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Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

1…7273757778…111

Comments

  • #2222
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,689 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Faugheen wrote: »
    So no President before him has taken a side in any criminal case ever.

    What’s that got to do with my point?

    He was bang out of order here, and had been criticised for it

    You only see 12 people here..

    But there are millions of people listening. And he pretty much told them what verdict is the right one..

    The justice system needs to be free from any persuasion, meddling, interference from people in such powerful positions..

    This is common sense stuff..


  • #2223
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Sandor Clegane wrote: »
    I also feel a bit conflicted over the verdict if I'm honest, I thought murder was a stretch to begin with, but I thought manslaughter was a shoo in, Chauvin was wrong, he was negligent, irresponsible and over the top and it contributed to George's death and he deserved to be punished, but there was also a lot of other things going on with George too thats hard to ignore...

    But If Im honest the media coverage, hysteria and politicization of the whole thing turned this into a lynching.
    To an extent but it is hard to find fault with the guilty verdict on all three charges given his pretty appalling overall behaviour and how he completely ignored existing police regulations. The other stuff is there anyway and will always come to the fore or be exploited with such a high profile case. Solutions will take a long time to put in place.


  • #2224
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,669 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I don't know what I think about this to be honest.

    I admittedly haven't followed the trial, but the hysteria around the whole thing and implied threat of violence from supporters if there wasn't a guilty verdict returned is just wrong.

    The canonisation of Floyd and the downplaying of his criminal past and portrayal of him as a victim of the system is an issue. So too is people here and elsewhere obsessing over the case as though it was happening in their own city, and why the president of the United States got personally involved and (from what I've heard on the news here this morning) rang the family afterwards is bizarre.

    Should the guy have died, nope. Did the cop intend to do it, unlikely. Should he have faced consequences and punishment, absolutely..... But did he get a fair trial and was the verdict proportional... Hmmm

    I believe the cops actions up to about 1min after Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck, was justifiable. Floyd was absolutely no saint, and the cops probably had no idea if he was or not anyway. Floyd was saying he was claustrophobic and couldn't breathe, but that could have been a ploy to keep resisting arrest. He is bigger than average and was resisting, so I can see why they restrained him as they did.

    It's everything that happens after that 1 minute though, that's where Chauvin's actions start to become unjustifiable, dangerous and negligent. As per the numerous police experts who testified, Chauvin's continued kneeling on Floyd was not proper procedure and was unwarranted, and they could have rolled him into another position. After Floyd began to pass out, Chauvin should have checked on his condition (with caution in case it was a ruse and Floyd was faking it). After Floyd did pass out and die, Chauvin stayed kneeling on him for over 3 minutes.

    The prosectors proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin's actions resulted in Floyd's death. Regardless of whether Floyd was a druggie or a Saint, Chauvin's actions resulted in Floyd's death.

    Chauvin didn't intend to kill Floyd, nor was he charged with that. But his actions were intentional, and they resulted in Floyd's death. Most legal commentators I've seen have said the evidence against Chauvin was fairly overwhelming, and while the defence did what they could to introduce enough reasonable doubt, it doesn't change the fact that Chauvin did get a fair trial, and was found guilty of the charges brought against him.


  • #2225
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    The jury’s decision must be respected but here are some reasons why their decision was made under duress.

    So not really respecting the decision, are you?

    I respect the decision, I just don't necessarily think it was the right one. Just like OJ Simpson, people respected the decision, no right wing riots occurred, but deep down everyone knows it was a bit iffy.


  • #2226
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,699 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    As much as Chauvins cheerleaders try to muddy the waters with irrelevant guff the simple fact is you shouldn't kneel on someones neck for 9 minutes. Thats what killed Floyd


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  • #2227
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    walshb wrote: »
    What’s that got to do with my point?

    He was bang out of order here, and had been criticised for it

    You only see 12 people here..

    But there are millions of people listening. And he pretty much told them what verdict is the right one..

    The justice system needs to be free from any persuasion, meddling, interference from people in such powerful positions..

    This is common sense stuff..

    There was no persuasion, meddling or interference. He commented on a trial after the trial ended.

    Why are you causing so much hysteria? A man was found guilty of murder and the US President said it was the right verdict in his mind.

    I am failing to see what the outrage is here. You are more outraged by this than you are with an actual murderer.


  • #2228
    Sandor Clegane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Sandor Clegane


    is_that_so wrote: »
    To an extent but it is hard to find fault with the guilty verdict on all three charges given his pretty appalling overall behaviour and how he completely ignored existing police regulations. The other stuff is there anyway and will always come to the fore or be exploited with such a high profile case. Solutions will take a long time to put in place.

    His blatant disregard for a human beings safety makes it hard to feel much sympathy for him alright.


  • #2229
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,689 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Faugheen wrote: »
    There was no persuasion, meddling or interference. He commented on a trial after the trial ended.

    Why are you causing so much hysteria? A man was found guilty of murder and the US President said it was the right verdict in his mind.

    I am failing to see what the outrage is here. You are more outraged by this than you are with an actual murderer.

    I am not outraged at all..

    I simply said his commenting on the trial was disgraceful..he should not have done it.

    Steady on. Not outrage here at all..


  • #2230
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    It's interesting if the that was a black police officers strangling a white fella, conservatives would be howling from rooftops to string them up or send them to the chair.

    What really worries me is how many more George Floyds is there but no cameras nearby to record the murder in such detail.


    They have this thing called tazers or tear gas which would have incapacitated him in your hypothethical scenario in a nonlethal manner.

    This was murder plain and simple and the jury agree.
    There needs to be a whole lot less strangling full stop. Far better policing must be the ultimate aim but this case alone won't bring that.


  • #2231
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    walshb wrote: »
    I am not outraged at all..

    I simply said his commenting on the trial was disgraceful..he should not have done it.

    Steady on. Not outrage here at all..

    He commented after the trial.

    Tell me again where is the persuasion, meddling and interference when he didn’t say anything until the trial was over? You seemed to ignore that part of my post


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  • #2232
    Fandymo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Bad Boyo wrote: »
    The jury were probably too frightened to find him not guilty.

    Did you see the makeup of the jury?? All BLM supporters, some with huge chips on their shoulders. Fair trial my arse.


  • #2233
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Sandor Clegane wrote: »
    I also feel a bit conflicted over the verdict if I'm honest, I thought murder was a stretch to begin with, but I thought manslaughter was a shoo in, Chauvin was wrong, he was negligent, irresponsible and over the top and it contributed to George's death and he deserved to be punished, but there was also a lot of other things going on with George too thats hard to ignore...

    But If Im honest the media coverage, hysteria and politicization of the whole thing turned this into a lynching.


    This was the only option, if he wasn't found guilty on all counts America would have burned to the ground.


    America is now being held hostage to a violent mob of thugs that didn't give a sh1t about GF.


    They are entering one of their most divided times in history, all baited and stirred up by the media and democrats.


  • #2234
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,223 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Biker79 wrote: »
    Of course this means every criminal will be emboldened when interacting with police, knowing full well they will be reluctant to exercise their authority.

    Opportunist members of the public may chance their arm too.

    US cities may have been spared a BLM insurrection but crime rates will likely go up and the job of police will become even more difficult.

    giphy.gif


  • #2235
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Fandymo wrote: »
    Did you see the makeup of the jury?? All BLM supporters, some with huge chips on their shoulders. Fair trial my arse.
    You don't need any chips to see that a policeman kneeling on another man's neck for nine minutes is wrong, even if you dispute which of the charges most applied. His own police department condemned him.


  • #2236
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fandymo wrote: »
    Did you see the makeup of the jury?? All BLM supporters, some with huge chips on their shoulders. Fair trial my arse.

    I have and you're lying. There's pretty mixed views. At least one juror outright dislikes BLM. The defence are also free to object to members of the jury... Do you expect people to not Google it?

    https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-over-killing-of-george-floyd/2021/04/20/989149400/what-we-know-about-the-jurors-in-the-chauvin-trial


  • #2237
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Fandymo wrote: »
    Did you see the makeup of the jury?? All BLM supporters, some with huge chips on their shoulders. Fair trial my arse.

    Why did the defence approve of the jury then?


  • #2238
    Fandymo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    AMKC wrote: »
    George Floyd done everything he was asked untill they tried to put him in the back of the police car. He had anxiety and was claustrophobic so did not want to go in the back of the car. They should have asked him to go to the station in his own car. Would that have been so hard?
    Justice has been done. Hopefully Derrick Chevin gets a nice long sentence in a dark cell.

    Mother of God. Ask the criminal, who is claiming to have 'eaten too many drugs' and is foaming at the mouth, to get behind the wheel??

    Why was the cop car claustraphobic, yet his own wasn't?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • #2239
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,699 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    is_that_so wrote: »
    You don't need any chips to see that a policeman kneeling on another man's neck for nine minutes is wrong, even if you dispute which of the charges most applied. His own police department condemned him.

    Chavin was given his cuffs in court without being mounted and choked to death.

    Apparently this idea was beyond Chavin and his fans.


  • #2240
    Fandymo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    THE_SHEEP wrote: »
    Crazy decision / ruling , in my opinion .

    Manslaughter at best , no way was it murder 1,2,3,4,5 or whatever .

    Comes across as a bit of a " show trial ".

    If i was a member of the police force in the USA , I would be seriously considering my position after this verdict .

    Should actually have a mass resignation of police officers in the US , wipe the slate clean . Let Joe Biden and co arrange a new police force of their " utopia " .

    A day or two of blue flu and let the elites deal with the fallout.


  • #2241
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Biker79 wrote: »
    Of course this means every criminal will be emboldened when interacting with police, knowing full well they will be reluctant to exercise their authority.

    Opportunist members of the public may chance their arm too.

    US cities may have been spared a BLM insurrection but crime rates will likely go up and the job of police will become even more difficult.


    Add in to the mix the police leaving in droves and who would want to sign up to the police force in the US now ???


    USA is lost, we are witnessing the fall of an empire.


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  • #2242
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    Weren't the "elites" recently egging on the masses to storm the Capitol and kill politicians ? And the result was dead/injured "blue" officers and protesters themselves

    Or have you forgotten so quickly the Treason and Insurrection Trump created and fueled only a few months ago


    No, Trump called for calm and peaceful demonstrations on capitol hill ... I do however remember Maxine Waters inciting violence last summer and just a few days ago before the jury went into deliberations.


    She is a baiter, and because she goes with big tech and media narrative, it's fine , she's a hero in fact.


  • #2243
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    The impression I often get that is that pro conviction posters think that contrarians are only motivated by racism. For example,
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116953929&postcount=2009
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116954373&postcount=2081

    However there are clear cut cases of racist murders where the killer is condemned with broad support. For example there is little controversy about the Ahmaud Marquez Arbery which does show actual racism and intentionality. There are arguments for and against the conviction of Chauvin but the case just isn't clear cut. The George Floyd case is just a case, a datapoint in time. It isnt representative of police behaviour or a 'test of America's conscience'.


  • #2244
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Why would the prosecution offer immunity?

    They successfully prosecuted Chauvin with murder.

    Your post makes no sense.

    What? How could my post not make sense? Both the prosecution and defense wanted him on the stand.


  • #2245
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,770 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Chavin was given his cuffs in court without being mounted and choked to death.

    Apparently this idea was beyond Chavin and his fans.

    Policing in the US is far more dangerous than in Ireland or Europe.

    A lot of ignorance displayed from people who have the luxury about police tactics in a country they evidently know little about.

    One lapse doing your job and you could be killed any moment.

    That's what they deal with every day. That's what they are trained to deal with.

    It far more zero tolerance than here because it has to be.

    When officers go too far they should be dealt with but there is an obvious lack of understanding of just how dangerous their job is.


  • #2246
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    Add in to the mix the police leaving in droves and who would want to sign up to the police force in the US now ???


    USA is lost, we are witnessing the fall of an empire.

    It might not be the worst if those people join to buy the Police if they think kneeling on a man's neck while he's unconscious is fine..


  • #2247
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What? How could my post not make sense? Both the prosecution and defense wanted him on the stand.

    You said he should have been offered immunity, which only the prosecution can offer, but they won the case without doing so - so why should they have offered immunity?


  • #2248
    penny piper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »

    What really worries me is how many more George Floyds is there but no cameras nearby to record the murder in such detail.


    They have this thing called tazer.


    What worries me is how the any police officer will arrest anyone now....

    Taser???? wouldn't have done to have tasered mr.floyd...didn't he have a serious heart condition???? tasers can actually kill someone...ie..can cause sudden cardiac arrest and death.....

    Maybe, the best solution would be for America to sort out it's gun policy...might help....


  • #2249
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    penny piper wrote: »
    What worries me is how the any police officer will arrest anyone now....

    Taser???? wouldn't have done to have tasered mr.floyd...didn't he have a serious heart condition???? tasers can actually kill someone...ie..can cause sudden cardiac arrest and death.....

    Maybe, the best solution would be for America to sort out it's gun policy...might help....

    Could just not kneel on a restrained man's neck for 9 minutes. You're trying to blame absolutely everyone but Chauvin... For a guy who has been pretending to be on the fence for the last few weeks, you don't seem to like the verdict..


  • #2250
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,689 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Faugheen wrote: »
    He commented after the trial.

    Tell me again where is the persuasion, meddling and interference when he didn’t say anything until the trial was over? You seemed to ignore that part of my post

    You completely missed my point..

    It’s not just about the trial being over, or 12 isolated jurors..

    It’s about the millions of people waiting and watching and his words on the trial verdict, which can clearly be interpreted as what verdict he wants..

    Now, what if a not guilty verdict was announced?

    See where I am at? Millions people listening to their President wanting a certain verdict, and that verdict does not happen...

    This is why his word here are very important, and potentially very destabilising and damaging..

    He should be completely impartial here...

    He was not...

    No matter what verdict people want, all people should be in agreement that the U.S. President should at all times remain impartial, to allow law and order and justice be served..

    Cities being destroyed and untold damage in America due to these very emotive tensions, and you have their leader pretty much telling them what verdict is correct..

    If people cannot see the potential damage here from this, god help us.


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  • #2251
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    You said he should have been offered immunity, which only the prosecution can offer, but they won the case without doing so - so why should they have offered immunity?

    You're heavily abusing hindsight. They wanted him to testify and he pleaded the fifth.

    It's absurd that you think my suggestion makes no sense.


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