Cyclists, insurance and road tax

funnydoggy · 21-04-2021 04:11PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

How many appear considerate but seething internally?

Last Saturday, a group of cyclists were out three abreast and wouldn't give me room to pass. If they had been cycling single file, I could have passed them safely but they refused to budge.

When I say "Lycra libertarians", this is what I'm complaining about.

And despite this, I'm proposing paying higher taxes (carbon taxes) to fund cycling infrastructure (among other things).

You encountered road users? Shocking!

Sono Topolino · 21-04-2021 04:14PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

where? a google maps link would be good.

53°24'48.1"N 9°19'49.9"W

Sadly very common behaviour near Shannapheasteen.

doiredoire · 21-04-2021 04:15PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Third option is an annual tax for all road users based on wear and tear, which in turn is based on vehicle weight. Sounds good?

Any fair system either based on wear and tear of the roads or a carbon tax on fuel and the manufacture of the vehicles/bikes or a combination of both would mean a negligible tax on cyclists as they cause practically no wear and tear and produce hardly any carbon. Its would be so low as to render it not worth collecting.

Add in the savings cyclists make to our health service for being healthier both in physical and mental heatlh.

The anti bike brigade will never agree to pay the real cost of motoring as they know it will be much more expensive. Any argument to the contrary is simple dishonest and not rational.

There are no serious arguments for not trying to reduce private car use, increase walking, cycling and public transport. The government, planners and councils know this but are afraid of the reaction of car owners.

AndrewJRenko · 21-04-2021 04:15PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

How many appear considerate but seething internally?

Last Saturday, a group of cyclists were out three abreast and wouldn't give me room to pass. If they had been cycling single file, I could have passed them safely but they refused to budge.

When I say "Lycra libertarians", this is what I'm complaining about.

And despite this, I'm proposing paying higher taxes (carbon taxes) to fund cycling infrastructure (among other things).

Any competent driver would have worked out that single file means a much longer obstruction, which makes it even more difficult to ensure that you have adequate time and space to pass safely.

They did you a favour by bunching up. You're welcome.

Take a driving lesson from Anne Doyle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJiixtKuVq8i

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJiixtKuVq8i

PauloMN · 21-04-2021 04:17PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

How many appear considerate but seething internally?

Last Saturday, a group of cyclists were out three abreast and wouldn't give me room to pass. If they had been cycling single file, I could have passed them safely but they refused to budge.

When I say "Lycra libertarians", this is what I'm complaining about.

And despite this, I'm proposing paying higher taxes (carbon taxes) to fund cycling infrastructure (among other things).

Well neither I nor you can estimate how many drivers are "seething internally" - but if drivers are being considerate (i.e. safe) when it comes to cyclists on the road, then that's a result. It's the ones who perform dangerous manoeuvres I would take issue with.

Single file - the problem there is many car drivers assume it's safe to pass a single file cyclists when it really isn't. I do most of my cycling alone, I see it sometimes when drivers cannot just wait literally a few seconds for a car coming the other direction to pass before performing their overtake, so they overtake while the car on the other side of the road is passing, hence leaving hardly any wobble room for the cyclist. It's very dangerous, and a lot of motorists do not even realise it.

Cyclists tend to cycle in groups for safety, and to not have one long line of single file bikes that would be harder to overtake (assuming you are overtaking correctly).

Treat a group of cyclists like a car, overtake when safe to do so. It really isn't hard. Just have a bit of patience, you'll get to your destination.

doiredoire · 21-04-2021 04:18PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

53°24'48.1"N 9°19'49.9"W

Sadly very common behaviour near Shannapheasteen.

As someone who is regularly on Shannapheasteen this statement is just not true. It is rare to meet a single cyclist never mind a group of cyclists on the Shan.

Sono Topolino · 21-04-2021 04:20PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Any competent driver would have worked out that single file means a much longer obstruction, which makes it even more difficult to ensure that you have adequate time and space to pass safely.

Take a driving lesson from Anne Doyle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJiixtKuVq8i

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJiixtKuVq8i

But three abreast, potentially obstructing traffic in two directions?

AndrewJRenko · 21-04-2021 04:24PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

But three abreast, potentially obstructing traffic in two directions?

What difference did three abreast make to you? Would you tried to squeeze past them if they were two abreast?

MrStuffins · 21-04-2021 04:27PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

I admit I have not thought this part through........

You're joking! :eek:

Sono Topolino · 21-04-2021 04:31PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What difference did three abreast make to you? Would you tried to squeeze past them if they were two abreast?

No, that would not have been safe.

I wouldn't have judged them to be rude and inconsiderate though.

Pawwed Rig · 21-04-2021 04:35PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

No, that would not have been safe.

I wouldn't have judged them to be rude and inconsiderate though.

I was stuck behind cars 2 abreast this morning.
The inconsiderate aresholes wouldn't let me by.
Bloody motorists slowing me down in my faster car. I lost at least 3 minutes out of my day because of it.

Raging

Sono Topolino · 21-04-2021 04:40PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I was stuck behind cars 2 abreast this morning.
The inconsiderate aresholes wouldn't let me by.
Bloody motorists slowing me down in my faster car. I lost at least 3 minutes out of my day because of it.

Raging

Seems like even cycling Ireland agrees with me that cycling more than two abreast is just plain wrong. So why are you defending these arseholes?
http://www.cyclingireland.ie/downloads/ci%20ride%20leader%20-%20guide%20to%20cycling%20on%20the%20road.pdf

AndrewJRenko · 21-04-2021 04:51PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

No, that would not have been safe.

I wouldn't have judged them to be rude and inconsiderate though.

So two abreast or three abreast - didn't make any difference to you, but somebody was rude for doing something that didn't impact you at all?

Why would you think that your journey was more important than theirs?

VonLuck · 21-04-2021 04:52PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

53°24'48.1"N 9°19'49.9"W

Sadly very common behaviour near Shannapheasteen.

I have my sincere doubts you were driving on that road last Saturday.

doiredoire · 21-04-2021 04:54PM

VonLuck wrote: »

I have my sincere doubts you were driving on that road last Saturday.

It’s also a very quiet road that gets so few cyclists. I think he is making up stuff

Fighting Tao · 21-04-2021 04:54PM

VonLuck wrote: »

Why do you insist on applying a carbon tax to bicycles? They don't emit any emissions. If it's solely based on the carbon produced in their production, by that logic practically all mass produced items should have a carbon tax.

Carbon tax for bikes €5. Carbon tax for a micra €7665. Sounds about right if it is applied for the manufacture process.

Thelonious Monk · 21-04-2021 04:55PM

There's a thread about the horrible uninsured, unlicensed, drunk person who killed two people in his car and then fled the scene. It wont attract anywhere near as much attention as this thread. You wont see one person in there fuming about harder restrictions on motorists, they'll just shrug their shoulders and say god that's terrible.
Being held up by cyclists is far more important than death and destruction on the roads.

Fighting Tao · 21-04-2021 05:01PM

meeeeh wrote: »

When were the taxes fair? They have to be simple, easy and catch the biggest possible amount of people.

They should be fair to everyone. Sure let’s add €1000 onto motor tax to buy people cars if they can’t afford one. That seems fair. Rather than have them cycle, walk or use public transport, they can get stuck in traffic with you. Sounds equal for all.

Sono Topolino · 21-04-2021 05:02PM

doiredoire wrote: »

It’s also a very quiet road that gets so few cyclists. I think he is making up stuff

Ummmm no it attracts cyclists and even runners from March through until September.

harmless · 21-04-2021 05:04PM

Is it a coincidence that this thread has attracted so much attention now that traffic is really ramping up again.
Are people just frustrated with our poor infrastructure and cyclists are an easy target for that frustration?

Let's be honest, this thread is not really about tax.

AndrewJRenko · 21-04-2021 05:07PM

harmless wrote: »

Is it a coincidence that this thread has attracted so much attention now that traffic is really ramping up again.
Are people just frustrated with our poor infrastructure and cyclists are an easy target for that frustration?

Let's be honest, this thread is not really about tax.

It's not about safety either.

VonLuck · 21-04-2021 05:09PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Ummmm no it attracts cyclists and even runners from March through until September.

Seems like a narrow local road. Sure you must know most of the people in such a rural area. Why don't you have a word with the cyclists next time?

MrStuffins · 21-04-2021 05:10PM

harmless wrote: »

Let's be honest, this thread is not really about tax.

These threads are never about tax.

Whenever these threads pop up, it takes exactly 3 seconds for someone to start with the "117% of all cyclists run red lights" rubbish, which has absolutely zero to do with tax.

Tombo2001 · 21-04-2021 05:14PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

There's a thread about the horrible uninsured, unlicensed, drunk person who killed two people in his car and then fled the scene. It wont attract anywhere near as much attention as this thread. You wont see one person in there fuming about harder restrictions on motorists, they'll just shrug their shoulders and say god that's terrible.
Being held up by cyclists is far more important than death and destruction on the roads.

Well thats the serious issue with a discussion like this.

It sucks the air out of things that matter.

SeanW · 21-04-2021 05:16PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You wont see one person in there fuming about harder restrictions on motorists

We don't need to. Cyclists do plenty of that. The rest of us do not believe in collective punishment.

SeanW · 21-04-2021 05:18PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's not about safety either.

Neither are continuous demands for extreme laws and iron-fist enforcement against motorists in a country that is literally global best practice for road safety.

PeadarCo · 21-04-2021 05:21PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Ummmm no it attracts cyclists and even runners from March through until September.

And whats the problem? Cyclists and runners/pedestrians are allowed use roads with the exception of motorways.

For a person who has given out about cyclists not following the law, you have a big issue with accepting the reality. The reality being this other road users cyclists,runners etc are allowed to be there. This is a basic part of the law governing road use. A driver gets their licence on the basis that they accept this basic fact. If a driver shows they don't understand that they are not allowed driver a multi tonne lump of metal around.

Seth Brundle · 21-04-2021 05:30PM

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Last Saturday, a group of cyclists were out three abreast and wouldn't give me room to pass. If they had been cycling single file, I could have passed them safely but they refused to budge.

Did you get it on dashcam for us all to see or is this yet another anecdote with no supporting evidence?
Did you contact the gardai about this law breaking?
For the record, I've cycled three abreast on public roads and it was perfectly safe and perfectly legal!

You have such a massive chip on your shoulder Sono that I don't know how you manage to sit upright in your car! Still, at least you've confirmed to us with the above that you are obviously yet another driver with skills that are unfortunately lacking.

Sono Topolino wrote: »

When I say "Lycra libertarians", this is what I'm complaining about.

When I say "Lycra libertarians" I just think that you're even more immature than you had previously led me to think.

Sono Topolino wrote: »

And despite this, I'm proposing paying higher taxes (carbon taxes) to fund cycling infrastructure (among other things).

Maybe you should contact your TD and put this proposal to them. If it is as good an idea as you think then they definitley won't give you short shrift!

BabysCoffee · 21-04-2021 05:30PM

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Fully agree that cyclists should have insurance and pay road tax. I’d go a step further and have them sit a test and undergo NCTs for their bikes too. The vast majority of them display either pure ignorance or total disregard for the rules of the road, putting themselves, pedestrians and drivers at risk. If the same rules applied to them as say motor cyclists it might sharpen their behavior.

Would you make a 12 yr old put their bike through an NCT? :eek:

How would you propose to test a 6 yr old kid on their bike?

Would there be higher insurance for a mother bringing her kids to school in her cargo bike?

This silly post raises so many questions for me.

MrStuffins · 21-04-2021 05:34PM

BabysCoffee wrote: »

Would you make a 12 yr old put their bike through an NCT? :eek:

How would you propose to test a 6 yr old kid on their bike?

Would there be higher insurance for a mother bringing her kids to school in her cargo bike?

This silly post raises so many questions for me.

No need to get annoyed. The fact that they think Road Tax is a thing shows they have no idea what they're talking about!

Cyclists, insurance and road tax

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