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Danger of Conspiracy Theories

  • 18-04-2021 12:34pm
    #1
    hawley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭


    This is a really sad article. A lady who lost her partner due to his obsession with conspiracy theories.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/misinformation-5375100-Apr2021/

    I also took on a strategy of acting like I was innocently asking open-ended questions, such as “why did that happen?” or “what interests you about this theory?” But too often I would be left vexed after listening to him for hours, and end up snapping at him with a “but why do you care about x, y or z?”

    My partner’s defence usually came in three forms: freedom of speech for when he was rattling off racist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic and other prejudiced theories; libertarian “whataboutery” based on circumstantial evidence to the point where nothing said could be true or untrue; and projection, when I was deemed the intolerant one.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Most conspiracy theorists are relatively harmless (chemtrails, moon hoax stuff, etc). But then there is the more serious side, e.g. the insurrection in the US fueled by disinformation and false conspiracy theories (Qanon). And outright harmful medical conspiracy theories (promoting false cures, anti-vaccine views, anti-mask, etc)


  • #3
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Most conspiracy theorists are relatively harmless (chemtrails, moon hoax stuff, etc). But then there is the more serious side, e.g. the insurrection in the US fueled by disinformation and false conspiracy theories (Qanon). And outright harmful medical conspiracy theories (promoting false cures, anti-vaccine views, anti-mask, etc)


    Shouldn't you be asking your default question?


    I.E.



    Where's the conspiracy here?


  • #4
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Shouldn't you be asking your default question?


    I.E.



    Where's the conspiracy here?
    No one is proposing a conspiracy in the vague terms we usually see when conspiracy theorist copies and pastes a link with no commentary or context.

    However here is a pretty good article related to conspiracies. Specifically how the can make conspiracy theorists alienate themselves.

    This is something I've seen in real life and outlines what happens pretty good.

    As a conspiracy theorist with some pretty out there beliefs, have you found the same thing occuring to you?


  • #5
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Most conspiracy theorists are relatively harmless (chemtrails, moon hoax stuff, etc). But then there is the more serious side, e.g. the insurrection in the US fueled by disinformation and false conspiracy theories (Qanon). And outright harmful medical conspiracy theories (promoting false cures, anti-vaccine views, anti-mask, etc)

    In my experience, the harmless conspiracy theories are rarely believed in isolation.
    A believer in chemtrails is more likely to buy into medical and anti science claims.
    A believer in 9/11 conspiracies could easily fall into believing that there's a secret deep state government.
    A believe in the moon hoax could easily be convinced that other historical events might not have happened.

    If some one falls down a conspiracy theory rabbit hole it's because of a lack of critical thinking.
    And since conspiracy theorists rarely challenge other conspiracy theories they believe are false, there's little stopping people falling into others.


  • #6
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 32,988 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    There's an interersting section in the Netflix documentary "Behind the Curve" that deals with this., Kind of answers the question "what's the harm in believing that the Earth is flat?" and it's effects on the larger population and education.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • #7
    the immortals
    Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭the immortals


    I read that article and I didn't believe a word of it, especially the bitcoin part


  • #8
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Shouldn't you be asking your default question?


    I.E.



    Where's the conspiracy here?

    No one is suggesting a conspiracy theory, it's a thread about the dangers of conspiracy theories, "Danger of Conspiracy Theories" is the title of the thread.


  • #9
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,420 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Good article in the Times today. Former Tommy Robinson friend and video editor. Not sure if its paywalled.

    Basically, he was manipulated by youtube algorithms, like so many millions of other easily influenced people.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/an-irish-former-alt-right-youtuber-explains-his-methods-1.4539342


  • #10
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Well I'll see the above and raise you:

    https://www.businessinsider.in/international/news/a-leading-conspiracy-theorist-who-thought-covid-19-was-a-hoax-died-from-the-virus-after-hosting-illegal-house-parties/articleshow/82131950.cms


  • #11
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    China and Russia are actively taking a role in spreading conspiracy theories (Qanon)
    https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-foreign-online-1584765

    Weaponised disinformation


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  • #12
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    No one is suggesting a conspiracy theory, it's a thread about the dangers of conspiracy theories, "Danger of Conspiracy Theories" is the title of the thread.


    Yet everytime someone posts on here, your immediate snap-in is "what's the conspiracy?"


    So, to paraphrase YOU.."what's the conspiracy"?

    You were escorted from the door regarding Capitol Riots being used as a pretext for censorship and the reason for that was that you continued to demand what the conspiracy was. It was explained to you and you persisted until a Mod told you to not post again. And that was in "Conspiracy Theories".

    So, again, where's the conspiracy in this subject?


  • #13
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    There's an interersting section in the Netflix documentary "Behind the Curve" that deals with this., Kind of answers the question "what's the harm in believing that the Earth is flat?" and it's effects on the larger population and education.


    What's the harm in believing in anything that's untrue? The harm is that is skews a person's interpretation of what's real and what is unreal. It clouds their judgement but also opens up the possibility of believing further, more outlandish falshoods on the grounds that they are benign.


    There are facts and there are falsehoods. It's that simple. Between the two are perhaps areas where we are unsure because we don't possess the facts OR someone is attempting to promote a falsehood.


    Reindeers cannot fly. That's a fact. Nor can they carry a man all around the world in a couple of hours and for him to climb down a chimney through millions or 100's of millions of households and deposit gifts before embarking on another leg of the trajectory. It's physically impossible yet it is constantly delivered.


    One might say it's a tale to allow children to dream and that's fine. The problem is that when the fairytales become ADULT fairytales like "we're all either going to go to Heaven or Hell" after we die...then there's harm in that.


  • #14
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    ".
    So, again, where's the conspiracy in this subject?
    There isn't one. No one is suggesting there is.

    Any opinion on the article?


  • #15
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058148302&page=3


    Just for your personal edification.


    Are people allowed to discuss matters without you demanding what the conspiracy is (yourself excluded of course)?

    Your words:

    "considering that this is a Conspiracy Theory thread then what is the conspiracy:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058148302&page=3

    Post #46


  • #16
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    What's the harm in believing in anything that's untrue?

    Great question and you answer it in the covid restrictions thread. Something about shooting someone with a Shotgun and using an axe.

    That is the danger. When people get so swallowed up in lies that they start to become a danger.


  • #17
    moonage
    Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭moonage


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Shouldn't you be asking your default question?


    I.E.



    Where's the conspiracy here?

    I'll offer one—the story from this "anonymous" woman was made up to paint anyone who looks into conspiracy theories as nutjobs.

    As the last year has shown, more and more conspiracy theories are turning out to be conspiracy facts.

    The real problem in society is conspiracy denial.


  • #18
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    moonage wrote: »
    I'll offer one—the story from this "anonymous" woman was made up to paint anyone who looks into conspiracy theories as nutjobs.

    As the last year has shown, more and more conspiracy theories are turning out to be conspiracy facts.

    The real problem in society is conspiracy denial.


    Well I thank you for your lucid input.


  • #19
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Yet everytime someone posts on here, your immediate snap-in is "what's the conspiracy?"

    No, that's false. If someone is hinting there is a conspiracy but not detailing it, then I ask.
    So, to paraphrase YOU.."what's the conspiracy"?

    There is none, it's a thread about the dangers of conspiracies theories.


  • #20
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    moonage wrote: »
    I'll offer one—the story from this "anonymous" woman was made up to paint anyone who looks into conspiracy theories as nutjobs.

    As the last year has shown, more and more conspiracy theories are turning out to be conspiracy facts.

    The real problem in society is conspiracy denial.
    But conspiracy theorists always claim that their theories are coming true. This applies to all conspiracy theories including the ones you don't believe.

    Do you believe there are any false conspiracy theories that people genuinely believe?
    Or do you that there are only true conspiracy theories and ones that have been faked by the government to discredit the real ones?


  • #21
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    moonage wrote: »
    I'll offer one—the story from this "anonymous" woman was made up to paint anyone who looks into conspiracy theories as nutjobs.

    People paint themselves with absurd beliefs
    As the last year has shown, more and more conspiracy theories are turning out to be conspiracy facts.

    Go on..


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  • #22
    hawley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭hawley


    moonage wrote: »
    I'll offer one—the story from this "anonymous" woman was made up to paint anyone who looks into conspiracy theories as nutjobs.

    I agree with you. The story of the article is completely unbelievable. You have a left wing feminist dating someone who is making all these comments. He's supposedly attending family events during the last year, even though he sounds like someone who wouldn't wear a mask. There's no sense of any relationship between her and him in the way she speaks of him.

    Most of the article is just a lecture about conspiracy theories. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but this is quite obviously fake. They closed the comments on it, something they don't usually do for this type of story. They publish "Fact Check" pieces, but are happy to spread their own disinformation.


  • #23
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    hawley wrote: »
    I agree with you. The story of the article is completely unbelievable. You have a left wing feminist dating someone who is making all these comments. He's supposedly attending family events during the last year, even though he sounds like someone who wouldn't wear a mask. There's no sense of any relationship between her and him in the way she speaks of him.

    Most of the article is just a lecture about conspiracy theories. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but this is quite obviously fake. They closed the comments on it, something they don't usually do for this type of story. They publish "Fact Check" pieces, but are happy to spread their own disinformation.
    So faked by...?

    You've also seemed to have changed your mind on the article. You originally claimed it was sad in your OP.
    What changed your opinion on the article in the space of a few hours?


  • #24
    McGinniesta
    Registered Users Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭McGinniesta


    The way I see it is that it'd foolish to take anything at face value anymore given the world we live in, both conspiracy theories and mainstream media alike.

    You always have to scratch the surface to see what might be at play.


  • #25
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    McGinniesta wrote: »
    The way I see it is that it'd foolish to take anything at face value anymore given the world we live in, both conspiracy theories and mainstream media alike.

    You always have to scratch the surface to see what might be at play.
    This is kinda just false equivalence though.

    It isn't equally as likely that there's a big giant secret satanist pedophile ring controlling the world as it is that that's just not true.

    Claims about unfounded vaccine dangers aren't as supported as the mountains of evidence for their safety.

    It isn't a 50/50 toss up about whether or not the Earth is flat.

    For most popular conspiracy theories, to even sit on the fence about them, you have to assume things like it's possible that there's a giant global conspiracy and that the vast majority of experts in a field are involved in that conspiracy.
    This is already a massive leap in logic to take just to consider the possibility.

    By the same token, what do you have to assume is possible for the conspiracy theory to be wrong?
    That some anonymous person on the internet is talking out of their arse.
    That's not exactly a stretch of the imagination.

    And in my experience, if you scratch under the surface of any of the popular conspiracy theories here, even a little bit, they tend to fall apart.


  • #26
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    moonage wrote: »
    I'll offer one—the story from this "anonymous" woman was made up to paint anyone who looks into conspiracy theories as nutjobs.

    As the last year has shown, more and more conspiracy theories are turning out to be conspiracy facts.

    The real problem in society is conspiracy denial.

    Funny thing is they had to put bitcoin in it. LOL if that chap interest in bitcoin started few years ago then he is investment genius likely multiplying his holdings several times over.


  • #27
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,452 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    King Mob wrote: »
    This is kinda just false equivalence though.

    It isn't equally as likely that there's a big giant secret satanist pedophile ring controlling the world as it is that that's just not true.

    Claims about unfounded vaccine dangers aren't as supported as the mountains of evidence for their safety.

    It isn't a 50/50 toss up about whether or not the Earth is flat.

    It reminds me of the scene in the terminal when Tom hanks is asked why he queues every day for a visa only to be rejected, he points out that there's only 2 stamps and thus he has a 50% chance of success :)


  • #28
    Markus Antonius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    King Mob wrote: »
    In my experience, the harmless conspiracy theories are rarely believed in isolation.
    A believer in chemtrails is more likely to buy into medical and anti science claims.
    A believer in 9/11 conspiracies could easily fall into believing that there's a secret deep state government.
    A believe in the moon hoax could easily be convinced that other historical events might not have happened.

    If some one falls down a conspiracy theory rabbit hole it's because of a lack of critical thinking.
    And since conspiracy theorists rarely challenge other conspiracy theories they believe are false, there's little stopping people falling into others.

    Ha! I got a good laugh out of this, thanks King Mob.

    Never have I interacted with anyone as anti-science as you are. You are completely oblivious to how critical it is to be allowed question anything and everything in the scientific world, be it science established for thousands or years or cutting-edge new science - it doesn't matter.

    Your mantra in every conspiracy thread you don't agree with (or you feel doesn't meet your scientific standards... :rolleyes:) is to close down and stifle any meaningful debate with sh!tpost after sh!tpost until everyone loses interest and leaves or better again having a mod ban your "opponent".

    And you think you are doing a service to the community? You think you are "addressing misinformation". The irony! People with attitudes like yours are more dangerous than 99% of conspiracy theorists.


  • #29
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Ha! I got a good laugh out of this, thanks King Mob.

    Never have I interacted with anyone as anti-science as you are.
    Again, you believe the entire space program is fake.
    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Your mantra in every conspiracy thread you don't agree with (or you feel doesn't meet your scientific standards... :rolleyes:) is to close down and stifle any meaningful debate with sh!tpost after sh!tpost until everyone loses interest and leaves or better again having a mod ban your "opponent".
    .
    But this isn't true.
    I ask serious questions and address points directly.
    This isn't "stifling" anything.


  • #30
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Ha! I got a good laugh out of this, thanks King Mob.

    Never have I interacted with anyone as anti-science as you are. You are completely oblivious to how critical it is to be allowed question anything and everything in the scientific world, be it science established for thousands or years or cutting-edge new science - it doesn't matter.

    In fairness you do believe the space program is fake, it's difficult to get much more anti-science than that


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  • #31
    shtpEdthePlum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    hawley wrote: »
    This is a really sad article. A lady who lost her partner due to his obsession with conspiracy theories.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/misinformation-5375100-Apr2021/

    They were particularly worried about his love of Bitcoin.

    Looks like her family are a bunch of morons anyway.


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