Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

punisher5112 · 24-04-2021 11:14PM

Damien360 wrote: »

This would all be fixed with a correct definition of working class. Those who have never worked a day i their lives believe themselves to be working class. Working class are the actual working poor. SF play on the role of working class party. In truth they fight for those who don’t want to work at the detriment of all those that work. When those that actually work finally see through that smokescreen, then SF will be found out.

Yes, exactly this.... My brain hurts actually trying to think rationally about it or trying to understand somewhat at what it's actually about....
Why are they all for those that will never contribute to society or the country, why does someone that never or will never work get everything handed to them and some and also even have them in gubernment throwing out the idea of increasing the payments....

Utterly bizarre what is going on....

Why is everything we do to try and be the best or 1st in Europe and not question the bizarre policies they want to implement....

We are the furthest country from Europe now with a non EU country in between.....

punisher5112 · 24-04-2021 11:19PM

Feadog999 wrote: »

So the number for McEntee's plan has went from 17,000 to "nearly" 20,000. Interesting. Also Migrants Right Council of Ireland (MRCI) and Justice for the Undocumented (JFU) has found that 93% of this cohort are working. Two things wrong with that, their research is likely biased because they are a lobby group. Children are supposed to be 3,000 of the total so how can 93% be working, it has to be lower.

Country is bolloxed.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/legal-recognition-to-be-grantedfor-nearly-20000-undocumented-in-ireland-40347991.html

Absolutely nuts it is.....

I have no time for that argument, the USA couldn't give a flying fluck about us, they are delighted most likely as the Irish are working, not looking to be housed and get this.... They wouldn't be anyway but here we have to do it a few 1000x times to the super max extreme hybrid scale.....

House them, clothes, food, heat, cash in hand, doctor, medical treatment, medication, free schooling, college etc etc etc....

Wtf is wrong with people, the Irish that are illegally there, that's on them, I didn't force them to go that way, they decided that themselves.

Feadog999 · 24-04-2021 11:32PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Absolutely nuts it is.....

I have no time for that argument, the USA couldn't give a flying fluck about us, they are delighted most likely as the Irish are working, not looking to be housed and get this.... They wouldn't be anyway but here we have to do it a few 1000x times to the super max extreme hybrid scale.....

House them, clothes, food, heat, cash in hand, doctor, medical treatment, medication, free schooling, college etc etc etc....

Wtf is wrong with people, the Irish that are illegally there, that's on them, I didn't force them to go that way, they decided that themselves.

Absolutely disgusting carry on. I agree, the Irish arguement in America is so weak. But it's all they have. Most Irish people don't care about the illegal Irish in America.

I love how the language is "undocumented" and not "illegal immigrants". It will do nothing but encourage more illegal immigration. The end figure will likely be higher too due to family reunification.

24-04-2021 11:38PM

Hamachi wrote: »

As for the humanitarian angle, accept several hundred truly needy cases annually and provide them with genuine support to begin a new life. However, be ruthless in rejecting and removing the overwhelming majority of shysters who have subverted our asylum system for the past two decades.

Ahh well, I feel that citizenship should have value. That it shouldn't be handed out easily just because someone claims asylum. I'm perfectly fine with providing residency, the right to employment, etc. but it should be a renewable fixed term, whereby once they're on their feet, then they can go elsewhere if they so choose. Or stay, but the same as any other migrant that chooses to stay here under normal visa rules. ie. contributing to the country through employment.

Citizenship should be there for people who have proven themselves to be a benefit to the nation. Financial certainly, but also have the attitude towards western values, and possibly, Irish culture, that they would protect this country should it be needed. Whether that's protecting the nation from physical or intangible dangers, such as fundamentalism or other nonsense.

Citizenship should be something that people seriously commit to. Not thrown around like candy, just because somebody had to leave their own country. Asylum should never be a permanent status, nor a reason to open every door to foreign nationals. Nor should illegal immigrants be rewarded for breaking our laws, and staying beyond their visa terms (if they ever had visas to begin with).

I'm all for helping others, but let's be pragmatic about it. Leave the emotional extravagant gestures to countries that are more capable economically of doing so. Our politicians are so intent on mortgaging this country, for short feel good gestures... and it's going to come back to bite everyone in the ass.

Kermit.de.frog · 24-04-2021 11:54PM

Making the same mistakes as Sweden and expecting the outcome will be different.

The end result will be ghettos, no go towns and poverty, then you'll have the social unrest.

I wouldn't mind so much if I thought the people who are driving our country in to this would be held responsible for the outcomes. Like Sweden they won't be. They'll be retired on their pensions on the way out as disorder in these areas ramps up.

It's all ahead of us. It's deer in the headlights stuff. We can all see it coming but no one is brave enough to show leadership in politics on it.

EddieN75 · 25-04-2021 12:00AM

[quote="Kermit.de.frog;116991341"
I wouldn't mind so much if I thought the people who are driving our country in to this would be held responsible for the outcomes.[/quote]

I wouldn't rule anything out.

jmreire · 25-04-2021 12:00AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Making the same mistakes as Sweden and expecting the outcome will be different.

The end result will be ghettos, no go towns and poverty, then you'll have the social unrest.

I wouldn't mind so much if I thought the people who are driving our country in to this would be held responsible for the outcomes. Like Sweden they won't be. They'll be retired on their pensions on the way out as disorder in these areas ramps up.

It's all ahead of us. It's deer in the headlights stuff. We can all see it coming but no one is brave enough to show leadership in politics on it.

While vested interests are milking the rich immigration cash cow for all its worth, don't expect any changes anytime soon..:mad:

Kivaro · 25-04-2021 09:45AM

jmreire wrote: »

While vested interests are milking the rich immigration cash cow for all its worth, don't expect any changes anytime soon..:mad:

I'll be honest with you. The only way we can change it soon is with an election shock. Decimating the two civil war political parties in the next election is the only way we can change anything in the near term. If we don't, then FFG will believe that their progressive liberal policies that they are currently enacting is what the people want.

I do understand the hesitancy of those who do not want the left taking charge, but we can be creative with independents and one or two other parties. But whatever happens, we cannot allow the status quo to continue, as future generations in Ireland will curse us for it.

25-04-2021 10:13AM

EddieN75 wrote: »

I wouldn't rule anything out.

I would. Our politicians have managed to insulate themselves quite well from the consequences of their choices. Perfect example is Bertie, who led the disaster for the Banking crash.. nothing happened to him. We even had expensive tribunals showing the ineptitude of the government, but had no power to serve accountability. That's the state of Irish politics... and for the most part, western politics as a whole. Bush Junior and Blair got away scot free for their behavior over Iraq, and even profited from their time in office... no accountability there either.

Nope. We have a system that is designed to protect politicians. They're not going to be held accountable. They might, just might, lose their position, but they'll leave with the benefits of that position..

0ph0rce0 · 25-04-2021 10:28AM

Anyone remember this lad?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/convicted-sex-offender-initially-given-suspended-sentence-jailed-after-coming-to-garda-attention-five-times-since-may-35955213.html

The last sentence of the article.

"She said Ghariani had recently become homeless, and so she had liaised with local authorities who had agreed to provide him with accommodation"

I know not everyone is a criminal or pervert but ffs if we are giving accommodation to the likes of this and we can't house a genuine family in need then there's no hope. It's been going on years.

Foreign. CHECK
34 Previous: CHECK
Sex Offender: CHECK
Only recently homeless? Ahh very good, I have an Irish family here with two kids living on O'Connell street in a tent the past year. But never mind, right this way sir here's your accommodation.

Mike Murdock · 25-04-2021 10:32AM

Feadog999 wrote: »

So the number for McEntee's plan has went from 17,000 to "nearly" 20,000. Interesting. Also Migrants Right Council of Ireland (MRCI) and Justice for the Undocumented (JFU) has found that 93% of this cohort are working. Two things wrong with that, their research is likely biased because they are a lobby group. Children are supposed to be 3,000 of the total so how can 93% be working, it has to be lower.

Country is bolloxed.

Any new Conservative political party needs to go for the jugular and promise to absolutely gut public funding for NGOs.

There are far too many organisations and grifters in the NGO industrial complex here that need to be defunded.

Feadog999 · 25-04-2021 12:03PM

The "93% working" is based on a survey of just 1,000 people. They don't even have data for the full amount. The survey was also self reported so anybody could say anything and it isn't verified.

jmreire · 25-04-2021 12:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I would. Our politicians have managed to insulate themselves quite well from the consequences of their choices. Perfect example is Bertie, who led the disaster for the Banking crash.. nothing happened to him. We even had expensive tribunals showing the ineptitude of the government, but had no power to serve accountability. That's the state of Irish politics... and for the most part, western politics as a whole. Bush Junior and Blair got away scot free for their behavior over Iraq, and even profited from their time in office... no accountability there either.

Nope. We have a system that is designed to protect politicians. They're not going to be held accountable. They might, just might, lose their position, but they'll leave with the benefits of that position..

Thats very true Klaz, but I think that in the immediate aftermath of the banking crash most people did not fully recognise what had happened....if they had, then the marches against the water tax would pale in significance. Instead all the leading FF politician's retired, of course and in the next GE, they were annihilated. But they slowly climbed back again, even if only a shadow of what they once were. So they have not been forgiven, but are well on the way to becoming a small irrelevent party ( unless needed to make up the Nrs in a coalition,) Looking back at it, the banking crash will be seen as the cause of the demise of FF as a major force in Irish Politics.So while the leading lights escaped untouched, the party itself is taking the hit.

KeepItLight · 25-04-2021 12:42PM

Mike Murdock wrote: »

Any new Conservative political party needs to go for the jugular and promise to absolutely gut public funding for NGOs.

There are far too many organisations and grifters in the NGO industrial complex here that need to be defunded.

I would go further and advocate for banning any NGO's that receives foreign funding from operating in this country, even if funded from another EU member state.

They should have zero political influence, let alone influence to subvert the interest of the native populace.

Galwayguy35 · 25-04-2021 12:44PM

Mike Murdock wrote: »

A true conservative party that steers clear of the religious fanaticism of the NP, and focuses on pragmatic policies that help Irish people would get votes.

True.

And replace Barrett as well, he isn't a very likeable little man.

EddieN75 · 25-04-2021 01:13PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

True.

And replace Barrett as well, he isn't a very likeable little man.

There will never be a proper right wing party in Ireland while the like of Barrett is still in public view. He makes it too easy for opposition to point at.

He is too extreme, a racist, an idiot and not qualified to be part of running any government.

ThunbergsAreGo · 25-04-2021 01:25PM

EddieN75 wrote: »

There will never be a proper right wing party in Ireland while the like of Barrett is still in public view. He makes it too easy for opposition to point at.

He is too extreme, a racist, an idiot and not qualified to be part of running any government.

I totally agree with that (he's a joke) , but two of our last two Taoiseachs were teachers. Not sure any of them are qualified for their roles.

Thats not knocking teachers

Galwayguy35 · 25-04-2021 01:36PM

EddieN75 wrote: »

There will never be a proper right wing party in Ireland while the like of Barrett is still in public view. He makes it too easy for opposition to point at.

He is too extreme, a racist, an idiot and not qualified to be part of running any government.

Barrett doesn't even want Polish or other EE people here even though they have settled into the community, work and pay taxes.

They also leave the religion bit out of it.

Ditch him and policies like the above and the NP will attract mainstream voters who lean to the right and who disagree with the the way things are going at the moment.

EddieN75 · 25-04-2021 01:41PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Barrett doesn't even want Polish or other EE people here even though they have settled into the community, work and pay taxes.

They also leave the religion bit out of it.

Ditch him and policies like the above and the NP will attract mainstream voters who lean to the right and who disagree with the the way things are going at the moment.

Any new right wing party should actively try to recruit candidates from the eastern European community.
The eastern Europeans are generally salt of the earth ,hard working, honest people who have helped make Ireland a better place. They are visible in every part of Irish society.
There are large numbers of eastern Europeans living in Ireland and so deserve to have candidates.

Eastern Europeans may be more likely to vote conservative also. They generally seem not to be lacking in common sense.

EddieN75 · 25-04-2021 01:45PM

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I totally agree with that (he's a joke) , but two of our last two Taoiseachs were teachers. Not sure any of them are qualified for their roles.

Thats not knocking teachers

Eamon Ryan, Simon Harris and especially Stephen Donnelly for example are not leaders of men and women. They are not suitable to make decisions for everyone. I don't know if they were teachers or not but they are not what I would consider a leader. They don't draw respect or admiration.

Ireland needs to improve on its quality of leadership.

biko · 25-04-2021 02:00PM

Feadog999 wrote: »

2018 - for an estimated 5,000 international students in Ireland from 2005 to 2010.
2015 - for an estimated 2,000 rejected asylum seekers in direct provision for over five years.
2012 for an estimated 3,000 international students in Ireland before 2005
2009 for an estimated 186 illegal immigrants whose status was no fault of their own (i.e. trafficked)
2005 - for an estimated 18,000 parents of children born in Ireland before 2005.
Plus the (apparently on ice) proposal to provide asylum seekers in DP over two years an amnesty est. 2,000.

If we add those 28K to the current suggested amnesty of 17/20K we arrive at somewhere way over the size of Swords, with no inhabitants but previously illegal immigrants.

Or, if you will - almost 1 in 100 people in Ireland was previously illegal but got amnesty.

ThunbergsAreGo · 25-04-2021 02:19PM

EddieN75 wrote: »

Eamon Ryan, Simon Harris and especially Stephen Donnelly for example are not leaders of men and women. They are not suitable to make decisions for everyone. I don't know if they were teachers or not but they are not what I would consider a leader. They don't draw respect or admiration.

Ireland needs to improve on its quality of leadership.

I 100 percent agree

TomTomTim · 25-04-2021 04:32PM

EddieN75 wrote: »

Eamon Ryan, Simon Harris and especially Stephen Donnelly for example are not leaders of men and women. They are not suitable to make decisions for everyone. I don't know if they were teachers or not but they are not what I would consider a leader. They don't draw respect or admiration.

Ireland needs to improve on its quality of leadership.

This is why people who are sympathetic to Greek/Roman Paganism are against democracy. Their view is that democracy is a subversion of "natural paths", and unnatural paths lead us to a place where we're led by people who simply aren't leaders. While I'm not against democracy, I can't disagree with their conclusion.

Kermit.de.frog · 26-04-2021 12:18AM

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Anyone remember this lad?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/convicted-sex-offender-initially-given-suspended-sentence-jailed-after-coming-to-garda-attention-five-times-since-may-35955213.html

The last sentence of the article.

"She said Ghariani had recently become homeless, and so she had liaised with local authorities who had agreed to provide him with accommodation"

I know not everyone is a criminal or pervert but ffs if we are giving accommodation to the likes of this and we can't house a genuine family in need then there's no hope. It's been going on years.

Foreign. CHECK
34 Previous: CHECK
Sex Offender: CHECK
Only recently homeless? Ahh very good, I have an Irish family here with two kids living on O'Connell street in a tent the past year. But never mind, right this way sir here's your accommodation.

If they won't deport someone like that it tells you all you need to know.

People will have to take to the streets eventually or this will only get worse.

We don't have a fit for purpose system. Worse, we evidently don't have any standards at all.

EddieN75 · 26-04-2021 12:39AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If they won't deport someone like that it tells you all you need to know.

People will have to take to the streets eventually or this will only get worse.

We don't have a fit for purpose system. Worse, we evidently don't have any standards at all.

When he kills someone the judge should be held responsible

The_Kew_Tour · 26-04-2021 12:48AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If they won't deport someone like that it tells you all you need to know.

People will have to take to the streets eventually or this will only get worse.

We don't have a fit for purpose system. Worse, we evidently don't have any standards at all.

This must be the most depressing story I have ever read on here.

Where is the outrage from the media and Women's Rape groups on this? Or maybe they have?

Why the silence in general?

I also don't give a hoot where he is from. To help a person like him just get a nice comfy house now?

Kivaro · 26-04-2021 08:21AM

Read on the Examiner earlier that:
"Troika-style budget controls have been slapped on the biggest government departments such as health, education and social protection as part of a need to cut an estimated €12bn from State spending."

At a Cabinet meeting in recent days, Mr McGrath “laid down a major marker” to his colleagues saying they are going to be getting back to a situation where "spending will be tightly controlled".

So there you have it, we need to slash at least €12 billion in spending.
I am sure that the well paid Asylum and Migrant NGO CEOs will be on the phone to Roderic O' Gorman this morning to make sure that their financially ruinous plan of unlimited homes for asylum seekers need to proceed.

As we start our work week, we need to know that there are many thousands of men currently in Africa, Pakistan, and other far flung places around the planet, who were guaranteed their own free homes within 4 months of arriving on Irish soil, so we will be told by the Children's Minister that we need to hold firm with that plan.

How long will it be before RTE starts to lecture us about protecting the asylum own-door homes plan when the real discussion begins about cuts to our services and the inevitable tax hikes on us all next year?

Your Face · 26-04-2021 08:29AM

EddieN75 wrote: »

Any new right wing party should actively try to recruit candidates from the eastern European community.

I could see this as being a problem with the Irish working class.
The ones who face increasing competition for jobs from outside the Republic.

26-04-2021 08:47AM

Your Face wrote: »

I could see this as being a problem with the Irish working class.
The ones who face increasing competition for jobs from outside the Republic.

I seriously doubt that it would matter. The actual working class in Ireland is far smaller than the middle class... and the Poles (and other EE) are generally well liked by everyone. Irish people can identify with them since they're what we were like before the celtic tiger... and likely we'll be seeing less EE coming here anyway, as their own region booms.

Your Face · 26-04-2021 11:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I seriously doubt that it would matter. The actual working class in Ireland is far smaller than the middle class... and the Poles (and other EE) are generally well liked by everyone. Irish people can identify with them since they're what we were like before the celtic tiger... and likely we'll be seeing less EE coming here anyway, as their own region booms.

Take note working people - even the right-wingers marginalize the Irish working class.

Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

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