Cyclists, insurance and road tax

AndrewJRenko · 02-05-2021 03:32PM

EddieN75 wrote: »

Failing a call to Joe Duffy it looks like you are just going to have to put up with it

I dunno, there does seem to be a tide turning, with public opinion, with commentary here, with certain public authorities leading the way.

Times they are a changin

Necro · 02-05-2021 03:48PM

SeanW wrote: »

Congratulations, you get two prizes.

1) A free pass to be a complete douchebag to pedestrians.
2) An unearned, hypocritical sense of moral superiority and self-entitlement.

Threadbanned

magicbastarder · 02-05-2021 08:16PM

State body in charge of national road network calls for mandatory registration and insurance of e-scooters
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40279619.html

seems related to the topic - but this is an absolute howler:

It claimed registration and insurance for e-scooters would act as a deterrent for users who failed to obey traffic rules or who caused obstructions on footpaths

AndrewJRenko · 02-05-2021 08:37PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

State body in charge of national road network calls for mandatory registration and insurance of e-scooters
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40279619.html

seems related to the topic - but this is an absolute howler:

Stark · 02-05-2021 09:53PM

That entire article is crazy. E-scooters not allowed use bus lanes? So they're supposed to use "the middle of the road"? Same risk of injury as a "manual bike" at speeds less than 25km/hr but they have to be speed limited to 20km/hr.

A shift away from use of private cars, also presented a range of new safety challenges. Recent research demonstrates that e-mobility has the potential to injure pedestrians and poor parking contributes to trip hazards,” Dr Meade said.

More so than the private cars they replaced!?

Sono Topolino · 03-05-2021 08:38AM

magicbastarder wrote: »

State body in charge of national road network calls for mandatory registration and insurance of e-scooters
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40279619.html

seems related to the topic - but this is an absolute howler:

Absurd to require this of e-scooters and not bikes.

carfinder · 03-05-2021 08:54AM

Trekker09 wrote: »

SeanW wrote: »

"A lot" is not specific. but it is common. I'm a daily pedestrian in Ireland, many years of that in Ireland's major cities. I get a certain baseline level of respect from motorists that I don't get from cyclists.

Get on a bike and see that 'driver respect' plummet.

Whilst the majority of drivers are fine, that small percentage is enough to make a massive difference. If the conforming driver rate was 99% the risk is still a major one for cyclists. On my commute there could be several hundred cars that pass me every day, so the odds are stacked against cyclist at being at risk of other road users. Every cyclist has at least 1 near miss every spin that is the fault of other road users. Cyclists are more at risk from pedestrians stepping out on the road. Should pedestrians have insurance?

Any cyclist that has at least 1 near miss every spin shouldn't be interacting with traffic at all. You should reassess how you behave while on your "spin" and raise your self awareness levels - it's unlikely that it's always someone else's fault :eek:

Pawwed Rig · 03-05-2021 09:11AM

carfinder wrote: »

Any cyclist that has at least 1 near miss every spin shouldn't be interacting with traffic at all. You should reassess how you behave while on your "spin" and raise your self awareness levels - it's unlikely that it's always someone else's fault :eek:

I don't know about 1 per spin but even on my short trips across the city on Dublin Bikes I have had more hits/near misses that 25 years as a motorist. I would be extremely reluctant to rely on cycling to commute.
Some of those hits and near misses were bus/car drivers who saw me in plenty of time but made a manoeuvre anyway or just didn't look before acting.

AndrewJRenko · 03-05-2021 09:40AM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Absurd to require this of e-scooters and not bikes.

Absurd to be even thinking about this for bikes OR eScooters.

carfinder wrote: »

Any cyclist that has at least 1 near miss every spin shouldn't be interacting with traffic at all. You should reassess how you behave while on your "spin" and raise your self awareness levels - it's unlikely that it's always someone else's fault :eek:

Try cycling in any of our cities.

magicbastarder · 03-05-2021 10:48AM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Some of those hits and near misses were bus/car drivers who saw me in plenty of time but made a manoeuvre anyway or just didn't look before acting.

yeah, many motorists when passing moving cyclists give about half as much space as they would if passing a moving car. there's no easier way to explain this other than many motorists really don't care about the safety of others.

i don't know if carfinder is a cyclist, but if not, i can offer this piece of advice - put an L plate up in your car and you're about halfway to the experience of a cyclist.
it was kinda astonishing, when my wife was learning to drive, how the behaviour of many motorists deteriorated, just with the appearance of that L plate.
but by carfinder's logic, this was probably all her fault somehow.

carfinder · 03-05-2021 01:23PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

yeah, many motorists when passing moving cyclists give about half as much space as they would if passing a moving car. there's no easier way to explain this other than many motorists really don't care about the safety of others.

i don't know if carfinder is a cyclist, but if not, i can offer this piece of advice - put an L plate up in your car and you're about halfway to the experience of a cyclist.
it was kinda astonishing, when my wife was learning to drive, how the behaviour of many motorists deteriorated, just with the appearance of that L plate.
but by carfinder's logic, this was probably all her fault somehow.

My own opinion is that many cyclists get a smug superiority complex once they get on a bike. It gets very Orwellian - "two wheels good, four wheels bad" territory. And many cyclists seem to conflate defensive cycling with aggressive cycling.
My own experience as a road user is that you must adapt your behaviour in line with the conditions e.g. on a hot summer day, expect lots of traffic - cars, pedestrians cyclists etc and expect the unexpected - kids running out on the road, cars parallel parking, etc. Most responsible road users adapt to the conditions. Notably, many cyclists that I observe do not.

Cant comment on your wife's experience but lets not get in the way of your strawman:rolleyes:
If your experience as a cyclist is soo poor, maybe you should limit yourself to segregated cycle tracks where you will feel safer

Trekker09 · 03-05-2021 01:39PM

carfinder wrote: »

Trekker09 wrote: »

Any cyclist that has at least 1 near miss every spin shouldn't be interacting with traffic at all. You should reassess how you behave while on your "spin" and raise your self awareness levels - it's unlikely that it's always someone else's fault :eek:

My rule of thumb for defining a near miss is how close the car is to me when it passes me and the potential consequence if I had to move out to avoid something. This also goes for cars that overtake me then turn left, cutting me off. The point I'm making is that my well being is at the mercy of other road users.

My behaviour when I'm on my spin is to follow the rules of the road, be courteous and be aware of my surroundings at all times. I've been commuting by bike for over 40 years in various parts of the world and would consider myself a safe road user, both on the bike and when driving.

I am visible, obeying the rules of the road, so yes, it is someone else's fault. They are the ones taking the risk.

Trekker09 · 03-05-2021 01:47PM

carfinder wrote: »

My own opinion is that many cyclists get a smug superiority complex once they get on a bike. It gets very Orwellian - "two wheels good, four wheels bad" territory. And many cyclists seem to conflate defensive cycling with aggressive cycling.
My own experience as a road user is that you must adapt your behaviour in line with the conditions e.g. on a hot summer day, expect lots of traffic - cars, pedestrians cyclists etc and expect the unexpected - kids running out on the road, cars parallel parking, etc. Most responsible road users adapt to the conditions. Notably, many cyclists that I observe do not.

Cant comment on your wife's experience but lets not get in the way of your strawman:rolleyes:
If your experience as a cyclist is soo poor, maybe you should limit yourself to segregated cycle tracks where you will feel safer

Funny how you single out cyclists here when this mainly applies to motorists

Are you a regular cyclist?

Seth Brundle · 03-05-2021 01:55PM

carfinder wrote: »

My own opinion is that many cyclists get a smug superiority complex once they get on a bike. It gets very Orwellian - "two wheels good, four wheels bad" territory. And many cyclists seem to conflate defensive cycling with aggressive cycling.

I am unaware of anyone who sits on a bike and then suddenly feels superior. When I go out on a bike, I mind my own business. If I become aggressive or angry, it is not because I'm sitting on a saddle. It is because someone has done something dangerous that could have affected me. I don't go looking for drivers to admonish, give out to, block or whatever. As I said, I'm minding my own business. I believe this is the case for most people when they get on a bike.
However, there is a definite hostility by some people as soon as they are in a car when they encounter a person on a bike.

carfinder wrote: »

My own experience as a road user is that you must adapt your behaviour in line with the conditions e.g. on a hot summer day, expect lots of traffic - cars, pedestrians cyclists etc and expect the unexpected - kids running out on the road, cars parallel parking, etc. Most responsible road users adapt to the conditions. Notably, many cyclists that I observe do not.

Someone on a bike will usually see a lot more of what is going on around them compared to a person driving a car.
However, it can be difficult for a road user to see everything on good days when so many drivers park inconsiderately.

Zebra3 · 03-05-2021 01:58PM

carfinder wrote: »

My own opinion is that many cyclists get a smug superiority complex once they get on a bike. It gets very Orwellian - "two wheels good, four wheels bad" territory. And many cyclists seem to conflate defensive cycling with aggressive cycling.
My own experience as a road user is that you must adapt your behaviour in line with the conditions e.g. on a hot summer day, expect lots of traffic - cars, pedestrians cyclists etc and expect the unexpected - kids running out on the road, cars parallel parking, etc. Most responsible road users adapt to the conditions. Notably, many cyclists that I observe do not.

Cant comment on your wife's experience but lets not get in the way of your strawman:rolleyes:
If your experience as a cyclist is soo poor, maybe you should limit yourself to segregated cycle tracks where you will feel safer

Cyclist do adapt.

If they don't they end up in a morgue.

Not that any of that excuses the selfishness of so many motorists.

Beasty · 03-05-2021 02:04PM

I have driven many hundreds of thousands of kilometres (actually well over a million). I have cycled tens of thousands of kilometres

I've had people leaning out of car windows top slap me. I've had motorists overtaking me top then take a left, forcing me to brake sharply. I've had cars, lorries and indeed busses pass me at serious speeds giving me less than a foot or so of clearance. I've had motorists try and cut in front of me to avoid oncoming traffic. I've had cars entering roundabouts I am already on, cutting me up. I've even had one car forcing me onto a motorway sliproad as they attempted to go from the outside lane (on the "inside" of a roundabout) straight across the other lane which I was in. In those last two examples the drivers were very apologetic, but that would not have been much use if I had not taken action to avoid them hitting me.

Without doubt there are many people on bicycle shaped objects that take the p!ss on the roads. I would say the vast majority of motorists are very courteous. Alas though there is a minority of motorists who think the road is for them at the expense of others. There are others who are frankly clueless over how to drive safely and be courteous to other road users.

Then we have people calling for insurance, more tax, helmets, hi viz and the like who quite frankly have very little understanding of the relevant issues.

Trekker09 · 03-05-2021 02:22PM

carfinder wrote: »

My own opinion is that many cyclists get a smug superiority complex once they get on a bike. It gets very Orwellian - "two wheels good, four wheels bad" territory. And many cyclists seem to conflate defensive cycling with aggressive cycling.
My own experience as a road user is that you must adapt your behaviour in line with the conditions e.g. on a hot summer day, expect lots of traffic - cars, pedestrians cyclists etc and expect the unexpected - kids running out on the road, cars parallel parking, etc. Most responsible road users adapt to the conditions. Notably, many cyclists that I observe do not.

Cant comment on your wife's experience but lets not get in the way of your strawman:rolleyes:
If your experience as a cyclist is soo poor, maybe you should limit yourself to segregated cycle tracks where you will feel safer

OK, so how and what forms 'your opinion'? I have asked if you are a cyclist and am looking forward to your response. I am yet to talk to a cyclist that is of the opinion that motorists are not a real and serious threat to their welfare. The simple fact is that no matter how safe and experienced a cyclist you are, the odds are against you due to the actions and behaviours of other road users.

carfinder · 03-05-2021 02:48PM

Trekker09 wrote: »

OK, so how and what forms 'your opinion'? I have asked if you are a cyclist and am looking forward to your response. I am yet to talk to a cyclist that is of the opinion that motorists are not a real and serious threat to their welfare. The simple fact is that no matter how safe and experienced a cyclist you are, the odds are against you due to the actions and behaviours of other road users.

I am a road user - motorist, cyclist and pedestrian (and very occasional motorcyclist).
There is a strong theme from the more avid cyclists on this thread that their views are more important than others - Beasty's post being particularly dismissive - bless him!
Im guessing that the serial unlucky cyclists who have at least 1 "near miss" per spin actively meet trouble half way and are never disappointed. The aggressive antics of many cyclists belies their vulnerability on our roads:eek:

magicbastarder · 03-05-2021 03:03PM

generally the near misses i would experience when out rural roads on the bike are oncoming motorists performing overtakes, even though i am oncoming traffic to them. i'm not sure what i can do to change my behaviour in that instance, in that if a motorist overtakes into oncoming traffic,they are 100% the ones in the wrong there.

Trekker09 · 03-05-2021 03:09PM

carfinder wrote: »

I am a road user - motorist, cyclist and pedestrian (and very occasional motorcyclist).
There is a strong theme from the more avid cyclists on this thread that their views are more important than others - Beasty's post being particularly dismissive - bless him!
Im guessing that the serial unlucky cyclists who have at least 1 "near miss" per spin actively meet trouble half way and are never disappointed. The aggressive antics of many cyclists belies their vulnerability on our roads:eek:

The strong theme you talk about is indeed from avid cyclists, those with lots of experience and bad experiences. Your dismissive nature and pig headedness in the face of real cycling experiences and near misses highlights the attitude towards cyclists, that we are at fault simply for being on the road.

Please explain how I meet trouble halfway when a motorist cuts me off or passes me on a blind bend! 'The aggressive antics of many cyclists belies their vulnerability on our roads Err, isn't that a normal reaction when your welfare is being put at risk? Motorists get aggressive having to wait a few minutes to pass

I call bull**** on you being a cyclist.

Fighting Tao · 03-05-2021 03:28PM

carfinder wrote: »

I am a road user - motorist, cyclist and pedestrian (and very occasional motorcyclist).
There is a strong theme from the more avid cyclists on this thread that their views are more important than others - Beasty's post being particularly dismissive - bless him!
Im guessing that the serial unlucky cyclists who have at least 1 "near miss" per spin actively meet trouble half way and are never disappointed. The aggressive antics of many cyclists belies their vulnerability on our roads:eek:

How is someone on a bike being aggressive to someone in a car by cycling?

carfinder · 03-05-2021 03:32PM

Trekker09 wrote: »

The strong theme you talk about is indeed from avid cyclists, those with lots of experience and bad experiences. Your dismissive nature and pig headedness in the face of real cycling experiences and near misses highlights the attitude towards cyclists, that we are at fault simply for being on the road.

Please explain how I meet trouble halfway when a motorist cuts me off or passes me on a blind bend! 'The aggressive antics of many cyclists belies their vulnerability on our roads Err, isn't that a normal reaction when your welfare is being put at risk? Motorists get aggressive having to wait a few minutes to pass

I call bull**** on you being a cyclist.

Quite the post. I call out the demonstrable dismissive attitude of cyclists on this thread and you accuse me of being dismissive - what a logic fail!

Your post says a lot about you though - you admit to being aggressive on the road so I have no doubt you are one of "those" type of cyclists.
And I dont care whether you believe I cycle or not - its you and your fellow self righteous fellow cyclists trying to dismiss my stated position that cares - you know, so you can be dismissive:rolleyes:

carfinder · 03-05-2021 03:36PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

How is someone on a bike being aggressive to someone in a car by cycling?

you know the type - self righteous all the way to the end - and meets trouble half way and gets in to plenty of arguments with motorists - especially elderly ones that cant defend themselves

Fighting Tao · 03-05-2021 03:39PM

carfinder wrote: »

you know the type - self righteous all the way to the end - and meets trouble half way and gets in to plenty of arguments with motorists - especially elderly ones that cant defend themselves

So a person is cycling along minding their own business…how is that aggressive?

The only time I have seen a cyclist aggressive, is when motorists endanger their lives. It’s the natural body adrenaline rush that happens when you have had a near miss with a 2 tonne vehicle. Is that what you are referring to? If so, do you think they should be calm as day in that situation?

harmless · 03-05-2021 03:47PM

One factor lost on some people is that cars sweep debris into the left side of a driving lane,hard should or cycle lane.

If a cycalist holds their line in driving lane when there is room to move left with a car behind them there can be a reason.
It's impossible to see this debris from a car.

Does anyone know how frequently cycle lanes are cleaned in Dublin city?

Trekker09 · 03-05-2021 03:52PM

carfinder wrote: »

Quite the post. I call out the demonstrable dismissive attitude of cyclists on this thread and you accuse me of being dismissive - what a logic fail!

Your post says a lot about you though - you admit to being aggressive on the road so I have no doubt you are one of "those" type of cyclists.
And I dont care whether you believe I cycle or not - its you and your fellow self righteous fellow cyclists trying to dismiss my stated position that cares - you know, so you can be dismissive:rolleyes:

Quite the attitude eh

Oh, and what's your definition of 'self righteous' and 'aggressive'? If somebody puts my welfare at risk then I have every right to be peeved. Most drivers acknowledge their mistake, very few get nasty, but there are a few, and nearly always are the 'you shouldn't be on the road' line of thought.
The only feeling I have when I'm on the bike is vulnerable, certainly not self righteous! Oh, and where have I admitted to being aggressive on the road? You're twisting this around to suit your agenda

Nice try, but no cigar

My money is on you being one of "those" type of drivers

EddieN75 · 03-05-2021 03:56PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

generally the near misses i would experience when out rural roads on the bike are oncoming motorists performing overtakes, even though i am oncoming traffic to them. i'm not sure what i can do to change my behaviour in that instance, in that if a motorist overtakes into oncoming traffic,they are 100% the ones in the wrong there.

This is true. Anyone who does that is an idiot. There is nothing you can do about it either. If there is a collision because of the drivers error you will pay the price.

carfinder · 03-05-2021 04:03PM

Trekker09 wrote: »

Quite the attitude eh Oh, and what's your definition of 'self righteous' and 'aggressive'? If somebody puts my welfare at risk then I have every right to be peeved. Most drivers acknowledge their mistake, very few get nasty, but there are a few, and nearly always are the 'you shouldn't be on the road' line of thought.
The only feeling I have when I'm on the bike is vulnerable, certainly not self righteous! Oh, and where have I admitted to being aggressive on the road? You're twisting this around to suit your agenda Nice try, but no cigar My money is on you being one of "those" type of drivers

So you are doubling down on the dismissiveness and you don't even realise it:rolleyes:
You display your aggression in most of your posts on this thread so far - again, self awareness isn't your strong point!
Yeah, I am one of "those" drivers - almost 30 years driving experience, no collision (touch wood, this continues). You, on the other hand admit to getting in to confrontations with other road users so I'm as certain as I can be on an anonymous website as to what type of cyclist you are;)

Hurrache · 03-05-2021 04:11PM

carfinder wrote: »

It gets very Orwellian - "two wheels good, four wheels bad" territory.

Not sure you understand Orwell considering when on a bike you're the one treated as second/third class and so on.

But below is hilarious too.

carfinder wrote: »

Notably, many cyclists that I observe do not.

Cant comment on your wife's experience but lets not get in the way of your strawman:rolleyes:

Trekker09 · 03-05-2021 04:23PM

carfinder wrote: »

So you are doubling down on the dismissiveness and you don't even realise it:rolleyes:
You display your aggression in most of your posts on this thread so far - again, self awareness isn't your strong point!
Yeah, I am one of "those" drivers - almost 30 years driving experience, no collision (touch wood, this continues). You, on the other hand admit to getting in to confrontations with other road users so I'm as certain as I can be on an anonymous website as to what type of cyclist you are;)

Well I commute approximately 60 - 80km a day depending on the route, so am more likely to encounter near misses. The vast majority I just shrug my shoulders and accept it as this is par for the course here in Ireland, not so in other countries. If it is serious enough and I can make contact with the driver then of course I will have words with the driver. In most of these exchanges the driver acknowledges their mistake and it's a civil exchange. Usually when it gets heated, it's the driver that gets aggressive first because they won't accept responsibility. I'm quite a laid back person, even on the bike, but when my welfare is put in jeopardy I respond, as most people would. If you saw a driver put one of your kids at risk and you caught up with them, what would you do?

Cyclists, insurance and road tax

Comments