Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

28-04-2021 11:51PM

Hulk Hands wrote: »

No outdoor dining back to 7th June now not 24th May means no actual proper dining until August realistically. "Need to see the effect of outdoor first" "takes time for effect of opening outdoor to be known" "we gave you hospitality (for a select few), now go away and behave yourselves".

Paddy is over the moon and beyond. A few mickey mouse concessions have him dancing a jig. And if we're good lickle boys and girls we could tiptoe indoors by July. That Covid, it nicked the last bar stool and glowers if you tread near the mane yoke.

It's pathetic how excessively cautious we are compared to our continental neighbours, and then are expected to display fawning appreciation towards daddy government for being allowed the most basic of freedoms. Archbishop McQuaid would approve.

28-04-2021 11:54PM

Graham wrote: »

So not cherry picking restrictions then?

As has already been pointed out we're only a few weeks behind the UK who are much further along their vaccination program.

Read my post, take a look around Europe and you will see regarding outdoor dining. Netherland open now, Belgium May 8th, France mid may, Germany, Italy, Spain. Take your pick and maybe do a bit of reading.

Graham · 28-04-2021 11:57PM

davidod1983 wrote: »

Read my post, take a look around Europe and you will see regarding outdoor dining. France mid may, Germany, Italy, Spain. Take your pick and maybe do a bit of reading.

I've no doubt some countries have permitted outdoor dining before us. Different countries are prioritising different restrictions.

It's hardly surprising is it?

suicide_circus · 29-04-2021 12:00AM

Alma Lemon Rebellion wrote: »

death to the 9e meal. what a time to be alive.

But the 9euro meal kept the disease at bay, did it not?

29-04-2021 12:00AM

Graham wrote: »

I've no doubt some countries have permitted outdoor dining before us. Different countries are prioritising different restrictions.

It's hardly surprising is it?

Rowing back on the cherry picking now I see when you realise it's almost all of Western Europe.
We are extremely risk adverse regarding outdoor activities when all the data suggests otherwise.

Graham · 29-04-2021 12:03AM

davidod1983 wrote: »

Rowing back on the cherry picking now I see when you realise it's almost all of Western Europe.
We are extremely risk adverse regarding outdoor activities.

When some of your examples haven't yet actually relaxed the restrictions, I think my comment stands.

29-04-2021 12:07AM

Graham wrote: »

When some of your examples haven't yet actually relaxed the restrictions, I think my comment stands.

I said one of the slowest and have provided plenty examples of places currently opened and are opening on said dates well ahead of our restrictions.

Graham · 29-04-2021 12:08AM

Picked 4 countries to check:

France - Easing of restrictions announced
Germany - Restaurants and cafes must remain closed
Spain - Outdoor dining permitted subject to strict spacing
Belgium - Al Fresco from mid-may
Holland - outdoor dining from yesterday

So, we're neither the strictest nor the most relaxed.

29-04-2021 12:12AM

Graham wrote: »

Picked 4 countries to check:

France - Easing of restrictions announced
Germany - Restaurants and cafes must remain closed
Spain - Outdoor dining permitted subject to strict spacing
Belgium - Al Fresco from mid-may
Netherlands - open dining from yesterday

Crikey, on that alone you are providing 4 examples of countries opening ahead of ours & they have announced, that's exactly what i was saying, of course opening here with outdoors will have restrictions.

charlie14 · 29-04-2021 12:14AM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

And again, this is a change of goalposts. This was never about "severe pressure" -- it was pressure to the extent of being unable to cope, and this incapacity would be to such a degree and duration that many thousands would die. If severe pressure was the threshold, you'll be on here many winters throughout your life seeking lockdowns. To say that people were scared of this virus because it might cause "severe pressure" to the health service is a distinct relegation of the severity of the threat this virus was touted as posing.

And you may well have always held that infections should be minimised by every means possible -- but the Irish people were certainly never presented the lockdown strategy on the basis of simply minimising Covid outright. Lockdown was an extreme unprecedented measure which was justified by the Government as being the response to the extreme scenario that (by not flattening the curve) the Irish health service would not just be under severe pressure -- but completely and utterly overrun for an indeterminate period, leading to many, many thousands dead.

Ultimately Charlie, you are rewriting the justification for lockdown -- and I can hardly blame you for that, because this gradual rewriting has been hammered out by the government and press as if it had always been consistent.

If anyone is attempting to change the goalposts here I`m afraid it is very much you Arthur. Along with a fair old measure of avoidance as well.

One of the aims of lockdown was to prevent health services from being over-run. Something we saw, and are still seeing, in countries before lockdowns were introduced. Far as I recall one of your points has been that ours was not over-run as shown by our I.C.U. numbers.
Low infection numbers will ensure lower hospitalisations and thus lower numbers requiring I.C.U. To believe lockdown played no part is denying reality Arthur.

Apparently your idea as to what level of restrictions we should have had all along are those you listed in your last post.
Those were tried in Sweden. Still are. Looking at their data, that`s a bullet we would not have missed following your alternative to lockdown.

Graham · 29-04-2021 12:18AM

davidod1983 wrote: »

Crikey, on that alone you are providing 4 examples of countries opening ahead of ours

Incredible isn't it. It's quite possible to make a point without cherry picking.

It certainly puts the "we're the worst" nonsense to bed.

Loafing Oaf · 29-04-2021 12:18AM

davidod1983 wrote: »

Crikey, on that alone you are providing 4 examples of countries opening ahead of ours

By what is almost certainly going to be a few weeks. Who is so fanatical about 'outdoor dining' in our climate anyway?

Graham · 29-04-2021 12:20AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

By what is almost certainly going to be a few weeks. Who is so fanatical about 'outdoor dining' in our climate anyway?

I think the idea was it would highlight how we're the absolutely most restrictive country ever.

Unfortunately the idea is unsupported by reality.

PTH2009 · 29-04-2021 12:22AM

Jesus the Wedding numbers is a farce

Sure 50 of ye can come to the church but only 24 of ye coming to the hotel

29-04-2021 12:23AM

Graham wrote: »

Incredible isn't it. It's quite possible to make a point without cherry picking.

It certainly puts the "we're the worst" nonsense to bed.

Out of your examples you couldn't provide 1 example of a place as restrictive as us for outdoor dining, Germany has been open at times for outdoor dining in last few months, we haven't been. Again we are the most restrictive of your cherry licked list for outdoor dining and outdoor dining plans. Can't be so hard to say you didn't know I guess.

KrustyUCC · 29-04-2021 12:28AM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Jesus the Wedding numbers is a farce

Sure 50 of ye can come to the church but only 24 of ye coming to the hotel

All about the worry with alcohol unfortunately

Graham · 29-04-2021 12:30AM

davidod1983 wrote: »

Germany has been open at times for outdoor dining in last few months, we haven't been

Great example.

Germany has in the last few days had to apply the "emergency break"

I'd rather we didn't.

charlie14 · 29-04-2021 12:32AM

LMAO at the usual suspects still whinging and crying even now when all their doomsday predictions on opening up and Dr. Tony Holohan are looking very very foolish.

29-04-2021 12:37AM

Graham wrote: »

Great example.

Germany has in the last few days had to apply the "emergency break"

I'd rather we didn't.

I'd rather we make data driven decisions when cases are so low to allow people back to work in a safe environment which is what outdoor activities are. That's what Germany does and will reopen again when their case numbers go below a threshold. They operate of a seven-day incidence rate threshold of 100 new infections per 100,000 and it is entirely sensible and have shown to be flexible to open when it falls unlike us.

Graham · 29-04-2021 12:44AM

davidod1983 wrote: »

I'd rather we make data driven decisions when cases are so low to allow people back to work in a safe environment which is what outdoor activities are.

Ohh ok, that's an interesting change in perspective.

I thought you wanted decisions to be based on what you imagined more relaxed restrictions our EU neighbours had.

I can understand why you'd want to change position now

29-04-2021 12:50AM

Graham wrote: »

Ohh ok, that's an interesting change in perspective.

I thought you wanted decisions to be based on what you imagined more relaxed restrictions our EU neighbours had.

I can understand why you'd want to change position now

Which is what other EU countries do aka Germany and we don't - precisely my arguement. Quite simple really but I guess it's hard to accept you were wrong here when all information you have seen here has showed you.

gozunda · 29-04-2021 12:51AM

davidod1983 wrote: »

Read my post, take a look around Europe and you will see regarding outdoor dining. Netherland open now, Belgium May 8th, France mid may, Germany, Italy, Spain. Take your pick and maybe do a bit of reading.

I know for a fact that restaurants and cafes in Germany are shut.

In contrast to here and recent announcements - Germany has seen a whole raft of restrictions imposed nationwide due to the recent rise in the rate of infection there

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germanys-emergency-brake-rules-take-effect/a-57321750

Bit cynical · 29-04-2021 12:55AM

Graham wrote: »

I think the idea was it would highlight how we're the absolutely most restrictive country ever.

Unfortunately the idea is unsupported by reality.

In fairness we're fairly restrictive by EU standards and have been throughout the pandemic. The chart below shows that we tend to be at the top or close to it.

I think the reason many of us such as yourself don't think so is because we've kind of got used to it because it has gone on so long in Ireland with so little let up. The only time we were below average for the EU was a brief period of a couple of weeks in the summer. Even the Christmas relaxation that people go on about was still quite restrictive by EU standards. It has become the "new normal".

The problem of course is that because we have so overused lockdowns it is going to be hard politically to lift them even when it is in the best interests of the country to do so. This means we could have some form of restrictions long after other countries have abandoned them.

gozunda · 29-04-2021 01:03AM

Bit cynical wrote: »

In fairness where fairly restrictive by EU standards and have been throughout the pandemic. The chart below shows that we tend to be at the top or close to it.

I think the reason many of us such as yourself don't think so is because we've kind of got used to it. It has become the "new normal".

Are we though or is that something we're telling ourselves? A lot of the low outliers you've included are Eastern European Countries.

Took this from the WID Stringency Index the other day

Included are Ireland and a number of our favourite EU holiday destinations

And guess what? Looks like there's bugger all difference atm between us.

With Greece leading the Pack and Ireland and Italy having the same scores atm. And then with periods of time we're at the bottom of that graph.

Graham · 29-04-2021 01:06AM

Bit cynical wrote: »

In fairness we're fairly restrictive by EU standards and have been throughout the pandemic. The chart below shows that we tend to be at the top or close to it.

Agreed we do tend to be at the top of the chart although the chart doesn't show how lightly the restrictions are actually enforced. Despite that until quite recently we've done quite well at adhering to them.

The result is we're now in a very strong position which bodes very well for the rest of the year for us.

I think that's a good position to be in as we approach summer.

Graham · 29-04-2021 01:11AM

davidod1983 wrote: »

Which is what other EU countries do aka Germany and we don't - precisely my arguement. Quite simple really but I guess it's hard to accept you were wrong here when all information you have seen here has showed you.

You'd rather we were like Germany applying the emergency break now and increasing restrictions rather than easing them?

That's a rather odd viewpoint.

Bit cynical · 29-04-2021 01:14AM

gozunda wrote: »

Are we though or is that something we're telling ourselves?

I am not sure what that question means. I was merely refuting a point someone else had made with data. We tend to be at the top of the EU in terms of restrictions.

Bit cynical · 29-04-2021 01:23AM

Graham wrote: »

The result is we're now in a very strong position which bodes very well for the rest of the year for us.

I think that's a good position to be in as we approach summer.

Good position for what?

Graham · 29-04-2021 01:27AM

Bit cynical wrote: »

Good position for what?

Relaxing restrictions, having a summer, a much reduced risk of restrictions being reversed.

Compared to some of our EU neighbours that are currently increasing restrictions, I know which position I'd prefer to be in.

Bit cynical · 29-04-2021 01:35AM

Graham wrote: »

Relaxing restrictions, having a summer, a much reduced risk of restrictions being reversed.

Compared to some of our EU neighbours that are currently increasing restrictions, I know which position I'd prefer to be in.

But how does being in heavy restrictions for a long time make it easier to open up? Yes we start off with low numbers, but as people make up for lost time with increased socialising, this leads to rising numbers and the tendency to reimpose restrictions. This is not the case to the same extent with countries that allowed some social outlets.

The summer weather and the vaccinations that have occurred help, of course, but these factors help either way.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings