Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

lawred2 · 23-04-2021 02:34PM

Pandiculation wrote: »

It’s a condition of participation, we can’t host it but look at this from a public opinion point of view here. If you bring in 11,000 fans during the pandemic while vaccines are still rollout out and there’s another wave, the decision makers are going to be absolutely pilloried.

That’s the political reality of it.

A wave amongst whom?

All the at risk cohorts will be vaccinated by then.

Sam Wheat90 · 23-04-2021 02:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Cities both within Spain, did you actually know this?? :pac:

But sure, the OP pointed this out to you and you then teleported the goalposts to some presumptious waffle about Cork and Dublin.

I know it very well old bean. Hardly my fault if you`re unable to understand the point I was making in that post.

scamalert · 23-04-2021 02:35PM

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd call it a condition of participation. Just like having a stadium up to scratch is a condition of participation.

It's their competition.

We are the only participant who has no plan nor desire to facilitate it.

the only thing this shows is that goverment would rather do nothing, imagine work needed to be put in to make it actually work, this is the issue were left with incompetent goverment who would rather keep us in lvl5 then think the way out of this, its sad and pathetic that 5 months in were supposed to be happy having barely 1/4 population vaccinated, and the humpties in goverment are saying sure we will look at things once were up to 75 or whatever they magical number is, its mind numbing times to have few in control that are disconnected from reality, to keep telling us slow we go.

OwenM · 23-04-2021 02:36PM

niallo27 wrote: »

The Vaccine does not prevent you from getting or spreading the disease, you should really know this by now, its not that hard to follow.

There is overwhelming evidence that the vaccine reduces transmission. Yes you might catch it, but the chances of you noticing that you are infected are miniscule because you won't have any symptoms. It's not that hard to follow.

niallo27 · 23-04-2021 02:38PM

Sam Wheat90 wrote: »

4 games have been moved not 1. I assume you are a Dub boy. If for example games were moved from Dublin to Belfast or Cork I don`t think it would be long until you were moaning about it.

No i am from Clare, has any other country moved games outside their country.

Pandiculation · 23-04-2021 02:38PM

lawred2 wrote: »

A wave amongst whom?

All the at risk cohorts will be vaccinated by then.

Nothing is certain on anything with this and if you’re looking at it from a tiering of risks of what to do first, hosting international sports events probably isn’t up there.

You start at lowest risk and highest economic and social importance. That likely means getting things like domestic sports reopened and normal travel back off the ground again.

If we can see for sure that the risks are low, you start opening wider.

I’m not sure what the logic of attempting to host a major soccer event in the middle of all this is and don’t think for a moment that our EU neighbours aren’t capable of putting the cart before the horse on this. They absolutely are.

niallo27 · 23-04-2021 02:41PM

gozunda wrote: »

Is that you are just catching up on this now?

Yes you're less likley to get seriously ill if you are vaccinated.

So far we are at 17.8% first vaccines administered and 7.33% second dose vaccines administered.

But hey let's ignore that and do our own thing right?

Even the UK and Isreal didn't start to open until they had a significant amount of the total population vaccinated. Yeah but we know better than them. Fek "Tony and his crew" eh?

What are you talking about, my post said nothing about this, but hey "pints".

lawred2 · 23-04-2021 02:41PM

Pandiculation wrote: »

Nothing is certain on anything with this and if you’re looking at it from a tiering of risks of what to do first, hosting international sports events probably isn’t up there.

You start at lowest risk and highest economic and social importance. That likely means getting things like domestic sports reopened and normal travel back off the ground again.

If we can see for sure that the risks are low, you start opening wider.

I’m not sure what the logic of attempting to host a major soccer event in the middle of all this is and don’t think for a moment that our EU neighbours aren’t capable of putting the cart before the horse on this. They absolutely are.

You're engaging in what ifs rather than dealing with the reality of the here and now.

Make decisions based on evidence to hand not some fear of the bogeyman.

Richard Hillman · 23-04-2021 02:42PM

We could have 5000 cases a day again but if they are all under 40odd, it doesn't matter. A few days unwell and that's the end of it.

I don't even understand why people are still going for tests unless its required for work. If you feel unwell, isolate. If you are in rag order ring a doctor. You don't need a text message to tell you if you are in need of help.

niallo27 · 23-04-2021 02:45PM

charlie14 wrote: »

I think Tony and crew are well aware of that. The are also aware of something you and quite a few of the "open up everything now" brigade here are apparently not.
The levels of vaccination requred to open up in stages so that we do not have to yo-yo back in and out of lockdown.
Something we are in a position to judge based on the U.K. and Isreal opening at stages due to their vaccination levels.

I have to laugh at this, do you really think this. We do not want to open everything up, we just want to know why we are one of the most restricted countries in the world. Why is the virus here is more dangerous than anywhere else in the world, its hardly an unreasonable question to ask.

OwenM · 23-04-2021 02:45PM

gozunda wrote: »

Is that you are just catching up on this now?

Yes you're less likley to get seriously ill if you are vaccinated.

So far we are at 17.8% first vaccines administered and 7.33% second dose vaccines administered.

But hey let's ignore that and do our own thing right?

Even the UK and Isreal didn't start to open until they had a significant amount of the total population vaccinated. Yeah but we know better than them. Fek "Tony and his crew" eh?

We haven't randomly vaccinated 17.8%. The most vulnerable are being done first, this justifies, along with the seasonality of the virus a faster opening of society.

Pandiculation · 23-04-2021 02:46PM

lawred2 wrote: »

You're engaging in what ifs rather than dealing with the reality of the here and now.

Make decisions based on evidence to hand not some fear of the bogeyman.

You’re engaging in jumping into unknowns with what is virus, not a chemical agent. It can, has and will continue to adapt.

Economically, you have to look at it from a risk balance point of view. We’re too far on the conservative side domestically and we need to open up more but you don’t need to add a potentially risky event to the middle of that when the vaccines are only just bedding in.

The data isn’t there to support a decision like that yet. It may be in a few months time but it just isn’t now.

You’re taking leaps into the dark, with other people’s health, lives and economic health too for what benefit exactly?

There are huge numbers of things to open domestically first.

Boggles · 23-04-2021 02:49PM

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd call it a condition of participation.

Indeed, a condition of participation that dictated our public health policy during a pandemic for their need for money, do you think they should get to do that?

It's a pretty simple question.

OwenM · 23-04-2021 02:51PM

Pandiculation wrote: »

You’re engaging in jumping into unknowns with what is virus, not a chemical agent. It can, has and will continue to adapt.

That's simply a OMG SCARY VARIANTS argument.

Silentcorner · 23-04-2021 02:54PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

We could have 5000 cases a day again but if they are all under 40odd, it doesn't matter. A few days unwell and that's the end of it.

I don't even understand why people are still going for tests unless its required for work. If you feel unwell, isolate. If you are in rag order ring a doctor. You don't need a text message to tell you if you are in need of help.

If you had 5,000 last Dec/Jan (in the depths of winter) you'd create more hospital bed demand.

If you had 5,000 this month, you'd create less hospital bed demand.

That is before you factor in the vaccinated and community immunity.

But we are behaving like it's all about to go drastically wrong.

More and more people are moving about mingling, getting on with life you can see it every where...meanwhile the bureaucrats seem bewildered....all they while they continue to wreck our economy and create an even bigger looming health crisis.

Pandiculation · 23-04-2021 02:55PM

OwenM wrote: »

That's simply a OMG SCARY VARIANTS argument.

Oh I give up. Bring the bloody vaccine resistant variants in. Sure we’ve made a total balls of the whole thing anyway. We might as well just undermine the vaccine programme while we’re at it. Sure if we don’t we’ll probably “be a laughing stock” - you know the way everyone’s having a good old laugh at Australia and NZ out enjoying themselves without a care in the world.

lawred2 · 23-04-2021 02:58PM

Pandiculation wrote: »

You’re engaging in jumping into unknowns with what is virus, not a chemical agent. It can, has and will continue to adapt.

Economically, you have to look at it from a risk balance point of view. We’re too far on the conservative side domestically and we need to open up more but you don’t need to add a potentially risky event to the middle of that when the vaccines are only just bedding in.

The data isn’t there to support a decision like that yet. It may be in a few months time but it just isn’t now.

You’re taking leaps into the dark, with other people’s health, lives and economic health too for what benefit exactly?

There are huge numbers of things to open domestically first.

So yeah.. a nicely phrased bogeyman variant prophecy. With some emotives to boot.

Pandiculation · 23-04-2021 03:04PM

lawred2 wrote: »

So yeah.. a nicely phrased bogeyman variant prophecy. With some emotives to boot.

Well if that’s how you want or interpret it, that’s up to you.

All I know is I’ve spent months locked in a 5km bubble because of idiotic and cavalier decision making by those in power over the last number of months when it came to jumping to avoid offending travelling sports fans at the start of the pandemic and later when we refused point blank to control the airports, even with basic testing lest it discommode anyone.

There’s an entire domestic economy to open. There’s huge amounts of sporting, cultural and business activity stopped entirely at the moment that needs to reopen first.

There are sensible risks that need to be taken and aren’t being, but there are risks that just don’t add up at present and this is very definitely the later.

niallo27 · 23-04-2021 03:06PM

Pandiculation wrote: »

Oh I give up. Bring the bloody vaccine resistant variants in. Sure we’ve made a total balls of the whole thing anyway. We might as well just undermine the vaccine programme while we’re at it. Sure if we don’t we’ll probably “be a laughing stock” - you know the way everyone’s having a good old laugh at Australia and NZ out enjoying themselves without a care in the world.

What vaccine resistant variants are you talking about or are you talking about something that doesn't exist.

Boggles · 23-04-2021 03:06PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

If you had 5,000 last Dec/Jan (in the depths of winter) you'd create more hospital bed demand.

If you had 5,000 this month, you'd create less hospital bed demand.

That is before you factor in the vaccinated and community immunity.

French People in Intensive Care for COVID 19 at a 2021 High

Flu Season in France is dragging on a bit isn't it?

lawred2 · 23-04-2021 03:09PM

Pandiculation wrote: »

Well if that’s how you want or interpret it, that’s up to you.

All I know is I’ve spent months locked in a 5km bubble because of idiotic and cavalier decision making by those in power over the last number of months when it came to jumping to avoid offending travelling sports fans at the start of the pandemic and later when we refused point blank to control the airports, even with basic testing lest it discommode anyone.

There’s an entire domestic economy to open. There’s huge amounts of sporting, cultural and business activity stopped entirely at the moment that needs to reopen first.

There are sensible risks that need to be taken and aren’t being, but there are risks that just don’t add up at present and this is very definitely the later.

Those matches are to be played in the Summer. This is April.

Stormyteacup · 23-04-2021 03:14PM

gozunda wrote: »

Arthur. You clearly have only read bits of my last comment. Your claim that I somehow believe that "The lockdown was designed to prevent the collapse of healthcare and an enormous scale of death." That smply does not stand up to scrutiny. You may believe that and absolutely nothing else. I don't. The restrictions were put in place to keep the rate of infections low whilst healthcare services can continue to care and treat those who do fall seriously ill. And yes people did die. But with restrictions- thankfully those numbers have been kept relatively low. What has changed? The availability of vaccinations has. That is the game changer.

Btw again I never mentioned the "prospect of healthcare collapsing". You did. And again we are still keeping the infection rate low, so health services can cope as above all whilst now we roll out the largest vaccination programme in the history of the state.

And the fact is - restrictions are being rolled back as vaccination rates increase and with that we have proportionality.

Imagining that somehow we are going to have the government suddenly without reason deciding that they "need the 5km limit back to keep infections low while we roll the vaccine out” is conspiracy theory level stuff. As is the idea that the whole thing is a politics and media driven agenda.

But no nothing wrong for questioning "whether the severity of the restrictions is commensurate with and proportionate to their purpose and the risk they are preventing. "

But to do so - that must be based on facts. And there's only so many times people can point that out with some exasperation.

So just to get this straight -

‘the restrictions were put in place to keep the rate of infections low whilst healthcare services can continue to care and treat those who do fall seriously ill.‘

But that’s completely different to restrictions being put in place to protect the healthcare system from collapsing?

And;

‘Btw again I never mentioned the "prospect of healthcare collapsing". You did’

Is somehow completely different from

‘And again we are still keeping the infection rate low, so health services can cope’

That’s some fancy footwork there.

charlie14 · 23-04-2021 03:24PM

lawred2 wrote: »

You're engaging in what ifs rather than dealing with the reality of the here and now.

Make decisions based on evidence to hand not some fear of the bogeyman.

The reality is that the U.K. and Israel are opening up at stages due to their levels of vaccination. Levels we are not yet at, but are in a situation where we can see if they got it right for each stage or not

There is no other evidence out there when it comes to opening up other than crossing your fingers and hoping for the best.

Ten of Swords · 23-04-2021 03:32PM

SamWheat90 do not post in this thread again

Everyone else, can we get back on topic please?

OwenM · 23-04-2021 03:33PM

Pandiculation wrote: »

Oh I give up. Bring the bloody vaccine resistant variants in. Sure we’ve made a total balls of the whole thing anyway. We might as well just undermine the vaccine programme while we’re at it. Sure if we don’t we’ll probably “be a laughing stock” - you know the way everyone’s having a good old laugh at Australia and NZ out enjoying themselves without a care in the world.

There are none.....

charlie14 · 23-04-2021 03:40PM

niallo27 wrote: »

I have to laugh at this, do you really think this. We do not want to open everything up, we just want to know why we are one of the most restricted countries in the world. Why is the virus here is more dangerous than anywhere else in the world, its hardly an unreasonable question to ask.

Got a laugh from yours as well.
You obviously feel from your posts that it is fine to now go directly to where we can have crowds of 11,000.
Have you anything to back up the wisdom behind that. Any data from anywhere that has attempted the same at the level of vaccination we are at, or is it just a hunch because somebody else is going to chance it?

Didn`t India just recently chance it. How has that worked out for them ?

Corholio · 23-04-2021 03:43PM

It's probably the vagueness of RTE's reporting but Troy (and/or RTE) mention click and collect and non essential retail opening from early May, they also say about a roadmap for hotels and hospitality from late May/early June which seems earlier than initially stated.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0423/1211675-details-of-easing-of-covid-restrictions-next-week-troy/

niallo27 · 23-04-2021 03:44PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Got a laugh from yours as well.
You obviously feel from your posts that it is fine to now go directly to where we can have crowds of 11,000.
Have you anything to back up the wisdom behind that. Any data from anywhere that has attempted the same at the level of vaccination we are at, or is it just a hunch because somebody else is going to chance it?

Didn`t India just recently chance it. How has that worked out for them ?

The matches are on in June. Nobody said now.

_Kaiser_ · 23-04-2021 03:47PM

The stupidity of these "rules" is massive

Was out over lunch looking for a cheap, light jacket for my evening walks so called into Dunnes. They had 2 you could buy, but not the one I wanted less than 12 foot away in the same section (those were blocked off with boxes).

I know it's been covered many times before but it's still absolutely ridiculous.

Silentcorner · 23-04-2021 03:48PM

Boggles wrote: »

French People in Intensive Care for COVID 19 at a 2021 High

Flu Season in France is dragging on a bit isn't it?

Forget about France or Florida or anywhere else.

Do you think that if we had 5,000 cases today, we would need the same amount of hospital capacity as we needed for 5,000 cases back in late Dec/Jan?

Just answer that question please?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings