Annual leave query

Jpscoles · 20-04-2021 2:36pm #1

Hi Guys, see what your opinion is of this, i cant find anything definitive online.

I work for a company that makes us use our annual leave for Christmas holidays when they are closed. An example is say if Christmas lands on Thursday then expect you to take mon-wed out of your holidays, sometimes its 5 days we have to take.

They are closed and shut down in this week running up to Christmas, so you couldn't work even if you wanted to. Is it legal for them to do this? like 8% on average of your annual leave you get contracted is already gone to christmas?:mad:

Collie D · 20-04-2021 2:44pm

Not illegal. Holidays will always be at the employer's discretion. Once they give you your quota they're under no obligation to give you the days you want although most places will accommodate and although I wouldn't fancy being told I have to use my holidays at certain dates myself they're not doing anything legally wrong.

If they're closed that week the alternative is probably not to pay you at all.

Dial Hard · 20-04-2021 3:10pm

Extremely commonplace and perfectly legal. Literally every company I've ever worked for has required annual leave to be kept for the Christmas closure. 5 days seems excessive, though, three is usually the max.

SAMTALK · 20-04-2021 3:48pm

Jpscoles wrote: »

Hi Guys, see what your opinion is of this, i cant find anything definitive online.

I work for a company that makes us use our annual leave for Christmas holidays when they are closed. An example is say if Christmas lands on Thursday then expect you to take mon-wed out of your holidays, sometimes its 5 days we have to take.

They are closed and shut down in this week running up to Christmas, so you couldn't work even if you wanted to. Is it legal for them to do this? like 8% on average of your annual leave you get contracted is already gone to christmas?:mad:

Count yourself lucky. Not alone do we take 5 of our holidays for Christmas but we also have to do the same for summer hols and now talking about taking 2 weeks in summer which is crazy

[Deleted User] · 20-04-2021 3:50pm

Very common around Christmas and in many of the trades youd be taking your fortnight in summer in the same way

Jim2007 · 21-04-2021 7:25am

Jpscoles wrote: »

They are closed and shut down in this week running up to Christmas, so you couldn't work even if you wanted to. Is it legal for them to do this? like 8% on average of your annual leave you get contracted is already gone to christmas?:mad:

Perfectly normal and legal. And if you work for any kind of manufacturing operation, it is not unusual to be told when you get to take much of the rest of your holidays as well. They'll shut down the factory for a certain 2 or 3 weeks in the summer and everyone goes on holidays.

Any long haul driver will tell you that the worst four weeks on the roads in Europe are the last two weeks of July and the first two weeks in August. That is when most firms in Europe close down. The Alpine passes were usually jammed with Southerns wanting to escape the head going north and Northerners trying to find the sun by going south.

FrankieB29 · 22-04-2021 12:15am

Jpscoles wrote: »

Hi Guys, see what your opinion is of this, i cant find anything definitive online.

I work for a company that makes us use our annual leave for Christmas holidays when they are closed. An example is say if Christmas lands on Thursday then expect you to take mon-wed out of your holidays, sometimes its 5 days we have to take.

They are closed and shut down in this week running up to Christmas, so you couldn't work even if you wanted to. Is it legal for them to do this? like 8% on average of your annual leave you get contracted is already gone to christmas?:mad:

You could always leave and go to another company. I would hate that hoildays should be when you want & need them , I usually take extra week or two off during the year unpaid and go away on holidays. If you are able to do that financially I would do that. Family life memories come first then work

Tpcl20 · 22-04-2021 12:35am

We have been told recently in work that we can't take more than two days of AL in any week and we have to have somebody on our team cover for us, and there are only four on the team.

So even though there will be literally nothing happening in the organisation over Christmas (every other industry which could possibly need us will have all staff off), we will be operating on an every second day basis where we also cover our colleagues.

We get bank holidays off but Christmas eve isn't a public holiday. So two staff will have to be working during that day. Also we're not given bank holidays off, so the other two will have to work Stephen's Day.

Now all it really means is that we'll have to be near the laptop to log on and have our phones on loud, because if I have any work to do on that day I'm not doing my job properly. But it's still shyte.

FrankieB29 · 22-04-2021 8:01am

Tpcl20 wrote: »

We have been told recently in work that we can't take more than two days of AL in any week and we have to have somebody on our team cover for us, and there are only four on the team.

So even though there will be literally nothing happening in the organisation over Christmas (every other industry which could possibly need us will have all staff off), we will be operating on an every second day basis where we also cover our colleagues.

We get bank holidays off but Christmas eve isn't a public holiday. So two staff will have to be working during that day. Also we're not given bank holidays off, so the other two will have to work Stephen's Day.

Now all it really means is that we'll have to be near the laptop to log on and have our phones on loud, because if I have any work to do on that day I'm not doing my job properly. But it's still shyte.

What line of work are you in ?

Bass Reeves · 22-04-2021 8:20am

In the construction area workers usually have to take up to two weeks at Christmas depending on what way it falls. They will generally be off 1-2 before Christmas until the 2nd of January. That is 5-7 days annual leave. As well the first two weeks in August are generally known as the builders holidays. It includes the B/H Monday so that 9days. If St Patrick day falls on a Tuesday or Thursday a lot of sites will close the Monday or Friday. At Easter good Friday is not a BH and again a lot of sites will close.

A lot of construction employers will add 2-3 days to the minimum AL entitlements but is only leaves 5-6 flexible days.

When I was working you had to keep three days for Christmas and legally an employer has to give you/make you take two weeks holidays in one tranche every years.

Any employer will generally have situations where not all employees in a certain area can be off at the one time.

However it's tough if you are on the minimum AL entitlements and 6-7 days go at Christmas's and 9-10 at some stage of the summer

FrankieB29 · 22-04-2021 9:50am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In the construction area workers usually have to take up to two weeks at Christmas depending on what way it falls. They will generally be off 1-2 before Christmas until the 2nd of January. That is 5-7 days annual leave. As well the first two weeks in August are generally known as the builders holidays. It includes the B/H Monday so that 9days. If St Patrick day falls on a Tuesday or Thursday a lot of sites will close the Monday or Friday. At Easter good Friday is not a BH and again a lot of sites will close.

A lot of construction employers will add 2-3 days to the minimum AL entitlements but is only leaves 5-6 flexible days.

When I was working you had to keep three days for Christmas and legally an employer has to give you/make you take two weeks holidays in one tranche every years.

Any employer will generally have situations where not all employees in a certain area can be off at the one time.

However it's tough if you are on the minimum AL entitlements and 6-7 days go at Christmas's and 9-10 at some stage of the summer

Public holidays are not counted into your holidays they are extra days , if you wanted extra week ot two hoilday and had no hoilday days left to take. You can take unpaid leave. Employer cant do much about it

Shiny · 22-04-2021 10:01am

Jim2007 wrote: »

Perfectly normal and legal. And if you work for any kind of manufacturing operation, it is not unusual to be told when you get to take much of the rest of your holidays as well. They'll shut down the factory for a certain 2 or 3 weeks in the summer and everyone goes on holidays.

Any long haul driver will tell you that the worst four weeks on the roads in Europe are the last two weeks of July and the first two weeks in August. That is when most firms in Europe close down. The Alpine passes were usually jammed with Southerns wanting to escape the head going north and Northerners trying to find the sun by going south.

Have seen this in manufacturing also. Generally there are two 7-10 day "shutdowns" per year where 90% of the staff take their holidays. It's logical when you have dozens of production lines.

Also have seen it Europe, I generally avoid getting parts manufactured in Europe in August as that is their shutdown period.

Most people are happy enough with it as it's predictable and they can book their holidays in advance.

nibtrix · 22-04-2021 10:11am

FrankieB29 wrote: »

if you wanted extra week ot two hoilday and had no hoilday days left to take. You can take unpaid leave. Employer cant do much about it

Of course they can, they can deny your request for unpaid leave!

Jim2007 · 22-04-2021 10:17am

FrankieB29 wrote: »

Public holidays are not counted into your holidays they are extra days , if you wanted extra week ot two hoilday and had no hoilday days left to take. You can take unpaid leave. Employer cant do much about it

I think you’ll find they can!

FrankieB29 · 22-04-2021 10:18am

nibtrix wrote: »

Of course they can, they can deny your request for unpaid leave!

Sorry should of said with a doctor's letter

nibtrix · 22-04-2021 10:28am

FrankieB29 wrote: »

Sorry should of said with a doctor's letter

Leaving aside whether your employer pays sick leave or not, getting a doctor's cert because you fancy a few extra weeks off is fraud, and if your employer found out I would expect you could be terminated for it.

Too much sick leave, even if certified, can also be grounds for dismissal.

Bass Reeves · 22-04-2021 10:43am

nibtrix wrote: »

Leaving aside whether your employer pays sick leave or not, getting a doctor's cert because you fancy a few extra weeks off is fraud, and if your employer found out I would expect you could be terminated for it.

Too much sick leave, even if certified, can also be grounds for dismissal.

As well a lot of companies have rules regarding sick leave. A good few have a rules that you cannot leave the country while on sick leave unless you request permission. It's a straight dismissal in a lot of cases.

Bass Reeves · 22-04-2021 10:45am

FrankieB29 wrote: »

Public holidays are not counted into your holidays they are extra days , if you wanted extra week ot two hoilday and had no hoilday days left to take. You can take unpaid leave. Employer cant do much about it

I did not say public holidays were add into your holiday entitlement. If you have to take two weeks off at Christmas you will need 7days A/L along with your three public holidays. Good Friday is not a public Holiday.

Jim2007 · 22-04-2021 10:45am

FrankieB29 wrote: »

Sorry should of said with a doctor's letter

So you are expecting a doctor to lie for you? Ignore the fact that none of your insurances are valid while off sick etc.... and don’t forget fraud.....

This is not a realistic proposal and should not be taken seriously!

jimmycrackcorm · 22-04-2021 11:32am

FrankieB29 wrote:

Sorry should of said with a doctor's letter

Employers question sick leave that is taken just before or after leave as it looks dubious.

However, it's also generally not well known that if you are ill during your holiday leave that you can get those holiday days back, provided you go through the normal process for calling in sick.

mrslancaster · 22-04-2021 11:58am

Tpcl20 wrote: »

We have been told recently in work that we can't take more than two days of AL in any week and we have to have somebody on our team cover for us, and there are only four on the team.

So even though there will be literally nothing happening in the organisation over Christmas (every other industry which could possibly need us will have all staff off), we will be operating on an every second day basis where we also cover our colleagues.

We get bank holidays off but Christmas eve isn't a public holiday. So two staff will have to be working during that day. Also we're not given bank holidays off, so the other two will have to work Stephen's Day.

Now all it really means is that we'll have to be near the laptop to log on and have our phones on loud, because if I have any work to do on that day I'm not doing my job properly. But it's still shyte.

Employees are legally entitled to two weeks unbroken leave after working for 8 months. Are they telling you that you can only take two days in any week for the whole year?

Company doesn't have to give you the actual bank holiday off, they can give another day within a month, an extra days annual leave or pay you instead.

Edit: if an employee leaves a job just before a bank holiday they are entitled to be paid for it. Heard of many people who weren't aware of this.

FrankieB29 · 22-04-2021 1:03pm

nibtrix wrote: »

Leaving aside whether your employer pays sick leave or not, getting a doctor's cert because you fancy a few extra weeks off is fraud, and if your employer found out I would expect you could be terminated for it.

Too much sick leave, even if certified, can also be grounds for dismissal.

Never heard of anyone getting let go for health reasons my neighbour has been doing it years is always off and goes away on hoildays they work in a hospital and not as a doctor or nurse.

Especially if you work in a big company where you dont even speak to the owner just go through HR no questions ask your just a number to them so doesnt hurt anyone not like your getting paid while taking unpaid leave.

Jim2007 · 22-04-2021 1:34pm

FrankieB29 wrote: »

Never heard of anyone getting let go for health reasons my neighbour has been doing it years is always off and goes away on hoildays they work in a hospital and not as a doctor or nurse.

Especially if you work in a big company where you dont even speak to the owner just go through HR no questions ask your just a number to them so doesnt hurt anyone not like your getting paid while taking unpaid leave.

Just trolling or immature can't decide.

nibtrix · 22-04-2021 2:08pm

FrankieB29 wrote: »

Never heard of anyone getting let go for health reasons my neighbour has been doing it years is always off and goes away on hoildays they work in a hospital and not as a doctor or nurse.

Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It's not easy, but certified sick leave does not protect you from dismissal - https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/dismissal/fair_grounds_for_dismissal.html

messrs · 22-04-2021 9:35pm

FrankieB29 wrote: »

Never heard of anyone getting let go for health reasons my neighbour has been doing it years is always off and goes away on hoildays they work in a hospital and not as a doctor or nurse.

Especially if you work in a big company where you dont even speak to the owner just go through HR no questions ask your just a number to them so doesnt hurt anyone not like your getting paid while taking unpaid leave.

Except the people on your team with who have to cover your work while you are off again

Annual leave query

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