Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

Strazdas · 05-05-2021 04:51PM

revelman wrote: »

The PR begins

I think this is a good indicator that those in their forties will be getting J&J in June

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-suggests-one-dose-j-j-vaccine-would-be-popular-with-over-40s-1.4556162?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fvaradkar-suggests-one-dose-j-j-vaccine-would-be-popular-with-over-40s-1.4556162

Yes, people have been assuming that the NIAC advice means it is impossible for anyone under 50 to receive J & J but that was never the case. It was always going to come into play if huge numbers of people are waiting to be vaccinated and they have spare doses ready to go.

podgeandrodge · 05-05-2021 05:00PM

abff wrote: »

Apologies if this has already been asked and answered, but 428 pages is a lot of posts to search!

I got my first AZ dose a couple of weeks ago and my wife got hers 5 days later. We have flights booked at end July, and there's talk of having a system whereby people will be allowed to travel within the EU provided they are fully vaccinated more than 14 days prior to the date of travel.

The leaflet we got when we were vaccinated says that the second dose will be given at least 12 weeks after the first dose. Under the proposed system outlined above, this would allow me to travel at end July if my second dose is within 12 weeks and 2 days of my first dose, but it would come a couple of days too late for my wife.

The guidance they have in the UK for the AZ vaccine recommends that the second dose is given between 4 and 12 weeks after the first. This appears to conflict directly with the approach being taken in Ireland and I'm just wondering if anyone knows the background to this difference in interpretation.

I appreciate that the "rules" around foreign travel may well change between now and end July, but I would be most grateful for any light anyone could shed on this difference in approach between ourselves and the UK.

that's an interesting one alright. Reposting in case anyone has a better answer, but it shows the "disadvantage" of Astra for those hoping for an early departure out of here. Hopefully 1 shot will suffice for travel.

Van.Bosch · 05-05-2021 05:01PM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

The article doesn’t say that, Where did you gather this out of interest?

Edit oh ok FT thanks

Yeah - John burn murdoch has a good analysis on Twitter.

Turtwig · 05-05-2021 05:03PM

The scientist said it wasn't that high. He didn't say it was terrible or low, or average. Posters here seem to be dismissing it as a crap vaccine. Am I wrong here?

That 50% figure is dubious in similar ways to an the 10% AZ. Both have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Dosing interval in the Brazil study was two weeks. Even then, none of the participants who received the vaccine were hospitalised with severe covid. In Chile, UAE and Turkey the vaccine efficacy % was much higher.

Other than a quote by someone which could mean all manner of things what evidence is there both for and against the usage of the vaccine?

revelman · 05-05-2021 05:08PM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

that's an interesting one alright. Reposting in case anyone has a better answer, but it shows the "disadvantage" of Astra for those hoping for an early departure out of here. Hopefully 1 shot will suffice for travel.

The second AZ shot is effectively a booster. The real work is done by the first shot. Real world data shows that this booster is most effective 12 weeks from first dose, rather than 4 weeks. The U.K. has been sticking to 12 weeks for months.

JDD · 05-05-2021 05:09PM

revelman wrote: »

The PR begins

I think this is a good indicator that those in their forties will be getting J&J in June

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-suggests-one-dose-j-j-vaccine-would-be-popular-with-over-40s-1.4556162?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fvaradkar-suggests-one-dose-j-j-vaccine-would-be-popular-with-over-40s-1.4556162

Deadly, I'm in the 40-50 category. I'd take the J&J tomorrow, no bother. One and done. I'll be on my holibobs with my vaccine cert in July. :cool:

dominatinMC · 05-05-2021 05:11PM

Turtwig wrote: »

The scientist said it wasn't that high. He didn't say it was terrible or low, or average. Posters here seem to be dismissing it as a crap vaccine. Am I wrong here?

That 50% figure is dubious in similar ways to an the 10% AZ. Both have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Dosing interval in the Brazil study was two weeks. Even then, none of the participants who received the vaccine were hospitalised with severe covid. In Chile, UAE and Turkey the vaccine efficacy % was much higher.

Other than a quote by someone which could mean all manner of things what evidence is there both for and against the usage of the vaccine?

Against - Isn't the fact that the Seychelles, who predominantly used this vaccine, going back into lockdown sufficient evidence? Wasn't there a similar trend observed in Chile a while back also. Compared to countries using "western" vaccines, which seem to be working extremely well.

hmmm · 05-05-2021 05:14PM

Is there any data on how many of these infections led to severe cases in vaccinated people?

I don't think the efficiency figures are particularly useful in themselves, if it was only 50% effective but prevented severe disease it wouldn't be such a big deal.

Jane1012 · 05-05-2021 05:14PM

Lumen wrote: »

That's not quite true. The 191,800 Pfizer doses arrived on Wednesday and the 165,000 AZ doses arrived on Friday. Presumably there was some kind of advance notification of these arriving, they didn't just turn up at Paul Reid's house in Keith from DPD's van.
.

Keith is your guy too? He’s a great man ðŸ˜‚

revelman · 05-05-2021 05:19PM

If anyone needs a reminder why adults of all age groups should be vaccinated, I’m copying and pasting this report from The Guardian just now (on the situation in the Americas):

Reuters quotes the director of the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO) Carissa Etienne as saying.

In Brazil, mortality rates have doubled among those younger than 39, quadrupled among those in their 40s and tripled for those in their 50s since December, she said.

Hospitalisation rates among those under 39 years have increased by more than 70% in Chile and in some areas of the United States more people in their 20s are now being hospitalised for Covid-19 than people in their 70s.

ddarcy · 05-05-2021 05:23PM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

that's an interesting one alright. Reposting in case anyone has a better answer, but it shows the "disadvantage" of Astra for those hoping for an early departure out of here. Hopefully 1 shot will suffice for travel.

I’ll admit I was seeing on Finland earlier on (originally I read fully vaccinated but it looks to be 1 jab now).

The concerning bit is with MHQ. That specifically states that you need to be “fully vaccinated”. For AZ that’s 15 days post second jab. The EU is already shipping about it, so wouldn’t be surprised if the Schengan zone required the fully vaccinated rule to enter.

[url] https://www.dfa.ie/irish-embassy/bulgaria/news-and-events/latestnews/exemptions-from-the-requirement-for-mandatory-hotel-quarantine.html[/url]

Full course of any one of the following vaccines:

Regarded as fully vaccinated after:

Pfizer-BioNtech Vaccine: BNT162b2 (Comirnaty®),

7 days

Moderna Vaccine: CX-024414 (Moderna®),

14 days

Oxford-AstraZeneca Vaccine: ChAdOx1-SARS-COV-2 (Vaxzevria®)

15 days

Johnson & Johnson/Janssen Vaccine: Ad26.COV2-S [recombinant] (Janssen®)

14 days

is_that_so · 05-05-2021 05:24PM

hmmm wrote: »

Is there any data on how many of these infections led to severe cases in vaccinated people?

I don't think the efficiency figures are particularly useful in themselves, if it was only 50% effective but prevented severe disease it wouldn't be such a big deal.

Here's a Nature article on them and the question of data.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01146-0

hmmm · 05-05-2021 05:27PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Here's a Nature article on them and the question of data.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01146-0

$36 per dose, not very competitive considering the efficiency. Better than nothing I suppose.

Turtwig · 05-05-2021 05:33PM

josip wrote: »

I think it's perfectly acceptable to come up with our own.
I'm using 50.5% efficacy; barely qualifies as a WHO vaccine.

We have real world trials. Brazil, Chile, UAE, Indonesia and Turkey to name a few.

Why are you going with the 50% from Brazi? It's a trial conducted in Health Care workers during the peak of a pandemic where there was two weeks between their doses. Recommended by manufacturer was at least 21 days.

is_that_so · 05-05-2021 05:33PM

Canada approves Pfizer for 12 and up, the first country to do it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0505/1213821-coronavirus-global/

duffman13 · 05-05-2021 05:45PM

is_that_so wrote: »

85K between GPs and pharmacies according to Leo. There has been no stringing along. Groups 1-7 are HSE and GP administered and pharmacies could not participate in those. Their problem is that they are not really suitable locations for this type of rapid mass vaccination approach. They do great work on flu' jabs because people just show up and there is no managed booking system.
Where you would expect them to play a part is when we get into the much larger groups and anything the MVCs can't do quickly being redirected. That will probably be in June and the under 50s.

There is very much a managed booking system for the first few weeks in flu vaccination season, as things slow down then you can do a walk in but the majority of flu appointments are in the first 6 weeks usually every 15 mins depending on pharmacy size.

Pharmacy figures show over 800 individual vaccination applications committing to a minimum of 100 vaccine and with a good number (around 50) committing to numbers in the hundreds (300-400)

As for stringing along, they have been told they can only administer AZ or J&J and there has been pretty much radio silence for the last 5 weeks since the expression of interest has been closed. Stores were asked what ammendments they made to provide large scale vaccinations and some of them have made significant investments with no response.

As regards, June I agree that was the most likely time they would get involved however with NIAC recommendations they won't be unless they make Liberal use of the no other vaccine clause

Turtwig · 05-05-2021 05:51PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Against - Isn't the fact that the Seychelles, who predominantly used this vaccine, going back into lockdown sufficient evidence? Wasn't there a similar trend observed in Chile a while back also. Compared to countries using "western" vaccines, which seem to be working extremely well.

In an of itself no. Vaccines are only part of the equation. Social contacts, infections and proportion unvaccinated are the other.

Apart from Israel, it's too early to tell how Western Countries are faring. The next six to eight weeks for the UK and Ireland will be very interesting to watch.
Israel's vaccination program was complimented with very strict social control, rules and phased relaxed of those rules.

An argument put forward for Chile was that the vaccinations actually prevented things from being much worse. The profile of disease was most prevalent in those not vaccinated. Chile simply reopened too quickly or let the infection spread too rapidly. They themselves put the efficacy as around 60% which, if reliable, is a pretty effective vaccine.

We need to be very careful we don't let Western exceptionalism bias us towards assuming the reason a country is in lockdown is because of the Chinese vaccine. China could definitely be more transparent but I've seen little real world data to indicate their vaccine doesn't work.

TheChosenOne_ · 05-05-2021 05:53PM

Just received my first dose of the Moderna vaccine earlier on. Feel fine now atm.

Just wondering from anyone who received the Moderna one if they felt any affects after getting it and if I should be preparing to feel a bit crappy

iamwhoiam · 05-05-2021 05:55PM

TheChosenOne_ wrote: »

Just received my first dose of the Moderna vaccine earlier on. Feel fine now atm.

Just wondering from anyone who received the Moderna one if they felt any affects after getting it and if I should be preparing to feel a bit crappy

My son got Moderna and was floored with tiredness the next day . His wife had Moderna and only a sore arm

iheartpooner · 05-05-2021 05:59PM

Does anyone have any information on how or if the HSE is implementing NIAC’s advice that people who have already contracted Covid-19 can be considered fully vaccinated after one dose of either mRNA vaccine? My googlefu is failing me.

snotboogie · 05-05-2021 06:00PM

Turtwig wrote: »

In an of itself no. Vaccines are only part of the equation. Social contacts, infections and proportion unvaccinated are the other.

Apart from Israel, it's too early to tell how Western Countries are faring. The next six to eight weeks for the UK and Ireland will be very interesting to watch.
Israel's vaccination program was complimented with very strict social control, rules and phased relaxed of those rules.

An argument put forward for Chile was that the vaccinations actually prevented things from being much worse. The profile of disease was most prevalent in those not vaccinated. Chile simply reopened too quickly or let the infection spread too rapidly. They themselves put the efficacy as around 60% which, if reliable, is a pretty effective vaccine.

We need to be very careful we don't let Western exceptionalism bias us towards assuming the reason a country is in lockdown is because of the Chinese vaccine. China could definitely be more transparent but I've seen little real world data to indicate their vaccine doesn't work.

You can look at the US and UK vs the UAE and Chile to see the difference. Those primarily using Chinese vaccines are stuck on 200 cases per million even after exceeding 100 doses per 100. The UK are at 35 cases per million and the US are at 135 per million at only 70 shots per 100. Its not definitive yet but it is really looking like Sinopharm and Sinovac are not as effective as Pfizer and AZ at reducing infection.

cameramonkey · 05-05-2021 06:03PM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Is the guy still alive? Remember what happened that doctor from China there who started ringing alarm bells back in 2019

what happened him?

is_that_so · 05-05-2021 06:07PM

iheartpooner wrote: »

Does anyone have any information on how or if the HSE is implementing NIAC’s advice that people who have already contracted Covid-19 can be considered fully vaccinated after one dose of either mRNA vaccine? My googlefu is failing me.

Statement last week.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/healthy-under-50s-who-had-covid-to-be-considered-fully-vaccinated-after-one-jab-1.4548886

drunkmonkey · 05-05-2021 06:08PM

(Bloomberg) -- Seychelles, which has fully vaccinated more of its population against Covid-19 than any other country, has closed schools and canceled sporting activities for two weeks as infections surge. The measures, which include bans on the intermingling of households and the early closure of bars, come even as the country has fully vaccinated more than 60% of its adult population with two doses.

Read more at: https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/world-s-most-vaccinated-nation-reintroduces-curbs-as-cases-surge
Copyright © BloombergQuint

Have we a Plan B?

Whestsidestory · 05-05-2021 06:16PM

What vaccine were they using?

Housefree · 05-05-2021 06:19PM

Whestsidestory wrote: »

What vaccine were they using?

A third of the cases involve people who have had two vaccine doses

Around 60 per cent of vaccine doses used in the country were made by the Chinese company Sinopharm, and the rest by AstraZeneca.

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-cases-surge-in-seychelles-despite-high-vaccination-rate/#ixzz6u0o2sEqJ

Necro · 05-05-2021 06:21PM

Threads merged

Jane1012 · 05-05-2021 06:39PM

Croke park seems to be open now for vaccinations. My dad got his appointment for this weekend. 16 days from registering till appointment text. Appointment will be 20 day’s after registering, I assumed all along that they were waiting for croke park to open due to proximity but to be honest a little annoyed so many younger than him got their jabs first due to their eircodes.... I rang HSE live last week and said I could bring him to city west or aviva (or anywhere for that matter) but no it depends on your eircode

odyssey06 · 05-05-2021 06:42PM

Jane1012 wrote: »

Croke park seems to be open now for vaccinations. My dad got his appointment for this weekend. 16 days from registering till appointment text. Appointment will be 20 day’s after registering, I assumed all along that they were waiting for croke park to open due to proximity but to be honest a little annoyed so many younger than him got their jabs first due to their eircodes.... I rang HSE live last week and said I could bring him to city west or aviva (or anywhere for that matter) but no it depends on your eircode

An uncle in his late 60s living in Marino was sent to City West last week so not sure what algorithm they are using for assignment ...

JTMan · 05-05-2021 07:24PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

(Bloomberg) -- Seychelles, which has fully vaccinated more of its population against Covid-19 than any other country, has closed schools and canceled sporting activities for two weeks as infections surge.

Good thread explaining what is going on in the Seychelles ...

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1389955259410354177

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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