Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

#1 · 23-04-2021 7:13am #1

According to this ridiculous conspiracy theory no serious side effects were reported after taking Sinovac and Sputnik vaccines. Sure who would trust Mexicans (re Sputnik) or Chileans (re Sinovac).

Not to mention that this conspiracy is promoted in article on RT which is state sponsored propaganda mouthpiece (well sometimes they are considered as news source by the same people calling them out depends on article in question).

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/521846-covid-vaccine-eu-us-cooperation/
By Marcello Ferrada de Noli, Swedish professor emeritus of public health sciences esp. epidemiology, former Research Fellow at Harvard Medical School.

Surely Swedish scientists are not to be taken seriously given what Sweden did

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Dohnjoe · 23-04-2021 1:17pm

RT is Russian State propaganda

Marcello Ferrada de Noli (of course) is controversial and is considered a tool of Russian propaganda by Reporters Without Borders, Swedish newspapers and other European press
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcello_Ferrada_de_Noli

And the Germans are in talks to buy Sputnik vaccine

ShatterAlan · 23-04-2021 10:04pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

RT is Russian State propaganda

Marcello Ferrada de Noli (of course) is controversial and is considered a tool of Russian propaganda by Reporters Without Borders, Swedish newspapers and other European press
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcello_Ferrada_de_Noli

And the Germans are in talks to buy Sputnik vaccine

I believe the Germans have already taken in close to one million doses of the Sputnik V vaccine.

patnor1011 · 24-04-2021 6:18am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I believe the Germans have already taken in close to one million doses of the Sputnik V vaccine.

They are taking 10M doses every month for the next 3 months and if there will be demand they want more.

They are cheaper, more available, offer similar protection and no serious side effects reported so far. Why are we not buying them since we are still struggle to repay our debt most of which was incurred during Fiannancial Fáil government?

Darc19 · 24-04-2021 6:34am

patnor1011 wrote: »

They are taking 10M doses every month for the next 3 months and if there will be demand they want more.

They are cheaper, more available, offer similar protection and no serious side effects reported so far. Why are we not buying them since we are still struggle to repay our debt most of which was incurred during Fiannancial Fáil government?

Because we now have more than enough vaccine coming through.

But sure SF/IRA apologists can't be bothered to check facts.

Allinall · 24-04-2021 6:42am

patnor1011 wrote: »

They are taking 10M doses every month for the next 3 months and if there will be demand they want more.

They are cheaper, more available, offer similar protection and no serious side effects reported so far. Why are we not buying them since we are still struggle to repay our debt most of which was incurred during Fiannancial Fáil government?

How are we struggling to repay our debt?

Have we missed any payments?
Have we been late with any payments?
Have any of our creditors called in their debt early?

What has any of this got to do with Russian vaccines?

astrofool · 24-04-2021 3:17pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I believe the Germans have already taken in close to one million doses of the Sputnik V vaccine.

patnor1011 wrote: »

They are taking 10M doses every month for the next 3 months and if there will be demand they want more.

They are cheaper, more available, offer similar protection and no serious side effects reported so far. Why are we not buying them since we are still struggle to repay our debt most of which was incurred during Fiannancial Fáil government?

According to the reports, they are planning to by 30M to be delivered in June, July and August. No Sputnik have been administered in Germany so far as it hasn't been approved by the EMA.

I would be sceptical of this going ahead as the amount of Pfizer on supply would mean that Sputnik becomes excess stock.

It's also very likely to have the same side effects as AZ and J&J as they are very similar vaccines.

The cost of the vaccines isn't really part of the equations, they're cheap enough vs. the economy shutdowns that the best vaccine is the one you can buy earliest.

Pfizer are also planning on charging richer countries more so they can subsidise developing countries.

patnor1011 · 27-04-2021 9:38am

Allinall wrote: »

How are we struggling to repay our debt?

Have we missed any payments?
Have we been late with any payments?
Have any of our creditors called in their debt early?

What has any of this got to do with Russian vaccines?

Yes we are struggling to repay our debt. Since we added much more in the last year it make perfect sense to try to buy cheaper stuff. It is not just Russian but also Chinese vaccine. Also since there are no severe adverse reactions reported so far seems like a good opportunity to let people choose which one they want if they actually want it.

astrofool · 27-04-2021 10:00am

patnor1011 wrote: »

Yes we are struggling to repay our debt. Since we added much more in the last year it make perfect sense to try to buy cheaper stuff. It is not just Russian but also Chinese vaccine. Also since there are no severe adverse reactions reported so far seems like a good opportunity to let people choose which one they want if they actually want it.

It makes no sense if they haven't been approved and don't have plentiful supplies anyway. The cost of the vaccines is not an issue.

patnor1011 · 27-04-2021 9:21pm

astrofool wrote: »

It makes no sense if they haven't been approved and don't have plentiful supplies anyway. The cost of the vaccines is not an issue.

They have been approved in many countries which do use them daily. They are being used even in EU countries like Hungary.
If we are in the middle of supposedly "deadly pandemic" there is no excuse of not using them. Mainly since there is no issue with them as we see with other "approved" vaccines. You seems to live in some bubble thinking that there are plentiful supplies anywhere. Most of the world did not receive next to none of "approved" vaccines and if you think we can rest easy having what we have while over half of the world have none think again.

odyssey06 · 27-04-2021 9:25pm

Brazilian regulator blocks sputnik approval

Anvisa said it had no or insufficient data on the vaccine's "quality control, safety and efficacy" and that an inspection mission sent to Russia was also unable to "identify the manufacturers of the biological pharmaceutical input used in the production of the Russian vaccine."

https://www.euronews.com/2021/04/27/brazilian-regulator-rejects-use-of-russia-s-sputnik-v-covid-19-vaccine

astrofool · 27-04-2021 10:52pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

They have been approved in many countries which do use them daily. They are being used even in EU countries like Hungary.
If we are in the middle of supposedly "deadly pandemic" there is no excuse of not using them. Mainly since there is no issue with them as we see with other "approved" vaccines. You seems to live in some bubble thinking that there are plentiful supplies anywhere. Most of the world did not receive next to none of "approved" vaccines and if you think we can rest easy having what we have while over half of the world have none think again.

You wanted it used because it was cheap, now it's because it's plentiful (it's not), even if we decided we wanted to use it today it would take months for supply to arrive, by which time we'll have already finished vaccinating with the already approved vaccines.

King Mob · 28-04-2021 12:11am

patnor1011 wrote: »

If we are in the middle of supposedly "deadly pandemic" .

We are in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
Covid has killed more than 3.1 million people.
You keep denying this number then running away when you're asked to support this denial.

There's no "supposedly" and there's no need for "scare quotes".

So what do you believe is the real reason for governments not using this particular vaccine?

Also I'm curious what testing and research went into this vaccine that makes you confident in it when you keep falsely claiming that the other vaccines have not been tested for safety.
If memory serves this vaccine was out before the other vaccines, which would mean it had even less long term safety trials, so it's strange that's not an issue for you.

patnor1011 · 28-04-2021 3:30am

King Mob wrote: »

We are in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
Covid has killed more than 3.1 million people.
You keep denying this number then running away when you're asked to support this denial.

No buddy, I stop reacting to your posts as you do have tendency to twist and lie. I did not disputed that number. There was no denial I merely pointed out that in terms of global deaths occurring per year it is very small number. You do have covid blinders on and see 3 million refusing to acknowledge that over 20x more people died last year from other things. So stop this childish tactic you seems to employ time and again saying that someone else said something when you know it is just your own interpretation of what was written all the while you claim people said that.

King Mob wrote: »

Also I'm curious what testing and research went into this vaccine that makes you confident in it when you keep falsely claiming that the other vaccines have not been tested for safety.

Again lie. Where did I claim other vaccines have not been tested for safety?

King Mob wrote: »

If memory serves this vaccine was out before the other vaccines, which would mean it had even less long term safety trials, so it's strange that's not an issue for you.

It is not strange if you try to comprehend what you read. What I was saying here is that there was no serious health damage or death reported in connection with russian and chinese vaccine so far compared to what was reported in connection with other vaccines.

None of vaccines out there have finished long term studies as they are ongoing.

As I said in other thread you simply keep twisting what was said and putting your own words in someone else mouth. So again, I said nothing of what you claim I said. It happened in your head only.

King Mob · 28-04-2021 4:54am

patnor1011 wrote: »

No buddy, I stop reacting to your posts as you do have tendency to twist and lie.

Huh. I thought you stopped cause I showed that this particular objection you were having turned out to be false.

For example you denied saying that "the covid vaccines weren't vaccines".
I pointed out the exact quote where you did this.
You didn't respond.

So I think what is clear here is that when you're called up on particular conspiracy claims you backpeddle.

patnor1011 wrote: »

I did not disputed that number. There was no denial I merely pointed out that in terms of global deaths occurring per year it is very small number.

Ok.
So by what definition is 3.1 million deaths "supposedly deadly".
If it kills a lot of people it's deadly. No need for "supposedly".

Also it's good to see you reject all the conspiracy claims that the number is exaggerated.

patnor1011 wrote: »

Again lie. Where did I claim other vaccines have not been tested for safety?

Ok. This is another backpeddle.
But that's fine.

Do you believe that the Russian vaccine has been more extensively tested? Or are all the vaccines equally well tested?

patnor1011 wrote: »

It is not strange if you try to comprehend what you read. What I was saying here is that there was no serious health damage or death reported in connection with russian and chinese vaccine so far compared to what was reported in connection with other vaccines.

But the reports of side effects in the other vaccines have not been shown to be due to the vaccines.
And on top of that the number of reported possible side effects have been a mictoscoping amount compared to the number of vaccines received. I remind you, you are passing off 3.1 million deaths as a "small number". So it doesn't make a ton of sense that you'd be concerned about a few hundred(?) cases of blood clots.

Additionally I'm not sure what metric you are using to determine that the vaccines you like have not had similar connections like you made using the VAERS data.
Are potential adverse effects of those vaccines recorded in the same manner? If so how did you check the data?

patnor1011 wrote: »

None of vaccines out there have finished long term studies as they are ongoing.

Ok. So then do you believe that the Russian and Chinese vaccines are more, less or equally as likely to have unknown side effects as other vaccines?

Now if your concern is that you will be misunderstood I suggest answer these simple questions directly and clearly.

patnor1011 · 28-04-2021 11:28pm

It make no sense to talk with someone who when caught making false statements about what other people said and presenting them in order to somehow discredit that person disregard it as "back-peddle". It was not just me, you did this numerous times, got called on it and that is why nobody engage with you anymore. Also taking stuff out of context from entirely different thread trying to prove some point somewhere else and then coming in conclusions that people did say or reject something... You see, you take something and twist it a little or completely lie about it and then you build whole fantasy land out of it.
I get it, new people are coming here every day so you will not run out of your enjoyment trying to mock people mostly by twisting what they said or taking it out of context yet most of them who try to engage with you just a little will see it quite fast.

King Mob · 28-04-2021 11:46pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

It make no sense to talk with someone who when caught making false statements about what other people said and presenting them in order to somehow discredit that person disregard it as "back-peddle". It was not just me, you did this numerous times, got called on it and that is why nobody engage with you anymore. Also taking stuff out of context from entirely different thread trying to prove some point somewhere else and then coming in conclusions that people did say or reject something... You see, you take something and twist it a little or completely lie about it and then you build whole fantasy land out of it.
I get it, new people are coming here every day so you will not run out of your enjoyment trying to mock people mostly by twisting what they said or taking it out of context yet most of them who try to engage with you just a little will see it quite fast.

And more ranting about me than actually addressing the points and questions.
Cool.

You do realise that just ignoring points don't make them go away, right?

Darc19 · 29-04-2021 6:54am

patnor1011 wrote: »

No buddy, I stop reacting to your posts as you do have tendency to twist and lie. I did not disputed that number. There was no denial I merely pointed out that in terms of global deaths occurring per year it is very small number. You do have covid blinders on and see 3 million refusing to acknowledge that over 20x more people died last year from other things.

I heard this argument before. It was from someone with low intelligence level and they simply repeated what they heard and which suited their thoughts.

3m + died even with the near shutdown of the world economy and massive restrictions.

The shutdown was so effective that flu deaths in 2020 were negligible worldwide.

Other respiratory illnesses also saw dramatic drops to near zero.

Still 3 million died from coronavirus.

Imagine the number if action was not taken?

Dohnjoe · 29-04-2021 9:53am

Brazil has just banned import of Sputnik vaccine after they alleged certain batches were discovered to have live versions of a cold-causing virus
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210428-brazil-says-russian-covid-vaccine-carried-live-cold-virus

patnor1011 · 29-04-2021 4:55pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Brazil has just banned import of Sputnik vaccine after they alleged certain batches were discovered to have live versions of a cold-causing virus
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210428-brazil-says-russian-covid-vaccine-carried-live-cold-virus

I will borrow your favorite comparison here.
Imagine you do have bowl of sweets. Blue will give you cold and red will give you blood clots. Which one will you take?

Dohnjoe · 29-04-2021 5:10pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

I will borrow your favorite comparison here.
Imagine you do have bowl of sweets. Blue will give you cold and red will give you blood clots. Which one will you take?

Stupid analogy.

Countries are judging the vaccines for themselves, some have different standards than others.

King Mob · 29-04-2021 10:42pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

I will borrow your favorite comparison here.
Imagine you do have bowl of sweets. Blue will give you cold and red will give you blood clots. Which one will you take?

But again, you're revealing your hypocrisy.
The other vaccines have not been shown to actually cause blood clots.
There have been around 200 cases that have been possibly linked with the vaccine. That's about 200 hundred cases compared to 22 million vaccines given.
This is lower than the usual rate of blood clots from other causes.
This is significantly lower than the rate of blood clots caused by covid.
This is significantly lower than the rate of death caused by covid.

And again, to remind you, you've argued that 3 million deaths is not a statistically significant number.

Yet, despite all of this, you still claim that blood clots are a concern to you.
This is clearly not a rational concern.

patnor1011 · 29-04-2021 11:55pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Stupid analogy.

Countries are judging the vaccines for themselves, some have different standards than others.

Stupid indeed. Nevertheless it was used here many times in connection with death with covid. "bag of 67 sweets 3 of them poison would you happily dip in..."
I do believe that anyone put in question to decide if he want to chance cold or blood clots would most likely go for first one.
Or, as it is quite evident in the USA will decide to wait it out and see.

Dohnjoe · 30-04-2021 12:15am

King Mob wrote: »

But again, you're revealing your hypocrisy.
The other vaccines have not been shown to actually cause blood clots.
There have been around 200 cases that have been possibly linked with the vaccine. That's about 200 hundred cases compared to 22 million vaccines given.
This is lower than the usual rate of blood clots from other causes.
This is significantly lower than the rate of blood clots caused by covid.
This is significantly lower than the rate of death caused by covid.

And again, to remind you, you've argued that 3 million deaths is not a statistically significant number.

And that lockdowns "don't work".

Concerning the vaccines, any idea what the conspiracy angle is here?

King Mob · 30-04-2021 2:30am

patnor1011 wrote: »

Stupid indeed. Nevertheless it was used here many times in connection with death with covid. "bag of 67 sweets 3 of them poison would you happily dip in..."
I do believe that anyone put in question to decide if he want to chance cold or blood clots would most likely go for first one.
Or, as it is quite evident in the USA will decide to wait it out and see.

But it's a bad analogy.
Which would you pick from? A bag with sweets where there's a 1 in 36000 chance that you might get blood clots. (But again, that's not confirmed and still far less than the chance of getting blood clots from other sources or covid.)
A bag of sweets that someone has sneezed into?
Catch a virus that's killed 3.1 million people and caused many more side effects?

But you know that your analogy is false and dishonest.

You don't have a rational reason to be against one lot of vaccines but all for another.

patnor1011 · 30-04-2021 11:51pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

And that lockdowns "don't work".

Concerning the vaccines, any idea what the conspiracy angle is here?

They obviously do not work.
Concerning the vaccines why do you look for conspiracy? Covid vaccine is simply money making scheme. And what most of the people do not realize there will not be enough of them even for those who wants to get them. Simply due to inability to source enough of various components some of which are hard to source and cant be substituted or conjured out of thin air.
Not to mention that half of the world population simply cant afford them. Do you really think that people who want them in Ireland and will be vaccinated will be safe while virus will be freely circulating all over developing countries for years to come, think again.
Most of the people do not need them anyway as this virus is very picky who it will make sick or who will die when they get it on top of their other serious ailments.

King Mob · 01-05-2021 1:24am

patnor1011 wrote: »

They obviously do not work.

But they do.
You guys have repeated this lie over and over, but you have failed to show this is the case. You then run away from that fact and ignore things, hope people forget your embarassment and then repeat the same debunked claim.

It isn't working and only serves to make you guys look ridiculous.

patnor1011 wrote: »

Concerning the vaccines why do you look for conspiracy? Covid vaccine is simply money making scheme.

But the vaccines work also.
You seem to be shifting your position cause you can't defend whatever vague point you were trying to make about the Russian vaccine.

patnor1011 wrote: »

Most of the people do not need them anyway as this virus is very picky who it will make sick or who will die when they get it on top of their other serious ailments.

And straight up, dishonest, pathetic lie that's been debunked again and again.

Dohnjoe · 01-05-2021 8:11pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

They obviously do not work.

Ah, it's obvious, so why is every government in the world trying to reduce contact between people to reduce instances of the virus?

Concerning the vaccines why do you look for conspiracy? Covid vaccine is simply money making scheme.

A vaccine that costs money to develop, create, produce and supply doesn't do anything else?

It doesn't, for example, immunise against a virus that has already killed over 3 million people?

patnor1011 · 02-05-2021 2:22am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Ah, it's obvious, so why is every government in the world trying to reduce contact between people to reduce instances of the virus?

No, not every government in the world. But you know that.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

A vaccine that costs money to develop, create, produce and supply doesn't do anything else?

That vaccine or most of them were paid for by governments which prepaid future deliveries. Most of the money spent if not all of them came from outside sources. Problems with deliveries are coming from lax attention to quality control where contracted people sometimes inadequately trained botch up their job. There was a lot of promises how vaccine blueprint and rights from one particular company whose product is plagued with problems these days will be given freely for everyone to make their own as much as they need. Kinda reminds me our politicians who promise you everything when they come with a hat in their hand. Well, patent was sold and that vaccine will not be free or even cheap.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It doesn't, for example, immunise against a virus that has already killed over 3 million people?

You are right. It doesn't. It offer you possibility of having covid infecton milder when you eventually contract it. Which itself is hard to prove as nobody can even pretend to know how covid would hit individual with vaccine or without it. It all depends on everyone's own immune system and state of health.

King Mob · 02-05-2021 2:37am

patnor1011 wrote: »

No, not every government in the world. But you know that.

And here you've ignored Dohnjoe's point.
Why are governments using lockdowns if they don't work?
Why are organisations and experts calling for them?

Are all of these people involved in a global conspiracy to trick people into lockdowns for an ulterior motive?
Most of your conspiracy theory buddies are claiming so.
I imagine that if I suggest that this is also what you believe, you'll have another little freak out.

patnor1011 wrote: »

That vaccine or most of them were paid for by governments which prepaid future deliveries. Most of the money spent if not all of them came from outside sources. Problems with deliveries are coming from lax attention to quality control where contracted people sometimes inadequately trained botch up their job. There was a lot of promises how vaccine blueprint and rights from one particular company whose product is plagued with problems these days will be given freely for everyone to make their own as much as they need. Kinda reminds me our politicians who promise you everything when they come with a hat in their hand. Well, patent was sold and that vaccine will not be free or even cheap.

All vague waffle.
What point are you trying to make?
What has this to do with the Russian and Chinese vaccines?
Are you saying that they have had no production problems and were developed with only pure thoughts and noble intentions?

patnor1011 wrote: »

You are right. It doesn't. It offer you possibility of having covid infecton milder when you eventually contract it. Which itself is hard to prove as nobody can even pretend to know how covid would hit individual with vaccine or without it. It all depends on everyone's own immune system and state of health.

And more outright lies.

It doesn't "offer you possibility of having covid infecton milder". It grants immunity.
Studies have shown that the vaccines have and effectiveness of over 90%

I again suspect you, like most conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers don't actually know what vaccines are or how they work.
This being especially ironic given that you claimed the covid vaccines weren't vaccines.

You also ignore the fact that vaccination isn't just about preventing the individual from catching the virus, it's about limiting the spread of the virus, especially to people more vulnerable.
A vaccinated person is going to spread the virus less than an unvaccinated person regardless of how sick the virus makes them.

anotherfinemess · 12-05-2021 1:40pm

Here are some UK gov statistics on the subject.

https://yellowcard.ukcolumn.org/yellow-card-reports

Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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