But who will look after you when you're old?

Faith · 07-04-2021 9:01am #1

It's one we've all heard, but what are your thoughts on it? Is it something that worries you? Have you ever actually thought about your life as a childfree older adult and how that might look? Do you have it all planned out?

pinkypinky · 07-04-2021 9:43am

I've thought about how I don't want it to look - with reference to some family members.

For me, it meant starting a pension really early, buying a property when I could (much harder to do solo) and planning as best I can.

I have said to my (very small) niece, that she'll get the empire once she visits me in the home regularly!

It doesn't worry me though, because even if I was married and had kids, these things would not guarantee being looked after in my old age. Some people die young and their spouse is widowed for a long time.

07-04-2021 11:29am

I think there’s a wider question here than just your offspring or lack thereof.

Families are much smaller than they once were- and if you come from a small family in the first place you’ve even less people to rely on which means the importance of social engagement wide network of friends etc is so important.

While it’s likely those with children may be better set up in their retirement when it comes to any care requirements it’s certainly not a universal truth - immigration, falling out with family, selfishness or lack of caring for others, etc are all things that may impact whether or not your children support you when you’re old.

It’s a question we all should ask ourselves and just because you have children don’t assume they’ll be there for you in your hours or years of need.

That was one of the benefits of large families and local, especially agricultural communities years ago -3 generations of family all living close by to each other- it had it’s benefits this being one of them - were much more urbanites now living further from our original family homes due mainly work and cost circumstances

07-04-2021 11:42am

I'm a very independent person and I don't like to rely on anyone for anything, even now.
When people say this to me I just tell them all the money I have, that I didn't spend on my non existent children, will allow me to pay for any living assistance I will require.
I hate the thoughts of any member of my family having to help me when I'm old.

The_Conductor · 07-04-2021 11:47am

I just don't understand the concept that anyone would expect their children- or anyone else's children (as adults) to look after them in their old age.

I know where I'm going to be living when I'm elderly (helpfully I own it already, I inherited it from my own parents)- and it requires little/no modification to make it user friendly for someone with mobility and/or other issues (kind of helpful seeing as though I'm only in my 40s I already have arthritis, Crohns, Sarcoidosis and a list of other chronic conditions).

I don't understand why anyone would place an obligation on children- or anyone else, to look after them.

I accept there is a fiercely independent streak in me- however, I cannot get my mind around how/why anyone would expect their offspring to look after them in their old age, its just an alien concept to me.

R.D. aka MR.D · 07-04-2021 11:48am

I have had quite a lot of childless relatives and they were almost better taken care of by family at the end!

But i think for us, without the added lifetime costs of kids, we'll be able to afford care for ourselves.

We will also retire outside of Ireland to somewhere there is better weather as we won't have the grandkids to worry about. I think that for me, retirement is something to look forward to as it will finally mean complete freedom as I won't have to work.

We also will likely to leave any money to charity, although I plan on spending every penny I can!

paperflights · 07-04-2021 11:50am

It's not something I plan. Anyway, growing old isn't even guaranteed. Who knows what will happen to any of us on any given day. I certainly think it's a ridiculous argument and I refuse to suffer for years having children I don't want on the premise that they'll look after me when I'm old.

zedhead · 07-04-2021 11:57am

This is always my mums argument when I tell her I don't think i want children, but even if we had children there is no guarantee they will look after you. You could end up with a special needs child who you will have to care for into your old age, and then worry about what will happen to them when you are no longer there. You could have a bad relationship with your children or fall out with them so you do not speak. As mentioned you could tragicly lose your children before you pass. They could emigrate and not be around.

I think having children just to have someone to look after you is a terrible reason to have them.

I will be planning for my old age on the assumption that I will need to look after myself.

dobman88 · 07-04-2021 11:57am

Only once I've been asked that question by a woman I worked with. Her 2 kids are 2 complete little brats, absolutely nothing likeable about them. She used to bring them into work on her days off "for the chats" and the kids would run riot. Boss told her to stop bringing them. I said kids seemed like a lot of work and wasn't for me. So the she asked who will look after me when I'm old. Asked her was that the only reason she had kids and she said yes. I found that quite sad so just laughed and walked away.

JoChervil · 07-04-2021 12:09pm

I never thought it was fair to expect care from kids in an older age. Kids don’t come to the world with this agreement made by them. If I had kids I would love some help or visits but coming from their heart and from their need to do it, not from the obligation. I would hate, if someone thought that they have to do it for me.

And what if my kid would like to live abroad? I would want all the best for them. I wouldn’t like them to feel guilty that they are not around.

My life is my responsibility and no one’s else, so I must take care of arranging it for my older years. I think our partners, who willingly can take such an obligation to be there for an older years could only be a bonus then.

That’s why it is so important to have your circle of friends, your own interests and be on good terms with your siblings.

Neyite · 07-04-2021 1:15pm

dobman88 wrote: »

Only once I've been asked that question by a woman I worked with. Her 2 kids are 2 complete little brats, absolutely nothing likeable about them. She used to bring them into work on her days off "for the chats" and the kids would run riot. Boss told her to stop bringing them. I said kids seemed like a lot of work and wasn't for me. So the she asked who will look after me when I'm old. Asked her was that the only reason she had kids and she said yes. I found that quite sad so just laughed and walked away.

There's still zero guarantee that they would. They aren't obliged to.

There's a lot of variables that could mean that even if you did try to prepare for your dotage by having a few kids, they could all end up living enough away from you to be of no use to you.That's happened in our family. Or their spouses could change the goalposts as well. I know someone who would have moved in with her son like a shot but she's not keen on the wife so it'll never be on the table.

I know a carer who went above and beyond for the person they cared for even moving them into her home to care for in their final days rather than the nursing home which the person dreaded. Cared for the person like it was her own parent. The carer subsequently got a very pleasant and life changing surprise in the will.

07-04-2021 1:38pm

I know 2 older lads, when they went to transfer assets to the kids, were warned against it by their solicitors. Basically once they had the assets there was no reason to look after the lads and in each case they could end up being turfed out of the house. They were advised to leave the transfer to the will.

These were rural lads with land and the family home.

NSAman · 07-04-2021 1:45pm

While I am not childless... I do not want my kids to look after me at all.

If for any reason I am incapable of looking after myself, I would prefer not to be around.

Having looked after a parent for years, it opened my eyes as to the amount of effort it takes. Don’t get me wrong, I loved my dad and was happy and glad to be able to give him back some of what he gave me growing up, in terms of care.

BUT...it got me thinking about my own kids. Do I want them doing the same for me? No!

Be it stroke or anything that leaves me incapacitated, then I do not want to be around...I know it opens the big question.

dobman88 · 07-04-2021 1:58pm

Neyite wrote: »

There's still zero guarantee that they would. They aren't obliged to.

Yeah, I know. That's why I laughed and walked away from her. Mental reason for having kids, whether she meant it 100% or not.

07-04-2021 2:18pm

Have a really decent personal solicitor on hand. I'll need to ignore all the "xieann, you really really messed my life up, I want PAYBACK from you!!!"

Recliner · 07-04-2021 2:26pm

Childless by choice here.
I've been asked by a former female colleague "Who will look after you when you're old?" and "Who will bury you?".

Also told by another female colleague that I was selfish for not having children.
She has fertility issues and her rationale was that anyone who potentially could have children, should have them because so many women didn't have the choice.
I think I just stood there with my mouth open. Like WTAF!!!
Mind you the same person didn't consider my wedding a "real and proper" one as it was a civil ceremony.
So there you go..

07-04-2021 2:40pm

Recliner wrote: »

Mind you the same person didn't consider my wedding a "real and proper" one as it was a civil ceremony.

I've gotten that too

R.D. aka MR.D · 07-04-2021 2:44pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've gotten that too

Me three!!!

I usually just say, ah well sure i have the piece of paper!

People can be very odd and unwilling to comprehend something outside their immediate sphere of experience.

pinkypinky · 07-04-2021 2:59pm

Recliner wrote: »

Also told by another female colleague that I was selfish for not having children.
She has fertility issues and her rationale was that anyone who potentially could have children, should have them because so many women didn't have the choice.

Reminds me of a time a friend told me I should not exercise my Seanad vote as a protest because not all universities can elect to the Seanad...

Faith · 07-04-2021 9:13pm

This is a complex question for me. Because of the nature of my work, I've worked with older adults dying alone despite having families, I've worked with adults whose lives have been basically ruined by their kids and I've worked with loving parents whose children have died or had severe life-limiting illnesses. So I feel like I've seen first-hand proof of children being no guarantee of support as an adult. I also see a lot of people sandwiched between their children and their elderly parents requiring care, and that just seems like hell to me.

Personally, my only sibling moved to the other side of the world, and for many many years I lived outside of Ireland with no plans to return, so my parents had no guarantee of their kids being around.

I find the idea of growing older is a strong motivator for me to develop a circle of childfree friends, tbh. I love the idea of a Florida-style retirement village with lots of people in a similar boat to me, and I hope that kind of thing becomes more common (I actually have one designed in my head for Ireland but that may never make it out of my head!).

As others have mentioned, I will likely save a lot of money over the years from not having kids and can use that to pay for care, if I need it. I too wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone and I'd be happier to pay for care than for anyone to feel obliged to look after me!

Bodjhrjekekr · 09-04-2021 12:14am

Faith wrote: »

I love the idea of a Florida-style retirement village with lots of people in a similar boat to me, and I hope that kind of thing becomes more common (I actually have one designed in my head for Ireland but that may never make it out of my head!).

that actually sounds like a great idea - life shouldn't be over when you are elderly, would be nice to live with people in the same boat if you are at the stage when you need extra care.

beauf · 09-04-2021 12:51am

Faith wrote: »

....
I find the idea of growing older is a strong motivator for me to develop a circle of childfree friends, tbh. I love the idea of a Florida-style retirement village with lots of people in a similar boat to me, and I hope that kind of thing becomes more common (I actually have one designed in my head for Ireland but that may never make it out of my head!).
...

Good luck finding that in Ireland.

Don't expect friends or family or kids to be around when you get old. Theres a reason loneliness is a big issue for the elderly.

If someone is unselfish with their help, empathetic and caring, they will be like when they are kids and all through their life. People who aren't won't change their spots and you already know they they are fair weather friends (or family) and really only look out for themselves.

Tbh lockdown should have made this more obvious. I think it's always interesting how much of someone's conversation they devote to themselves and what % asking about others.

beauf · 09-04-2021 1:07am

I dunno anyone who thinks their kids will look after them. Kids will do whatever the heck they like.

Tbh if you've settled permanently a long way from your parents you've already made that decision for your own parents. Regardless if you realise you've done it or not. But that's not a judgment. There's no right or wrong. It's just that people choose to live their lives differently.

Sunny Disposition · 09-04-2021 8:41am

Dunno anyone who ever had kids as a retirement policy tbh, would be utter madness to do so. And it’d be crazy to suggest someone have a kid to mind them when they are old.

Jequ0n · 09-04-2021 8:57am

To have a child in order to be looked after in old age is one of the most selfish reasons I can think of and I would probably reply just that.

Faith · 09-04-2021 9:04am

beauf wrote: »

Don't expect friends or family or kids to be around when you get old. Theres a reason loneliness is a big issue for the elderly.

I wonder how much this is a chicken and egg scenario. How much of it is family and friends not being around because they're busy with their own lives/selfish/don't care/moved away etc, and how much of it is as a result of life circumstances such as living in isolated locations and/or not having invested in friendships over the years because their family was more important and there was a presumption the family would automatically be around to provide care and company in later years?

If we all planned for our retirement years and planned that we'd have to be responsible for making sure that we could access care and company, without assuming family would provide that for us, would it change the degree of loneliness experienced in older adulthood? It would likely involve making changes that might be hard, like selling a large family home and moving to a different area or community, for example.

Deeec · 09-04-2021 9:06am

My advice would be to have legal docs drawn up regarding who will look after you if you become incapacitated. Also discuss this with your family so everybody knows what your wishes are.

I have a childless unmarried uncle who developed dementia. I found myself looking after him as nobody else assumed the role even though we are a close family. I looked after him for a while at home which was extremely difficult. When it was clear he was a danger to himself and unable to manage I had to organise for him to go to a nursing home. I am still responsible for organising his fair deal scheme ( which is cumbersome when you are know nothing about the persons financial affairs and they cant tell you), his clothing needs etc. which are paid out of my own pocket. I have a family of my own and this extra role of his care is time consuming. I also dont benefit from his will - the person who inherits his estate ( whatever is left after fair deal) does nothing to help me out. The most important thing is that he is happy in the nursing home but from my point of view it has been tough.

It has been such a messy process from a legal and emotional point of view. It is so important to speak to your solicitor to have plans made should you become unable to speak for yourself. Unfortunately there wont be people queing up to help you out should this happen.

R.D. aka MR.D · 09-04-2021 10:17am

Deeec wrote: »

My advice would be to have legal docs drawn up regarding who will look after you if you become incapacitated. Also discuss this with your family so everybody knows what your wishes are.

I have a childless unmarried uncle who developed dementia. I found myself looking after him as nobody else assumed the role even though we are a close family. I looked after him for a while at home which was extremely difficult. When it was clear he was a danger to himself and unable to manage I had to organise for him to go to a nursing home. I am still responsible for organising his fair deal scheme ( which is cumbersome when you are know nothing about the persons financial affairs and they cant tell you), his clothing needs etc. which are paid out of my own pocket. I have a family of my own and this extra role of his care is time consuming. I also dont benefit from his will - the person who inherits his estate ( whatever is left after fair deal) does nothing to help me out. The most important thing is that he is happy in the nursing home but from my point of view it has been tough.

It has been such a messy process from a legal and emotional point of view. It is so important to speak to your solicitor to have plans made should you become unable to speak for yourself. Unfortunately there wont be people queing up to help you out should this happen.

This happened in my family as well, more than once! Usually female members of the family took on caring for childless relatives and then the estate went to the oldest male relative who didn't do a tap.

Totally agree that thinga should be written down. I saw that with my own grandmother, she had always repeatedly told us she wanted to go to a home as she had cared for more than one elderly relative but when she got dementia, it took her getting hurt while unsupervised (family can't provide 24hr care) to force the issue. She had made it clear many times what she wanted but it was just ignored when the time came. It was coming from a kind place but i certainly would hate to think my wishes would be ignored like that.

beauf · 09-04-2021 10:33am

Faith wrote: »

...and/or not having invested in friendships over the years because their family was more important and there was a presumption the family would automatically be around to provide care and company in later years?
...

Doesn't matter how much time you "invest". It's just human nature. The majority of people just are too wrapped up in themselves.

GreeBo · 09-04-2021 10:36am

If you are having children so that they can look after you then I'd suggest you are having them for the wrong reason.

Deja Boo · 11-04-2021 3:21am

GreeBo wrote: »

If you are having children so that they can look after you then I'd suggest you are having them for the wrong reason.

True enough... but when the time comes, it may be a valid concern.

shesty · 11-04-2021 7:10pm

NSAman wrote: »

While I am not childless... I do not want my kids to look after me at all.

If for any reason I am incapable of looking after myself, I would prefer not to be around.

Having looked after a parent for years, it opened my eyes as to the amount of effort it takes. Don’t get me wrong, I loved my dad and was happy and glad to be able to give him back some of what he gave me growing up, in terms of care.

BUT...it got me thinking about my own kids. Do I want them doing the same for me? No!

Be it stroke or anything that leaves me incapacitated, then I do not want to be around...I know it opens the big question.

I agree with this.It also begs big questions of our society and our health system that it is assumed someone from the family will have to "look after you" when you get old.I would not expect this of my children at all.

magicbastarder · 11-04-2021 7:58pm

if i get dementia, i want my body, naked and covered in mustard, to be dropped onto bertie ahern from several thousand feet. it's a grand way to go.
i know that's an absurd idea though, he's 25 years older than me so by the time i get dementia he will almost certainly have shuffled off this mortal coil.

Galwayguy35 · 11-04-2021 8:06pm

If I know I'm going to have something which will leave me unable to look after myself I'll be making plans to make sure I'm gone before it gets to that point.

Saw it with the old man and don't want to be like that in the end.

kravmaga · 11-04-2021 8:16pm

Faith wrote: »

It's one we've all heard, but what are your thoughts on it? Is it something that worries you? Have you ever actually thought about your life as a childfree older adult and how that might look? Do you have it all planned out?

1. Is there any guarantee that your children will look after you in old age, they may not care or they live abroad, far away or the other partner may be selfish and not want to share or help.

2. What if your children are not healthy and is not fit to look after you in old age or have the means to do so.

3. Is it the purpose of life just to have children just for the sake of it , why would you assume that people with no children have no meaning in life.
Some people will contribute more to society as a solo person without children then vrs some people who have 5 or 6 children who cant even bring them up properly.

4. Your children may pass away before you or they may have a disability.

Finally there is no black and white in life when it comes to children or lack there -of, we should not be judged for the choices or how we choose to live our own life.
Im not childless by choice, it just never happened, but im not upset about it, Ive a great life, great partner and we are a great team, we are mortgage free , own a few properties outright, have 2 cars and are financially secure , Im in my early 50s.

Just my 2 cents worth OP, thanks

magicbastarder · 11-04-2021 8:23pm

my grand aunt, when she was 91, slipped some discs in her back (she'd been walking 8 miles a day till that point), but when her kids mentioned the idea of putting her in permanent care, she burst out crying, so they swore to her they'd look after her. she lived nearly another 14 years; and for about five years of that, the nearest of her children was living in the south of spain. three of them took turns to fly to london where she lived for six weeks at a time to look after her. they basically had to put their lives on hold - while in their 70s - to look after their mother.

i know that's an outlier, but it's also an example of when things can go awry in that situation, they really can go awry.

beauf · 15-04-2021 8:23pm

kravmaga wrote: »

..Is there any guarantee that your children will look after you in old age, .....

I think bogus argument that the majority people have any expectation like this of their children.

A small minority might in certain cultures and poorer countries. But the majority of people in Ireland will not.

Tzardine · 20-04-2021 9:28am

I have been asked this question a few times.

Although I imagine that I will be financially independent to pay for my own private care, my response is usually that I will have the State look after me. The money they have saved by me not claiming childrens allowance, the cost of bringing children to the public healthcare services, paid paternity leave, public schooling etc will more than cover the cost of putting me in a care home should I need one.

Chris_5339762 · 20-04-2021 4:55pm

I'm in my late 30s and very much childfree. However, my parents are 73 and 74 and are the only ones left of their generation. My mum has just been diagnosed with Parkinsons and is likely to require all the care that that involves. My dad is 74 and is in good shape apart from his knees.

If he dropped dead tomorrow I'd be solo caring for my mum from the day after, and likely having to give up my job to do it. I am literally the only one who is available to care for her; nursing homes will come into it but she's not far enough advanced for us to really start discussing that.

It all makes me think of myself, and what I would do childfree in my 70s with a Parkinsons diagnosis, or cancer, or something like that. There will be literally no-one to look after me, as trying to find a girl who is also childfree has never worked - all I've met have been bonkers for children to the point where relationships have broken up because of even the slightest hesitation on my part.

All a bit rambly, but childfree by choice does worry me a touch for when I'm older my self.

bunny_mac · 20-04-2021 6:00pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

All a bit rambly, but childfree by choice does worry me a touch for when I'm older my self.

Same. But I'm praying that assisted dying will be legal by the time I'm that old, or if not I'll do away with myself before it gets to the point that I can't cope on my own anymore. Bit grim, but I'd still rather that than have children! :pac:

20-04-2021 6:31pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

All a bit rambly, but childfree by choice does worry me a touch for when I'm older my self.

You're expecting if you did have children that they should and/or would look after you.
Which is kind of selfish and absolutely not a given anyway.
My father will have no-one to look after him, even though he has plenty of kids!

I'm mid forties, no kids, and when I'm too old to look after myself or too sick, I will have enough money so I can pay someone to look after me, or it will pay for a good nursing/retirement home.
That's my plan.

hustlenbustle · 20-04-2021 7:01pm

Im without children - not by choice but by chance. It's just how it happened. I don't lament it or anything - it's just as it is.

As regards growing older and the question 'who will mind me' this has come to mind occasionally among myself and single childless friends.
Firstly I hope to have my house paid off in the near future! It's always a relief not to have to worry about a roof over my head.

Secondly I'm making a big effort to become stronger / fitter. Many older people go downhill after a fall, so I believe that along with physical exercise you must to some strength training for legs and arms especially.

Thirdly I'm making an effort to increase savings /pension. I'm saving a little more. not so much that would make my life miserable now but enough so that I won't be short when the salary drop comes at pension age.

Next I'm trying to keep up communication with all my friends and family - you need people in a disaster and a good friend or family member will help when youre stuck.

Finally -only now- I'm looking into hobbies that will keep me active in old age, something I must admit I've neglected.

Long and short of it I hope to mind myself in old age by remaining fit and hopefully healthy.

lainey_d_123 · 25-04-2021 10:56pm

No, because there's absolutely no guarantee that a child will be there to look after you when you're old. They might die before you, they might not be capable of it (for example if severely disabled) or they might just be selfish and mean and not want the bother of it. The people who worry about this would be best placed making sure they have a decent pension or their house paid off by 60 than assuming a hypothetical future child will care for them.

notsoyoungwan · 29-04-2021 8:43pm

I work with older people and I see so many whose children have very little input into their care. Anyone who thinks children will look after them when they’re old is naive at best.

In my own family, I have seen siblings of mine run and hide from providing even basic levels of care- I’m not talking emotionally or physically taxing things, rather like practical support on an organised rotating basis, so nothing too frequent,yet they come up with excuses that frankly hold no water.

If I reach old age and need care, I expect to have plenty saved to enable me stay in my own home with paid carers. Failing that, if I need nursing home care, after my funds run out I think I have saved the state enormously and have contributed hugely to state coffers so have no qualms in needing state assistance at that stage.

Chris_5339762 · 29-04-2021 10:23pm

bubblypop wrote: »

You're expecting if you did have children that they should and/or would look after you.
Which is kind of selfish and absolutely not a given anyway.
My father will have no-one to look after him, even though he has plenty of kids!

Fair enough, point taken on that one. I guess I'm coming from the perspective of my own mother will be needing care in the medium term, I'm helping out with bits and pieces at the moment and will help out more in the future. That said, with a full time job and no other siblings it just won't be possible to be a full time carer

Strumms · 30-04-2021 1:31am

If you need a carer, you’ll qualify for a care package.

Carers job is meal preparation, medication prompt, light housework , personal care, companionship..

One of my friends is a carer, she also does shop runs etc...for her more likable clients... ie. will pick up having received a message....essentials like bread, milk, tea, bathroom stuff on her way in once a week, she’ll take maybe 10 minutes off the call which her employer and client will be happy with. Prob be 20 mins parking up and doing the quick shop but she always likes to head early just so not to run the risk of her kindness being taken for granted..give an inch take a mile etc.

Any fûcking around by the client though or complaining she just says ‘nope, been told I can’t do that anymore it’s ‘home’ care’ not shop care, but it only happened the once...

Mollydog123 · 30-04-2021 2:10am

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

I work with older people and I see so many whose children have very little input into their care. Anyone who thinks children will look after them when they’re old is naive at best.

I saw this when my mother was in the nursing home in Dublin. I was her only child and travelled from Sligo to Dublin every week to bring her to mass. Her best friend in the home had seven adult children and had maybe 2-3 visits a year. Childless myself and happy. The one thing I did was make my will at 40 to take care of the people I love. No close relation's so dont want it going to the state.

Addle · 30-04-2021 7:24am

Seeing the way kids are raised now, how do their parents actually think they’ll look after them in their dotage? Unless they just think they’ll pay for their care?

Some parents are setting themselves up for devastating disappointment if they expect their children to look after them. From experience, I know some children don’t even visit, never mind care.

Larbre34 · 30-04-2021 9:51pm

My answer to that is always the same...

"Your kids will."

notsoyoungwan · 30-04-2021 10:26pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

My answer to that is always the same...

"Your kids will."

Love it!

frejaya · 04-05-2021 4:08pm

Faith wrote: »

It's one we've all heard, but what are your thoughts on it? Is it something that worries you? Have you ever actually thought about your life as a childfree older adult and how that might look? Do you have it all planned out?

Ya, it scares me to think of ending up alone and destitute with no children to care whether I’m still alive. But I also 100% think kids should have complete freedom from their parents when they grow up and not feel obligated or tied down, so it wouldn’t matter if I had kids. I will plan ahead and have the proper paperwork in place to make sure everything is taken care of in the event I am no longer able to take care of myself. For the loneliness, making friends early I guess!

But who will look after you when you're old?

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