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Galway Commuter Rail: Galway-Athenry

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Comments

  • #102
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Is it possible that the current station was located there based on a longer term plan of eventually having it as one of many stops on an electrified commuter service? It is half way between the R381, where a new Oranmore station could be added, and Doughiska Road where a Roscam station could be located.

    I think that falls at the first hurdle of there being a 'longer term plan' for any rail infrastructure in Ireland...


  • #103
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,917 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    I think that falls at the first hurdle of there being a 'longer term plan' for any rail infrastructure in Ireland...

    That’s a bit unfair - they’re effectively putting in a dynamic loop at Oranmore, which is better than a standard passing loop as it’s longer and allows trains to pass while on the move.

    Elsewhere on the network, level crossings are currently being eliminated and automated southwest of Limerick Junction on the Dublin-Cork line and the Dublin-Cork line is now about to start being fully relaid (last time was in the late 1970s) to deliver better line speed.


  • #104
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,716 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Well presumably the provision of a passing loop (which incidentally will be longer than just necessary for the station which would presumably account for some of the higher than expected cost) includes another platform with a footbridge and lifts - the notion of the station then being relocated is really fanciful, given the cost of providing lifts.

    Given that the current station is elevated above the car park, and the line is on an embankment, might the access to the second platform be a tunnel instead of a bridge?


  • #105
    Rulmeq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    they’re effectively putting in a dynamic loop at Oranmore, which is better than a standard passing loop


    Do you have any link with the details on that? I'd assume the passing part would stay on the straight, and the stopping one would curve over?


  • #106
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Geuze wrote: »
    Given that the current station is elevated above the car park, and the line is on an embankment, might the access to the second platform be a tunnel instead of a bridge?

    Have a look at Grand Canal Dock - the station is built way above street level, and yet they still have a bridge to get from one platform to the other. Not just that, but they have since built a second one.


  • #107
    Rulmeq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Have a look at Grand Canal Dock
    That station always bugged me the most, because I used to work on Grand Canal Quay, and the only way to get there was to walk all the way around the block, when we were literally within touching distance. It's something I noticed when I was out in Frankfurt, they seem to allow access to stations from all corners (at least on the S-Bhan that I used)


  • #108
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Rulmeq wrote: »
    That station always bugged me the most, because I used to work on Grand Canal Quay, and the only way to get there was to walk all the way around the block, when we were literally within touching distance. It's something I noticed when I was out in Frankfurt, they seem to allow access to stations from all corners (at least on the S-Bhan that I used)

    I think it is time that the Dart copied the Swiss and Italians and put the Revenue Protection efforts into inspectors on trains - certainly off peak. Only have ticket barriers at busy stations, and inspectors on at least 10% of trains, or stations. Make it so the chance of being caught is too high to chance.

    I heard of a case in Switzerland where a guy ran for a train and bought his ticket just as he got on - but the delay on posting the payment meant it had not got through the system when the inspector checked his ticket a few minutes after he got on and he got a heavy fine even though he had paid. No excuse - no ticket then you get a heavy fine.


  • #109
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I think it is time that the Dart copied the Swiss and Italians and put the Revenue Protection efforts into inspectors on trains - certainly off peak. Only have ticket barriers at busy stations, and inspectors on at least 10% of trains, or stations. Make it so the chance of being caught is too high to chance.

    I heard of a case in Switzerland where a guy ran for a train and bought his ticket just as he got on - but the delay on posting the payment meant it had not got through the system when the inspector checked his ticket a few minutes after he got on and he got a heavy fine even though he had paid. No excuse - no ticket then you get a heavy fine.

    That must have been several years ago as buying a ticket for public transport in Switzerland is as easy as opening the SBB app and swiping to start the EasyRide. The app locates where you are and when you get to your destination, slide the other way to turn off EasyRide. It then calculates for you the best fare, and if you use it multiple times in a day, you get the day ticket rate rather than paying for each journey individually.


  • #110
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    That must have been several years ago as buying a ticket for public transport in Switzerland is as easy as opening the SBB app and swiping to start the EasyRide. The app locates where you are and when you get to your destination, slide the other way to turn off EasyRide. It then calculates for you the best fare, and if you use it multiple times in a day, you get the day ticket rate rather than paying for each journey individually.

    Maybe, but if you run for the train and are immediately asked for your ticket before you can even reach for your phone you get wacked with a fine. They are very strict.


  • #111
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    That’s the type of stringent application of the law that the Swiss agree with but would never fly in Ireland.


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  • #112
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    spacetweek wrote: »
    That’s the type of stringent application of the law that the Swiss agree with but would never fly in Ireland.

    I was over there and thought my ticket was valid when it was not - I went much further than the ticket allowed. Fortunately no ticket inspector.

    We need proper revenue protection here - not necessarily as harsh as continental railways do it, but at least check tickets more often.


  • #113
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    It’d need bouncers to back up the checkers considering the responses some members of the public give when asked for tickets.


  • #114
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    spacetweek wrote: »
    It’d need bouncers to back up the checkers considering the responses some members of the public give when asked for tickets.

    They use transport police in the UK. The current RP crowd work in teams - probably for that reason.


  • #115
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Wasn't there talk about introducing transport police here nearly a year ago now? Or was that just political kite flying?


  • #116
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,917 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Wasn't there talk about introducing transport police here nearly a year ago now? Or was that just political kite flying?

    Only by the transport worker unions - nothing has come of it.


  • #117
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Wasn't there talk about introducing transport police here nearly a year ago now? Or was that just political kite flying?

    There are transport police here.

    The Dublin Airport have police, as does Dun Laoghaire Port. I do not know if other airports or ports do, but I imagine some do.


  • #118
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,536 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Dublin Port. But those harbour police forces are tiny, comically so - single digits of officers each.


  • #119
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    L1011 wrote: »
    Dublin Port. But those harbour police forces are tiny, comically so - single digits of officers each.

    They don't exist anymore. Its a private company doing that now.


  • #120
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    IE 222 wrote: »
    They don't exist anymore. Its a private company doing that now.

    So they are just security - no police authority.


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  • #121
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    So they are just security - no police authority.

    Pretty much although I think legally "1 Port Police" officer needs to remain due to the bye-laws.

    They paid them all off handsomely years ago. Can't remember the amount but it was ridiculously high.


  • #122
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,716 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Clearance of vegetation has started alongside the railway track at the station, I presume preparing for the construction of the passing loop.



  • #123
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,716 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Nearly four years after this thread started, and the planning application for a simple 1km of double track still hasn't been submitted.



  • #124
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,716 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Four years after this thread started, here is an update on the planned 1km passing loop:

    I now read that a reason for the delay in making the planning application is land acquisition.

    Hildegarde Naughton metions Sep 2024 for the submission of the planning application.

    Even though in Dec 2020 Senator Sean Kyne stated that IE controlled the land:

    https://seankyne.wordpress.com/2020/12/23/dual-tracking-and-oranmore-passing-loop/

    Four to five years, and the planning application isn't made yet, for just 1km of new track!!!!

    God Help Us.

    How will we ever have all intercity lines double-tracked and electrified?



  • #125
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    General rule of thumb, ignore anything uttered by a Senator.



  • #126
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Looks like Irish rail’s land ownership is often a mess. They have rights of way that they own, but farmers are squatting on it. They have rights of way where for some reason they still need planning permission. I can’t follow it.



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  • #127
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I'm pretty sure they can just apply for a CPO of the lands and after it is granted, sort out who gets paid for the land while they progress with the project. Disputed land ownership shouldn't hold things up, particularly when the lands will just be CPOed anyway if it is determined that IÉ don't already own the lands in question.



  • #128
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Agreed. CPO the land and build the project on it. Let the courts figure out who the payment for the land goes to.



  • #129
    OisinCooke
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭OisinCooke


    They’d almost be better off at this stage to just apply for permission to double the whole line between Galway and Athenry… I know that this is a smaller project and much less likely to be publicly shot down, JR’d or even rejected by ABP, but the way I see it now, the 1km section of doubling and the new Oranmore platform will only be done by the time they realise they need to double the whole line as far as Athenry, so it makes more sense surely to do it as the one project immediately…!

    It would save on costs too, having to appoint just the one manager, only getting crews out for the one project rather than two, etc etc

    Perhaps not viable though, and I totally see the merit to doing these kinds of ‘small wins’ projects little and often, but it’s just struck me that it would probably make more sense and have much greater foresight (especially with the huge capacity upgrades they are doing to Ceannt Station at the moment) to just double the whole section of line from the get-go…



  • #130
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519940#Comment_122519940

    And while they are at it, get the O/H electric wires up as part of the project. It is about 20 Km through basically open countryside.

    That way, a Dart service of Galway to Athenry could be started. A 30 min service would be possible with just a few trains, and perhaps even a 20 min service.



  • #131
    Paddico
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭Paddico


    Id say a good guesstimate is its 10 years away. No joke.



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  • #132
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,716 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531622#Comment_122531622

    The IE plans have 2040 as the target for the double-tracking to Athenry.

    image.png



  • #133
    loco_scolo
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533724#Comment_122533724

    It's more a list of targets for the period 2031 to 2040. Realistically, anything that's not already in planning is unlikely to be finished by 2030, but could be early 2030s.

    Hopefully they will bring forward / prioritise a period of double tracking strategic sections all around Ireland. With additional train sets now coming online, the network will reach capacity in areas without sections of double track.



  • #134
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,716 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534041#Comment_122534041

    When you say extra trains, you are referring to the Alstom framework order? These are all for the GDA?

    Therefore, the only extra trains outside of countries Dublin, Louth and Kildare will be the 29000 class DMU, cascaded from the GDA to regional routes, as the Alstom electric trains arrive?

    So the max extra trains for routes outside of the GDA is 29 sets of 4-cars each.



  • #135
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,536 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534924#Comment_122534924

    There are a significant number of 22000 sets currently operating services that will be operated by DART+ units

    All Hazelhatch commuter

    Some M3 Parkway

    Some Drogheda?

    Very small amount of Maynooth



  • #136
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Actually that's a good question, how many total individual sets that are still inside their operating lifespan will be freed up by Dart+ to cascade across the network?



  • #137
    scrabtom
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭scrabtom


    Plus anything replaced by CACR down in Cork.



  • #138
    Bsharp
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Bsharp


    A fleet cascade plan is very much an ongoing consideration, a moving target though, no depot for Dart+ doesn't help with forward planning.

    Makes sense to electrify Dublin Cork as the the MKIV rolling stock used on the corridor is far along.

    A programme of modest capacity improvements across the intercity network would make a big difference as a next step. Need to get some confirmed funding for the programme, alot of ifs, buts and maybes at the minute



  • #139
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    It's the locomotives on Cork-Dublin that will force electrification, rather than the carriages. The carriages are from 2007 or so, but newest loco is coming up to 30 years old now. Given the typical lead time on any works here, now is the time to plan for replacing these train sets with electric rolling stock. New trains for Enterprise are out for tender at present, and that's very likely to be procured as a hybrid electric/diesel-electric set, as Dublin-border will be electrified during the new trains' operating life.



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