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30km/h planned for main roads in Dublin City Council area (not all main roads)

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    #62
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,640 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    the current average speed to get from the phoenix park to the five lamps on the north circular is not 50km/h, and not even 30km/h.

    it's 13km/h.
    based on google maps current calculations.
    an hour and a half later, it's climbed to a dizzying 19.5km/h.


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    #63
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,640 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    markpb wrote: »
    No one gets to drive at a constant 50kph because traffic lights, traffic queues, congestion, people pulling into and out of parking spaces and getting stuck behind buses at bus stops are actually a thing.
    let's go the other way - if one is to claim that going from 50km/h to 30km/h will have a direct linear effect on journey times, if we *increase* the speed limit to 120km/h, journey times in the city centre will more than halve.
    if we increase it to the speed of sound at sea level, instead of a journey from raheny to kilmainham taking 12 minutes (because one is obviously going to maintain a constant 50km/h for that), that same journey will now take just under 30 seconds.
    i think the howth road is better for maintaining the speed of sound on, than the malahide road, personally.


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    #64
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    an hour and a half later, it's climbed to a dizzying 19.5km/h.

    One of the most congested routes in Dublin. So it's hardly surprising. Almost every junction on it, backs up, and has long signal changes. Even off peak in the middle of the night I avoid it.


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    #65
    tommybrees
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭tommybrees


    beauf wrote: »
    Well it won't because they won't enforce it consistently. So the odd person will be hammered but it will have no effect on speeding overall.

    I wish they would police the bad driving we all see daily. Rather than these Tokenism zones.

    The country will have a massive hangover after covid that needs to be paid. Speeding fines will fit that narrative I think.

    Seriously though with the modern cars we have, modern braking systems. 30km pH is an absolute joke.


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    #66
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    tommybrees wrote: »
    The country will have a massive hangover after covid that needs to be paid. Speeding fines will fit that narrative I think.
    You think we'll use speeding fines to pay our debt?

    We borrowed €3.5 billion today. Our defecit was €18.4 billion last year. Speeding fines bring in just €10 million annually which equates to 0.05% of our deficit and an even smaller % of total government spending. Drop, meet ocean.


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    #67
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,261 ✭✭✭markpb


    tommybrees wrote: »
    Seriously though with the modern cars we have, modern braking systems. 30km pH is an absolute joke.

    Same caliber of human behind the wheel though.


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    #68
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    tommybrees wrote: »
    The country will have a massive hangover after covid that needs to be paid. Speeding fines will fit that narrative I think.
    The thing is, they are avoidable.


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    #69
    tommybrees
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭tommybrees


    Peregrine wrote: »
    You think we'll use speeding fines to pay our debt?

    We borrowed €3.5 billion today. Our defecit was €18.4 billion last year. Speeding fines bring in just €10 million annually which equates to 0.05% of our deficit and an even smaller % of total government spending. Drop, meet ocean.

    Yes I do, we're hardly gonna start taxing multi nationals are we? They bring in 10 million annually now because roads aren't 30kmph.
    Bring in 30kmph speed limits and you'll see this figure grow.


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    #70
    tommybrees
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭tommybrees


    Victor wrote: »
    The thing is, they are avoidable.

    Ah stop sure there's loads of stuff that's avoidable. A person driving will be looking at the speedometer so often they won't be paying attention to what's happening on front of them on the road.


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    #71
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,640 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    why do people have this issue when driving at 30km/h but not at 50km/h?


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    #72
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,431 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    why do people have this issue when driving at 30km/h but not at 50km/h?

    For me driving at 30 is tricky.
    It feels too fast for 2nd gear and too slow for 3rd.
    Its not a 'natural' speed for the gearing.
    Manual car in 3rd gear 40-50 is about what feels right.

    Or maybe thats just my car!

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #73
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    tommybrees wrote: »
    Ah stop sure there's loads of stuff that's avoidable. A person driving will be looking at the speedometer so often they won't be paying attention to what's happening on front of them on the road.

    Set your GPS to beep when you pass 30 / 50 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 km/h.


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    #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    tommybrees wrote: »
    Seriously though with the modern cars we have, modern braking systems. 30km pH is an absolute joke.
    tommybrees wrote: »
    A person driving will be looking at the speedometer so often they won't be paying attention to what's happening on front of them on the road.

    Those modern cars typically have speed limiters and cruise control.

    In addition, if someone is unable to control the speed of their car in normal driving conditions, they shouldn't have a license

    Lastly, its pretty easy to go 50 years without ever getting a ticket for going over the limit......by not going over the limit


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    #75
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    For me driving at 30 is tricky.
    It feels too fast for 2nd gear and too slow for 3rd.
    Its not a 'natural' speed for the gearing.
    Manual car in 3rd gear 40-50 is about what feels right.

    Or maybe thats just my car!

    Staying at 2nd and driving slower than the limit solves that.


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    #76
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    tommybrees wrote: »
    ....
    Seriously though with the modern cars we have, modern braking systems. 30km pH is an absolute joke.

    It's hasn't changed physics for pedestrians even with improvements in bonnets.


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    #77
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,431 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    beauf wrote: »
    It's hasn't changed physics for pedestrians even with improvements in bonnets.

    How many pedestrians died on the roads in question from collisions with cars obeying the speed limits traffic lights etc

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #78
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    ...
    Lastly, its pretty easy to go 50 years without ever getting a ticket for going over the limit......by not going over the limit

    In fairness it's not that easy.... very easy to get caught out.


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    #79
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    How many pedestrians died on the roads in question from collisions with cars obeying the speed limits traffic lights etc

    42


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    #80
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,431 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    beauf wrote: »
    Staying at 2nd and driving slower than the limit solves that.

    Somehow I cant see that working on a non ramped trunk road... progress and all that.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #81
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,431 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    beauf wrote: »
    42

    Where is your source for this... I am not asking re all pedestrian deaths but the specific scenarios of the current roads.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    In fairness it's not that easy.... very easy to get caught out.

    It really is that easy


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    #83
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,640 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    If you are able to maintain a steady 30km/h on the m50 in heavy but moving traffic, you can maintain 30km/h on roads you're far more likely to encounter pedestrians and cyclists.


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    #84
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    For me driving at 30 is tricky.
    It feels too fast for 2nd gear and too slow for 3rd.
    Its not a 'natural' speed for the gearing.
    Manual car in 3rd gear 40-50 is about what feels right.

    Or maybe thats just my car!

    No it's a similar experience with mine as well, it get's frustrating and annoying. 40km is managable in 3rd gear but 30km makes you constantly have to change gears for even the most minor change in speed. Really tired of this bloody council with this 30km ego trip, it's nothing to do with safety when they're trying to apply 30km across the board even on main and large trunk roads as well. The whole safety Schick is just gaslighting plain and simple. This proposal was brought last year and people rejected it. The council is being run on an anti car agenda and there's going to be fecking murder over all this at some point. Not only that but main arteries in and out of town since the pandemic are having more and more lanes removed, there's going to be absolute chaos when traffic returns proper once the pandemic is over as there going to be so little flow there will be traffic jams all over the place.


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    #85
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Infini wrote: »
    The council is being run on an anti car agenda and there's going to be fecking murder over all this at some point.
    1.3 million dead from traffic collisions each year. The pollution kills millions more.


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    #86
    vandriver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,460 ✭✭✭vandriver


    Victor wrote: »
    1.3 million dead from traffic collisions each year. The pollution kills millions more.

    In Dublin...cripes.


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    #87
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,431 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Victor wrote: »
    1.3 million dead from traffic collisions each year. The pollution kills millions more.

    Is there a diff in pollution for cars at 30 v 50?
    Could it mean more if cars on the road for longer.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #88
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Is there a diff in pollution for cars at 30 v 50
    Vehicular pollution largely boils down to:
    1. Energy used in accelerating the vehicle. Mostly combustion and noise related.
    2. Energy used in maintaining the vehicle as speed. Mostly combustion and noise related.
    3. Road and tyre dust from accelerating. Mostly dust related.
    4. Road, tyre and brake dust from braking. Mostly dust related.

    Doing 30 km/h instead of 50 km/h in stop-start traffic should mean less accelerating and braking
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Could it mean more if cars on the road for longer.
    I'm not sure that time on road is a determinant of pollution, as such. Time idling would be an issue, in traffic or at either end of the journey,


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    #89
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,640 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    yep, 50km/h is more fuel efficient than 30km/h if simply measured at constant speed.
    but if you accelerate to 50km/h, and straight away hit a red light and brake, this is less efficient than accelerating to 30km/h, holding it there for a couple of seconds before braking.
    in a crude (but useful) sense, the more you brake, the more inefficient your driving it.


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    #90
    jams100
    Registered Users Posts: 773 ✭✭✭jams100


    Infini wrote: »
    No it's a similar experience with mine as well, it get's frustrating and annoying. 40km is managable in 3rd gear but 30km makes you constantly have to change gears for even the most minor change in speed. Really tired of this bloody council with this 30km ego trip, it's nothing to do with safety when they're trying to apply 30km across the board even on main and large trunk roads as well. The whole safety Schick is just gaslighting plain and simple. This proposal was brought last year and people rejected it. The council is being run on an anti car agenda and there's going to be fecking murder over all this at some point. Not only that but main arteries in and out of town since the pandemic are having more and more lanes removed, there's going to be absolute chaos when traffic returns proper once the pandemic is over as there going to be so little flow there will be traffic jams all over the place.

    I dont have a problem with the 30, but only once it's applied in the right areas (areas where it can be justified, Dame Street, Camden Street, sections of quays, parnell Street, certain areas around Stephen's Green, liberties and housing estates, im sure I'm missing a few Streets but by in large they are the types of areas where there is a fair justification.
    Applying it broadly simply makes a mockery of the entire 30km/h limit as it is atm and it won't be respected. Simple, even gardai when off or on duty wouldnt drive at 30 down Merrion Road at night or along the canal early on a Sunday morning, of course you'll have the hardcore cyclist on here who says that it needs to be enforced but it won't because nobody wants it enforced if its going to apply to every dcc council area.


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    #91
    SeeMoreBut
    Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭SeeMoreBut


    jams100 wrote: »
    I dont have a problem with the 30, but only once it's applied in the right areas (areas where it can be justified, Dame Street, Camden Street, sections of quays, parnell Street, certain areas around Stephen's Green, liberties and housing estates, im sure I'm missing a few Streets but by in large they are the types of areas where there is a fair justification.
    Applying it broadly simply makes a mockery of the entire 30km/h limit as it is atm and it won't be respected. Simple, even gardai when off or on duty wouldnt drive at 30 down Merrion Road at night or along the canal early on a Sunday morning, of course you'll have the hardcore cyclist on here who says that it needs to be enforced but it won't because nobody wants it enforced if its going to apply to every dcc council area.

    Will cyclists be stopped when breaking 30 kph also as that speed is easily achievable for lot a cyclists


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