How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady · 01-05-2021 9:30am

jh79 wrote: »

But how vocal will people be given they don't actually want a change?

66% in the south want a poll

44% in the north want one with 39% against it.

jh79 · 01-05-2021 9:41am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

66% in the south want a poll

44% in the north want one with 39% against it.

But the majority are against unification so can't see them demanding a poll.

droidman123 · 01-05-2021 9:42am

downcow wrote: »

No.
U.K. has committed £billions annually. It would be Roi tax payers turn and of course ourselves

They paid billions because they made their own bed and had to lie in it,you seriously believe in the event of a ui that the britain just walks away with no reparation costs?

FrancieBrady · 01-05-2021 9:45am

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

Interestingly support for a united Ireland in the North has only risen 5% since a similar survey carried out six years ago for RTE/BBCNI for a joint programme they did.
This rather suggests the Brexit bounce in support of UI is not as great as has been suggested.
In fact the general consensus remains pretty much the same - people have aspirations for a UI in the long-term but they don't want to pay for it.
And even nationalists and republicans are not overwhelmingly in favour of UI.

??? Brexit only happened in January this year.

mehico · 01-05-2021 10:31am

downcow wrote: »

I am borderline thinking we should have a border poll to put this to bed for a while but I will 100% vote against a UI. So numbers wanting a border poll are completely irrelevant. They have no bearing on either the reason sos having a poll or the result.
Just interesting that you cling unto an irrelevance. Mustn’t be much in it for you

Can't see a border poll being held in the immediate term but perhaps there could be one by the end of this decade.

I read a while ago an article from Unionist commentator sharing your view that a border poll should be held sooner. He made the argument that an Irish border poll should be held before the next Scottish referendum and if the border poll failed it would put the argument to bed for a while. However, he made the point that if Scotland achieved independence before an Irish border poll takes place, the case for the Union would obviously be irreversibly weakened and this would have consequences for a subsequent border poll.

Fionn1952 · 01-05-2021 10:42am

downcow wrote: »

Another interesting take on the poll.
Seems some here who have been slaying me need to pull their horns in
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/the-centenary/centenary-poll-suggests-only-29-of-people-in-northern-ireland-consider-irish-language-to-be-important-40375679.html

29% of people in the North think the Irish Language is important.....that's a significant number of people who think it is important, Downcow.

For context, that's the same number who think flags are important and you lads can't get enough of lobbing them up all over the place! I wonder what percentage think Orange marches are important? Pipe and drum bands?

Anyone else note the BelTel bias creeping into the phrasing though? Both of the above have 29% think they're important. For the Irish Language, they presented it as that, for the flags issue, they presented it as, '47% think it is unimportant...

FrancieBrady · 01-05-2021 10:45am

Fionn1952 wrote: »

29% of people in the North think the Irish Language is important.....that's a significant number of people who think it is important, Downcow.

For context, that's the same number who think flags are important and you lads can't get enough of lobbing them up all over the place!

Anyone else note the BelTel bias creeping into the phrasing though? Both of the above have 29% think they're important. For the Irish Language, they presented it as that, for the flags issue, they presented it as, '47% think it is unimportant...

Absolutely noticed the usual phrasing.

Also noticed that in the full figures on the language aren't presented or did I miss them?

Fionn1952 · 01-05-2021 10:59am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely noticed the usual phrasing.

Also noticed that in the full figures on the language aren't presented or did I miss them?

Irish Language - 29% important, 24% not sure, 47% unimportant

Flags - 29% important, 24% not sure, 47% unimportant.

An amusing coincidence that the numbers are identical.

maestroamado · 01-05-2021 11:14am

Its creeping up the political agenda at an alarming rate and its clear that there is a political will for it to happen alot sooner than i thought it might happen. Every day there is articles about it
All that needs to happen is to sell the idea to the people who will be most effected by it if it is to happen.
I read this morning that we would likely have to change to British style health system.
Arlene made the right move as i think she was blamed in the wrong as it was Boris and EU who agreed the border in Irish sea.

downcow · 01-05-2021 4:09pm

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Irish Language - 29% important, 24% not sure, 47% unimportant

Flags - 29% important, 24% not sure, 47% unimportant.

An amusing coincidence that the numbers are identical.

Completely supports my consistent argument that Irish language signage and loyalist flags on lampposts are similar in their reason and in people’s perception of them.
I actually thought Irish language would have been higher as not everyone into Irish will see signage as important so we are looking at a much lower figure

FrancieBrady · 01-05-2021 4:12pm

downcow wrote: »

Completely supports my consistent argument that Irish language signage and loyalist flags on lampposts are similar in their reason and in people’s perception of them.
I actually thought Irish language would have been higher as not everyone into Irish will see signage as important so we are looking at a much lower figure

You people!

You brought violence onto the streets over flying the flag on City Hall...not lamp posts.

Gas man.

Natterjack from Kerry · 01-05-2021 5:10pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

66% in the south want a poll

44% in the north want one with 39% against it.

Shows there is still quite a reconquer mentality in the south. Which in itself justifies much of the northern reticence.

What would such a new states name be ? In the case of a two state federation, a sensible possibility in itself, would Federal Republic of Ireland provide sufficient distance from Ireland or would it need something more radical ?

Fionn1952 · 01-05-2021 7:25pm

downcow wrote: »

Completely supports my consistent argument that Irish language signage and loyalist flags on lampposts are similar in their reason and in people’s perception of them.
I actually thought Irish language would have been higher as not everyone into Irish will see signage as important so we are looking at a much lower figure

Stretching, stretching verrrrrrry hard Downcow.

jh79 · 02-05-2021 8:23am

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/poll-two-thirds-say-united-ireland-vote-risks-return-to-violence-40378476.html

Majority believe a majority of 2/3 needed for a border poll to be accepted by both sides.

Behind a paywall so don't know the details but a claim in there that doubling of the USC or an increase from 20 to 28 % of the basic tax rate would be needed!

downcow · 02-05-2021 8:41am

jh79 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/poll-two-thirds-say-united-ireland-vote-risks-return-to-violence-40378476.html

Majority believe a majority of 2/3 needed for a border poll to be accepted by both sides.

Behind a paywall so don't know the details but a claim in there that doubling of the USC or an increase from 20 to 28 % of the basic tax rate would be needed!

Huge thanks for that.

“””Asked what size majority would be sufficient to for a Border poll result to be accepted by both sides of the community, people in the Republic (81pc) and the North (74pc) believe either a two-thirds or 70pc majority would be needed.
The landmark online poll of 2,250 people north and south was taken to coincide with the centenary of the creation of Northern Ireland this weekend. The margin of error is between 2.5/3.6pc.”””

This should be the new campaign for unionists - with evidence that the majority of both north and south agree with us.

ITS A GIFT. Feels like Christmas

Natterjack from Kerry · 02-05-2021 9:22am

Fionn1952 wrote: »

For context, that's the same number who think flags are important and you lads can't get enough of lobbing them up all over the place!

To be fair, republicans put up lots of Republic of Ireland flags too, though to their credit, they also show their endorsement and support for Orangism with their flag.

Fionn1952 · 02-05-2021 9:45am

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

To be fair, republicans put up lots of Republic of Ireland flags too, though to their credit, they also show their endorsement and support for Orangism with their flag.

I don't really give a toss what side is doing it; the whole sticking flags on lampposts thing is scummy as hell. It is more akin to dogs p*ssing on them to mark, 'their territory' than any sort of patriotism.

That being said, it was always a dead handy way of identifying places you don't want to live.

downcow · 02-05-2021 9:55am

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I don't really give a toss what side is doing it; the whole sticking flags on lampposts thing is scummy as hell. It is more akin to dogs p*ssing on them to mark, 'their territory' than any sort of patriotism.

That being said, it was always a dead handy way of identifying places you don't want to live.

Irish language roadsigns are become the new ‘classy’ way to know which community rules the roost in any area

downcow · 02-05-2021 9:57am

The bad news for republicans just keeps on coming. They have missed the boat. Unionists can relax for several generations.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/centenary-poll-irish-unity-would-jeopardise-peace-in-northern-ireland-survey-confirms-hardening-of-views-in-unionist-community-40377774.html

Hamsterchops · 02-05-2021 9:57am

downcow wrote: »

Irish language roadsigns are become the new ‘classy’ way to know which community rules the roost in any area

Are these official roadsigns as erected by councils, or ......

FrancieBrady · 02-05-2021 10:03am

downcow wrote: »

Irish language roadsigns are become the new ‘classy’ way to know which community rules the roost in any area

Classier than painting kerbs in my humble opinion.

FrancieBrady · 02-05-2021 10:04am

downcow wrote: »

The bad news for republicans just keeps on coming. They have missed the boat. Unionists can relax for several generations.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/centenary-poll-irish-unity-would-jeopardise-peace-in-northern-ireland-survey-confirms-hardening-of-views-in-unionist-community-40377774.html

Belfast Tel threatening violence again...terrible.

downcow · 02-05-2021 10:06am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Classier than painting kerbs in my humble opinion.

Yes we are in agreement. Classier looking, but same old message

downcow · 02-05-2021 10:08am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Are these official roadsigns as erected by councils, or ......

A mixture - just like flags. But same message received from the ‘other’ side

FrancieBrady · 02-05-2021 10:09am

downcow wrote: »

Yes we are in agreement. Classier looking, but same old message

That the native language is important? Yes, a good cultural message that nobody should be so insecure about.

downcow · 02-05-2021 10:11am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That the native language is important? Yes, a good cultural message that nobody should be so insecure about.

Same with the official flag
Ditto
We are on the same page now

FrancieBrady · 02-05-2021 10:12am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Are these official roadsigns as erected by councils, or ......

Absolutely. Imagine, this threatens the very fabric of Unionism.

pettigo-ireland-march-03-2019-signs-showing-the-border-of-the-republic-of-ireland-and-northern-ireland-RW5J5F.jpg

Hamsterchops · 02-05-2021 10:13am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That the native language is important? Yes, a good cultural message that nobody should be so insecure about.

Sadly "the native language" is just being weaponised as a tool against the other side!

Sad.

FrancieBrady · 02-05-2021 10:14am

downcow wrote: »

Same with the official flag
Ditto
We are on the same page now

No, we aren't downcow, I agree the flag can be flown on it's designated days, but YOU object to bi-lingual signs still.

FrancieBrady · 02-05-2021 10:15am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Sadly "the native language" is just being weaponised as a tool against the other side!

Sad.

See the sign I posted...weaponised? How does seeing the Irish language hurt anyone?

downcow · 02-05-2021 10:19am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, we aren't downcow, I agree the flag can be flown on it's designated days, but YOU object to bi-lingual signs still.

Wrong again Francie. I love diversity and I long for the day Irish language signs are not controversial and we all truly respect each other’s identity as well as all the new commers identities.

Hamsterchops · 02-05-2021 10:29am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

See the sign I posted...weaponised? How does seeing the Irish language hurt anyone?

Just realised the Irish language signage (purple) is in the Republic, then you enter Northern Ireland a few metres on

The impression I get is that both sides are still marking out their territory, nowadays with Nationalists putting up road signs in Irish, and presumably with Loyalists not allowing Irish road signage?

Sad.

FrancieBrady · 02-05-2021 10:30am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Just realised the Irish language signage (purple) is in the Republic, then you enter Northern Ireland a few metres on

The impression I get is that both sides are still marking out their territory, nowadays with Nationalists putting up road signs in Irish, and presumably with Loyalists not allowing Irish road signage?

Sad.

???

Cal4567 · 02-05-2021 10:31am

A united Ireland? Yea great, bring it on.

Will ye pay for it? Oh, hang on. What? How much? Can't the Brits pay for this? The EU?

It won't happen for years any how - (meaning - hopefully after I'm dead and gone and won't have to worry about it).

FrancieBrady · 02-05-2021 10:32am

downcow wrote: »

Wrong again Francie. I love diversity and I long for the day Irish language signs are not controversial and we all truly respect each other’s identity as well as all the new commers identities.

Yeh sure.

I'll remind you that the flag legislation was an effort to force Unionists to respect the unique place they live in, where they are 'equal' to everybody else and no longer superior...a status they adopted unto themselves and caused the issues.

Hamsterchops · 02-05-2021 10:49am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

???

Sad that both sides have to mark out their territory like urban foxes, this my territory, that your territory, but all within the borders of Northern Ireland. I hear it's similar in parts of Glasgow too?

FrancieBrady · 02-05-2021 11:01am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Sad that both sides have to mark out their territory like urban foxes, this my territory, that your territory, but all within the borders of Northern Ireland. I hear it's similar in parts of Glasgow too?

Are you suggesting that the south put that sign there?

There is no mark of territory in a bi-lingual sign. The clue is in 'bi-lingual'

Hamsterchops · 02-05-2021 11:08am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the south put that sign there?

There is no mark of territory in a bi-lingual sign. The clue is in 'bi-lingual'

No, not at all.

What I was suggesting was that the County Council's signage is on this side of the border, then you enter Northern Ireland just a few metres on ... that's the impression I got from your photo.

Maybe the County Council sign is also in NI.

Is it?

FrancieBrady · 02-05-2021 11:13am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

No, not at all.

What I was suggesting was that the County Council's signage is on this side of the border, then you enter Northern Ireland just a few metres on ... that's the impression I got from your photo.

Maybe the County Council sign is also in NI.

Is it?

I dont know the geography of that particular spot.
These signs are all over the north (oppressing the poor belligerent unionists...nobody else minds)

mehico · 02-05-2021 11:48am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

What I was suggesting was that the County Council's signage is on this side of the border, then you enter Northern Ireland just a few metres on ... that's the impression I got from your photo.

Maybe the County Council sign is also in NI.

Is it?

It is a Fermanagh and Omagh District Council sign and would be unlikely that it would have placed inside another local authority area.

Fermanagh and Omagh District Council use the same bilingual branding on their website which is not uncommon for NI local authorities.

https://www.fermanaghomagh.com

FrancieBrady · 02-05-2021 12:42pm

mehico wrote: »

It is a Fermanagh and Omagh District Council sign and would be unlikely that it would have placed inside another local authority area.

Fermanagh and Omagh District Council use the same bilingual branding on their website which is not uncommon for NI local authorities.

https://www.fermanaghomagh.com

I had a look on Google Maps at the sign I posted, Google hasn't photographed the road since 2011 but you can easily find the site and it is well inside the north.

downcow · 03-05-2021 8:05pm

Happy birthday to the Republic of Ireland. 100 years old today.
Here’s to many more years as a 26 county republic

Natterjack from Kerry · 03-05-2021 9:37pm

Thanks dc. Freestate and such, but appreciate the sentiment. We are hoping for many more of them too, and that the threat of NI joining recedes in the coming years, and can thrive in itself without hitching itself to the Republic.

What would you say is the interest in an independent state of Northern Ireland ? Compromise from both sides, and a sensible solution from the point of view of those in the middle. No reunification. No UK. But a truly independent, self governing, state ? It would be a great relief to both the UK and RoI is the matter could be settled once and for all like that.

ulster · 03-05-2021 9:44pm

downcow wrote: »

Happy birthday to the Republic of Ireland. 100 years old today.
Here’s to many more years as a 26 county republic

About 25 years I'd say. Then it will be a 32 country Republic.

Hamsterchops · 04-05-2021 5:39am

ulster wrote: »

About 25 years I'd say. Then it will be a 32 country Republic.

25 years .....

In 25 years time many of us may not be around anymore, the Tricolour will be decomissioned, the National anthem too. A new 'all inclusive' island might appear, with a new identity, a new flag, a new anthem, a new outlook ...

Wonder will it ever happen though?

upupup · 04-05-2021 6:10am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

25 years .....

In 25 years time many of us may not be around anymore, the Tricolour will be decomissioned, the National anthem too. A new 'all inclusive' island might appear, with a new identity, a new flag, a new anthem, a new outlook ...

Wonder will it ever happen though?

If that were to happen,it would only be a gesture of good faith but the new flag would not be flown by the public in the south and the anthem would not be played.The new flag and anthem would be forgotten quickly

04-05-2021 9:34am

Not much of a gesture of good faith then really?

FrancieBrady · 04-05-2021 9:54am

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Not much of a gesture of good faith then really?

If flags and anthems are 'decommissioned' solely to appease belligerence then that will fail.

Flags and anthems should be discussed on a reasoned basis. If there are better options that all can get behind then by all means change them.
I was never a fan of the anthem so would welcome a new one. As yet, I have seen no better idea for the flag.

upupup · 04-05-2021 11:42am

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Not much of a gesture of good faith then really?

I would assume that the irish government at the time would do it in good faith but the reality is it would never be taken seriously by the public..just like the oath of allegiance doomed to fail

SafeSurfer · 04-05-2021 12:42pm

downcow wrote: »

Happy birthday to the Republic of Ireland. 100 years old today.
Here’s to many more years as a 26 county republic

The Republic of Ireland is only 72 years old.

How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

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