representatives are powerless and those in charge have choosen to extend their own contracts without review.

chalkitdown1 · 06-05-2021 9:00am

oleard1987 wrote: »

everybody staring in to your garden and kitchen windows

Where did this stupid narritive come from? The proposed route is for along the shoreline, IE; well below the elevation of the houses. No privacy would be impacted. The objectors seem to honestly believe that the greenway would run a foot from their back gate at eye level and people could just hop the wall or something. I partly blame the council for not providing even a basic mock-up of what it would look like when they had the consultation period.

I also find it hilarious how the objectors are up in arms about people potentially being able to see into their kitchens but have no issue whatsoever with all kinds of road users currently being able to stare into their living rooms and front gardens from the road. :pac:

Another thing to note: didn't the old Cork to Passage West railway used to run by the back of these houses?

captainshamroc · 06-05-2021 9:07am

Mardyke wrote: »

Is Ann Doherty still the top dog in the City Council?

Who else decides on these things in there?

Yip
Here's the lot of them

https://www.corkcity.ie/en/council-services/councillors-and-democracy/management-team/

Unelected, unapproachable and unanswerable.
Suspect decisions made in the background and we have no way of knowing if they are above board.

chalkitdown1 · 06-05-2021 9:27am

captainshamroc wrote: »

Yip
Here's the lot of them

https://www.corkcity.ie/en/council-services/councillors-and-democracy/management-team/

Unelected, unapproachable and unanswerable.
Suspect decisions made in the background and we have no way of knowing if they are above board.

Who puts them into their positions, then? Do the councillers vote them in? It's nuts that the people don't have a say in who runs the city.

TheChizler · 06-05-2021 11:31am

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

Another thing to note: the old Cork to Passage West railway used to run by the back of these houses.

It would have been through their living rooms, you can see the old alignment at the old station platform.

chalkitdown1 · 06-05-2021 11:49am

TheChizler wrote: »

It would have been through their living rooms, you can see the old alignment at the old station platform.

Sure that's no bother, you can already see in there from the road, anyway. :pac:

yenom · 06-05-2021 11:56am

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

Who puts them into their positions, then? Do the councillers vote them in? It's nuts that the people don't have a say in who runs the city.

The council picks the City Manager.

questionmark? · 06-05-2021 1:05pm

This is quite simply mind boggling. One of the easiest of easy wins right in front of the councils eyes and they manage to get it wrong.
Instead the council have essentially said no to the Greenway because whats proposed is not and I çant repeat this enough not a greenway!

Mardyke · 06-05-2021 1:31pm

questionmark? wrote: »

This is quite simply mind boggling. One of the easiest of easy wins right in front of the councils eyes and they manage to get it wrong.
Instead the council have essentially said no to the Greenway because whats proposed is not and I çant repeat this enough not a greenway!

The City Exec have continually proven that they are not motivated by what is right. Their decisions aren't made in favour of the people of Cork. They have proven that they have another agenda.

I imagine they are also not very intelligent or modern minded. It's sickening what they are doing to this city.

the beer revolu · 06-05-2021 2:09pm

Mardyke wrote: »

They have proven that they have another agenda.

What do you think their agenda is?

captainshamroc · 06-05-2021 2:45pm

Not sure I'd say there is an agenda or vast conspiracy. Might just be the widespread public service culture of take no risks.
One bad mistake that you get known for could sink a career. Taking a risk offers small chance of upside and high chance of downside but taking no risk offers no risk of downside and time will provide the upside.
Their worry is making a name for themselves by being sued or messing something up badly hence the conservative option being the primary decision.
Greenway that could be on hold for years due to resident objections and court cases - Easier spend extra money on a half solution that will be forgotten about in a while. A few shrill voices on social media can be ignored as such.
Same for converting the proposed children's playground in the Marina park into a car park for the GAA. GAA are much more powerful than residents so more likely to go to court. Decision made and move on. A few signs about the place will be forgotten in a year or two.

We had our chance of an elected mayor that these folks would have been responsible to and blew it. They are responsible to 30 or so councilors of different wards, agendas and parties instead. Divide and conquer easy job.

Mardyke · 06-05-2021 3:42pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

What do you think their agenda is?

Hard to know, because they are like the Stonecutters.

But, it seems to me that they are very efficient at promoting themselves, organising gala events and amazingly able to be very open minded when it comes to the likes of Clancy's or that Fishmonger asking for something. I've no idea how those arrangements play out...

I get the impression they love a good EU grant.

There's one common denominator there....

rebs23 · 06-05-2021 4:46pm

Mardyke wrote: »

The City Exec have continually proven that they are not motivated by what is right. Their decisions aren't made in favour of the people of Cork. They have proven that they have another agenda.

I imagine they are also not very intelligent or modern minded. It's sickening what they are doing to this city.

I actually think Cork City Council are miles ahead of other Councils in Ireland on lots of fronts including pedestrianisation, cycleways, investment in city centre, parks, etc. I travel a lot around Ireland and tbh there's no comparison with other Councils. Councils in Ireland have no independent funding through local taxes to the extent they do in other countries so comparisons are flawed.
Putting the greenway at the back of these houses would have resulted in significant objections possibly legal as well as planning, it would probably require a foreshore license and would have taken years for 200 yards of a cycle way? It's a compromise to go out the front for a relatively short distance.
Get that small section done and maybe revisit in a few years? Speed trumps perfection sometimes? As someone pointed out earlier though we voted against a directly elected mayor so sometimes it's our own fault for who we elect and that's democracy.

funnydoggy · 06-05-2021 4:59pm

Words cannot describe how much I loathe the council and their decisions. Can we not do anything about getting them out?!

Mardyke · 06-05-2021 5:12pm

rebs23 wrote: »

I actually think Cork City Council are miles ahead of other Councils in Ireland on lots of fronts including pedestrianisation, cycleways, investment in city centre, parks, etc. I travel a lot around Ireland and tbh there's no comparison with other Councils. Councils in Ireland have no independent funding through local taxes to the extent they do in other countries so comparisons are flawed.
Putting the greenway at the back of these houses would have resulted in significant objections possibly legal as well as planning, it would probably require a foreshore license and would have taken years for 200 yards of a cycle way? It's a compromise to go out the front for a relatively short distance.
Get that small section done and maybe revisit in a few years? Speed trumps perfection sometimes? As someone pointed out earlier though we voted against a directly elected mayor so sometimes it's our own fault for who we elect and that's democracy.

That says more about the terrible standard of council in Ireland....

Cork City Council can't even get their own staff to stop parking on footpaths and plazas. They are THAT inept.

They spend too much time arguing with people and defending themselves. That one Doherty comes across as a very divisive character. That nastiness is written allover the Council in their actions.

SomeFool · 06-05-2021 5:22pm

I find the whole thing odd, I'd rather a path ran at the back of my house than past my gate, will make driving in and out difficult giving way to users on a busy greenway. Disappointed in the lack of foresight within the council but then they can't unlock a gate into a park so you wouldn't have great expectations.

thehairygrape · 06-05-2021 5:39pm

rebs23 wrote: »

I actually think Cork City Council are miles ahead of other Councils in Ireland on lots of fronts including pedestrianisation, cycleways, investment in city centre, parks, etc. I travel a lot around Ireland and tbh there's no comparison with other Councils. Councils in Ireland have no independent funding through local taxes to the extent they do in other countries so comparisons are flawed.
Putting the greenway at the back of these houses would have resulted in significant objections possibly legal as well as planning, it would probably require a foreshore license and would have taken years for 200 yards of a cycle way? It's a compromise to go out the front for a relatively short distance.
Get that small section done and maybe revisit in a few years? Speed trumps perfection sometimes? As someone pointed out earlier though we voted against a directly elected mayor so sometimes it's our own fault for who we elect and that's democracy.

Tend to largely agree with you here. I made a submission to go behind the houses, but I don’t live there so easy for me. As you said, it’s only a small part of the Greenway. Same problem in Castle Road, which I think is far worse, although you can go out the old railway line. And to a lesser extent, it would be great to have a boardwalk from Shandon Boat Club to the City Centre along the quays. End Of Monkstown to link up with the Carrigaline/Crosshaven path too, which I think is in the works.
All of these might come in time. But overall, the Council are doing a pretty good job. I cycle and run past those houses on Rochestown Road all the time. Rarely have much hassle and the improvements will help. And it’s only 300/400 metres anyway.
(notice my implied criticism there of your use of imperial units😄😄).

Mardyke · 06-05-2021 6:34pm

SomeFool wrote: »

I find the whole thing odd, I'd rather a path ran at the back of my house than past my gate, will make driving in and out difficult giving way to users on a busy greenway. Disappointed in the lack of foresight within the council but then they can't unlock a gate into a park so you wouldn't have great expectations.

Spot on. That gate sums them up alright!
They look after a minority with vested interest and the majority can go **** themselves.

funnydoggy · 06-05-2021 7:34pm

They don't care about our climate. They don't care about biodiversity, allowing greenery to be bleached and razed, trees to be felled. They don't give a crap about public consultation, they don't follow through on their plans, they let buildings around the city to literally fall apart, etc. etc.etc.etc.etc. and then the ex-lord mayor calls any critics "whingers".

They are absolutely useless and need to go.

Greenway in Rochestown.

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