Social and NGO housing concentration in Dublin City Center, time to say enough?

Kermit.de.frog · 29-04-2021 06:17PM #1

Dublin City Council and various NGO's like the one run by Peter McVerry are in the process of further ghettoising Dublin City Center through new social only housing developments.

With crime and casual violence escalating in there is it not time for a radical rethink before the center of our capital city becomes no go?

Let's be honest, it's been teethering for years but seems to me it's going over the edge now.

It's willful vandalism at this stage by the authorities and people are going to be driven out because it's becoming unsafe.

I have just seen a shocking story being talked about on Twitter about a pregnant woman on Dame Street who was assaulted and lost her child.

https://twitter.com/DaveyDonn/status/1387685950780854272

As bad as this is I'm not surprised.

Sadly assaults, and random unprovoked attacks, are an every day issue now and marauding gangs of youths, drug addicts and petty criminals.

Our city center is not just important for us but imagine how visitors feel as well. It's also important for the country. Businesses will have to move on as well and the place will be hollowed out.

The problems come from the preponderance of existing and being built social and NGO housing complexes. That is where the problems start.

They are being concentrated in a relatively geographically small area and how can anyone be surprised when it effects our main streets, the center of the city.

Yet instead of calling a halt the council seem intent on making things worse.

I've just read about a brand new social housing only scheme on Talbot St to be built (because that's exactly what Dublin 1 needs).
But there is many more planned or under construction.

It's not so much the social housing but the fact these are not mixed developments so the council is expanding ghettos.

Why are they doing this knowing the consequences?

I really think they need to reassess.

At the very least every development should be mixed. Otherwise they just dumping all societies ills in to a place people will not want to visit in my view.

sabat · 29-04-2021 06:30PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I've just read about a brand new social housing only scheme on Talbot St to be built (because that's exactly what Dublin 1 needs).

Do you have a link to that?

Ronaldinho · 29-04-2021 06:31PM

Better that any/all bad eggs are put in the one spot than terrorizing estates where punters are on the hook for their mortgage.

Kermit.de.frog · 29-04-2021 06:37PM

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Better that any/all bad eggs are put in the one spot than terrorizing estates where punters are on the hook for their mortgage.

We were told there would be no more Ballymuns, that housing would be mixed.

Whilst your view is understandable is the center of our city worth the price?

Personally I don't think it is.

Kermit.de.frog · 29-04-2021 06:39PM

sabat wrote: »

Do you have a link to that?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/city-councillors-block-sale-of-dublin-s-plough-pub-1.4536468?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

29-04-2021 06:39PM

What does the assault on dame street have to do with it?

corner of hells · 29-04-2021 06:45PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/city-councillors-block-sale-of-dublin-s-plough-pub-1.4536468?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Did you read the article?

jimmycrackcorm · 29-04-2021 06:46PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We were told there would be no more Ballymuns, that housing would be mixed.

Whilst your view is understandable is the center of our city worth the price?

Personally, I don't think it is.

The desire for mixed housing is to ensure that anti-social behaviour doesn't look quite as bad if it is spread around rather than concentrated in one area.

City centre social housing should be prioritized to provide affordable housing for low paid city workers. There is simply no valid reason to provide social housing in the centre of the city while low paid essential workers have to pay a premium to commute to their jobs.

corner of hells · 29-04-2021 06:47PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Dublin City Council and various NGO's like the one run by Peter McVerry are in the process of further ghettoising Dublin City Center through new social only housing developments.

With crime and casual violence escalating in there is it not time for a radical rethink before the center of our capital city becomes no go?

Let's be honest, it's been teethering for years but seems to me it's going over the edge now.

It's willful vandalism at this stage by the authorities and people are going to be driven out because it's becoming unsafe.

I have just seen a shocking story being talked about on Twitter about a pregnant woman on Dame Street who was assaulted and lost her child.

https://twitter.com/DaveyDonn/status/1387685950780854272

As bad as this is I'm not surprised.

Sadly assaults, and random unprovoked attacks, are an every day issue now and marauding gangs of youths, drug addicts and petty criminals.

Our city center is not just important for us but imagine how visitors feel as well. It's also important for the country. Businesses will have to move on as well and the place will be hollowed out.

The problems come from the preponderance of existing and being built social and NGO housing complexes. That is where the problems start.

They are being concentrated in a relatively geographically small area and how can anyone be surprised when it effects our main streets, the center of the city.

Yet instead of calling a halt the council seem intent on making things worse.

I've just read about a brand new social housing only scheme on Talbot St to be built (because that's exactly what Dublin 1 needs).
But there is many more planned or under construction.

It's not so much the social housing but the fact these are not mixed developments so the council is expanding ghettos.

Why are they doing this knowing the consequences?

I really think they need to reassess.

At the very least every development should be mixed. Otherwise they just dumping all societies ills in to a place people will not want to visit in my view.

Peter Mcverry doesnt run "Peter McVerry" , its has a CEO over 15 years now along with a board of directors.

Ronaldinho · 29-04-2021 06:47PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We were told there would be no more Ballymuns, that housing would be mixed.

Whilst your view is understandable is the center of our city worth the price?

Personally I don't think it is.

From a 10,000 foot view, with no skin in the game - your approach is probably the best over the long term to try and break cycles of inter generational scumminess.

Problem is, it can go horribly wrong and make decent, hard-working, law-abiding peoples' lives a living misery. Have seen plenty of threads on Boards over the years confirming same.

Kermit.de.frog · 29-04-2021 07:04PM

Ronaldinho wrote: »

From a 10,000 foot view, with no skin in the game - your approach is probably the best over the long term to try and break cycles of inter generational scumminess.

Problem is, it can go horribly wrong and make decent, hard-working, law-abiding peoples' lives a living misery. Have seen plenty of threads on Boards over the years confirming same.

I agree but some of this is down to the council not dealing with problem tenants. Only takes one dysfunctional family to bring down a whole complex/street. Lots of stories of how the council is slow to act if at all.

Floppybits · 29-04-2021 07:09PM

Ronaldinho wrote: »

From a 10,000 foot view, with no skin in the game - your approach is probably the best over the long term to try and break cycles of inter generational scumminess.

Problem is, it can go horribly wrong and make decent, hard-working, law-abiding peoples' lives a living misery. Have seen plenty of threads on Boards over the years confirming same.

The problem is that scumbags are in all walks of live and not just confined to those in social housing. Its the authorities should be dealing with it by having tougher legislation and enforcing it. No one should be allowed make someone's else life a misery and then having those being tormented by the scumbags having to jump through hoops to get anything done and even the scumbags just laugh.

If we had tougher sanctions and hit the scumbags where it hurts either in the pocket or evicting them and not have it take 20 years maybe we might see less of this type of behavior.

Shebean · 29-04-2021 07:31PM

Talk about burying the lead.
The article is about the council selling public property to build private apartments it will then likely rent off the owner.
The thread should be re labeled 'giving out about scrotes'.

More affordable or social would go to those front line low income workers you speak of and the odd scrote.

corner of hells · 29-04-2021 08:00PM

Floppybits wrote: »

The problem is that scumbags are in all walks of live and not just confined to those in social housing. Its the authorities should be dealing with it by having tougher legislation and enforcing it. No one should be allowed make someone's else life a misery and then having those being tormented by the scumbags having to jump through hoops to get anything done and even the scumbags just laugh.

If we had tougher sanctions and hit the scumbags where it hurts either in the pocket or evicting them and not have it take 20 years maybe we might see less of this type of behavior.

Its actually difficult now to access social housing if you have a history of anti social behaviour and or multiple convictions. Its difficult to evict but if you are evicted you may never be housed in social housing again.

ThunbergsAreGo · 29-04-2021 08:18PM

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Better that any/all bad eggs are put in the one spot than terrorizing estates where punters are on the hook for their mortgage.

Not when that spot is bang smack in the city centre

Biker79 · 29-04-2021 08:59PM

I live in the city centre, along with lots of regular people who work and have normal lives.

Ive never seen it as bad. From Heuston to O'Connell St, it's full of ' drug people '.

29-04-2021 09:27PM

"Shocking story" OP?

Ah not really. Its a tough area. These 3 just off the top of my head without really thinking about it.

www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/luas-savage-attack-gardai-dublin-19846587.amp

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/boy-15-charged-with-fatal-stabbing-of-woman-at-ifsc-further-remanded-1.4518929?mode=amp

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/news-opinion/pat-flanagan-tragic-brazilian-deliveryman-22631079.amp

Kermit.de.frog · 29-04-2021 09:29PM

Biker79 wrote: »

I live in the city centre, along with lots of regular people who work and have normal lives.

Ive never seen it as bad. From Heuston to O'Connell St, it's full of ' drug people '.

It's hard to tell how much of it was always there, just hidden more with stores open and people going about their business.

Or, as I worry, that it has gone to the dogs completely. It was always on edge as I said in the OP. You didn't have to look that deeply to see serious issues just under the surface.

Of course there are no gardai to be seen and the judges are off their heads.

What goes around comes around and everyone has connived to make a complete dive of a good chunk of our capital city. In most countries it would be the pride and joy, well planned, maintained and policed.

I just don't think people care enough.

29-04-2021 09:48PM

Biker79 wrote: »

I live in the city centre, along with lots of regular people who work and have normal lives.

Ive never seen it as bad. From Heuston to O'Connell St, it's full of ' drug people '.

Was training in Fairview Park on Tuesday kicking some balls into the GAA goals. Two lads sat behind the goals where I was kicking whipped of their socks and started shooting up into their feet. Zero ****s given.

See it every day around town. The drug problem is absolutely chronic. Rutland St off the Summerhill Primary Care is the walking dead but worse.

I was giving out about the same issues a decade ago Tbf.

Richard Hillman · 29-04-2021 09:54PM

Dublin will turn into what LA and San Francisco is now. Homeless addicts everywhere, tent villages lining the streets, human ****e all over the streets. We already have roaming gangs in the suburbs.

ThunbergsAreGo · 29-04-2021 09:55PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I just don't think people care enough.

I think that's it, most just happy to chug along

Biker79 · 29-04-2021 10:05PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's hard to tell how much of it was always there, just hidden more with stores open and people going about their business.

Or, as I worry, that it has gone to the dogs completely. It was always on edge as I said in the OP. You didn't have to look that deeply to see serious issues just under the surface.

Of course there are no gardai to be seen and the judges are off their heads.

What goes around comes around and everyone has connived to make a complete dive of a good chunk of our capital city. In most countries it would be the pride and joy, well planned, maintained and policed.

I just don't think people care enough.

It was always there. But once the ratio of drug people to regular people is low, some sort of balance is maintained. Then it's just like any other large city, more or less.

These days...I'd say 50 % of the people on the streets of the city centre are in bad shape. From Talbot ST to Heuston Station...if you walked down ...everywhere you'd look there are drug/ tent / homeless/ salvation army/ P McVerry people. Most will never have a normal life again.

Nobody is talking about it. The scale of it. Its weird.

jay0109 · 29-04-2021 10:19PM

The population is growing rapidly but no new prisons or prison places being created. You are deemed to be a 'conservative' or 'right wing' if you even suggest spending more money on those 2 issues.
We have a judicial system that actively seeks to keep hardened criminals on the streets as that's seen to be progressive and liberal (it also helps make many in the legal industry very wealthy).

It's only going to get worse

skimpydoo · 29-04-2021 10:48PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/city-councillors-block-sale-of-dublin-s-plough-pub-1.4536468?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Thats not Talbot St.

Ronaldinho · 29-04-2021 11:27PM

550k for that! Surely it's worth multiples of that.

29-04-2021 11:36PM

Seems a great idea to me. You can hide the **** that goes on in the suburbs or the countryside, but if it's happening in center of the capital, it'll be next to impossible to dismiss. Any negative consequence to this development will be there for everyone to see.

Excellent.

KungPao · 29-04-2021 11:41PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Dublin will turn into what LA and San Francisco is now. Homeless addicts everywhere, tent villages lining the streets, human ****e all over the streets. We already have roaming gangs in the suburbs.

We're sleep-walking into a real mess. I've been to Rio and Sao Paulo, lovely places (in most parts), but everyone has to have fences on their perimeters, and pretty much treat everyone as a potential highwayman. We're heading there, with our open borders and impotent police force.

end of the road · 30-04-2021 12:40AM

Cal Croydon wrote: »

I agree largely with your OP but not on this point. They should not be mixed. The flats in the IFSC are "mixed". You have feral kids running amok terrorizing the young professionals in the hallways. Drug dealing and anti-social behaviour. If you just took out a mortgage for €300k to buy a private unit, and 30% of your neighbours are on the social, why would you want to inflict that on them?

because a mortgage only entitles you to ownership of the property upon full repayment of that mortgage, and nothing else, until then technically it's the bank's house.
you are not entitled to be surrounded by only mortgage holders, etc, that is just a personal want or wish which nobody has any obligation to deliver to you, or will ever have such an obligation.

Cal Croydon wrote: »

The answer is to have 100% social housing but far from the city centre. Out of sight and out of mind.

we already tried it and it failed spectacularly and cost us billions in the form of regeneration.
i know there is a belief in ireland from some that trying the same failures will equal success the second time but that is not going to happen.

end of the road · 30-04-2021 12:54AM

jay0109 wrote: »

The population is growing rapidly but no new prisons or prison places being created. You are deemed to be a 'conservative' or 'right wing' if you even suggest spending more money on those 2 issues.
We have a judicial system that actively seeks to keep hardened criminals on the streets as that's seen to be progressive and liberal (it also helps make many in the legal industry very wealthy).

It's only going to get worse

one does not get labeled conservative or right wing for wanting to build more prisons and spaces as such is not right wing or conservative.
however one will get labeled when you want to put people into those spaces for things it would not be possible for the criminal justice system to ever effectively deal with.
wanting more spaces and using those effectively for things the criminal justice system actually needs to, and can deal with, is the key.

30-04-2021 01:05AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seems a great idea to me. You can hide the **** that goes on in the suburbs or the countryside, but if it's happening in center of the capital, it'll be next to impossible to dismiss. Any negative consequence to this development will be there for everyone to see.

Excellent.

Social problems in the capital have been in plain view and dismissed for a good 30 years now.

Eric Cartman · 30-04-2021 06:19AM

We need a scum village model, like the dutch (thats their name for it)

Firstly there should never again be a social house built within the m50 , with the current stock sold off as units become available, dublin should be a city for those who contribute, not those who detract.

Social tenants who work and behave should be placed in suburbs among other affordable housing in mixed developments,

The trouble makers and lifelong dole crowd should all be given only the option of remotely located ‘scum villages’ which are effectively like soft prisons, over policed, super concentrated with governmemt provided services , further education etc...

Social and NGO housing concentration in Dublin City Center, time to say enough?

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