Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

FintanMcluskey · 15-04-2021 10:01AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Do you not think they’ll be extended? I’d be very surprised if they were allowed expire

They talking about MHQ 2 months after 4 out 5 adults will be vaccinated

This won’t end anytime soon

Seanachai · 15-04-2021 10:03AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, it will always be an option for governments to use. It's unrealistic to expect that lockdowns will be a thing of the past. The seeds are already being sown for an autumn / winter lockdown in the UK with Johnson saying the other day that it was the lockdown, not the vaccine, that was responsible for the fall in case and death numbers.

And then there are the potential climate lockdowns: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2021/03/03/report-world-needs-equivalent-of-pandemic-lockdown-every-two-years-to-meet-paris-carbon-emission-goals/?sh=8aaa7706deed

And according to the World Economic Forum, lockdowns are improving city life: https://spectator.com.au/2021/02/the-world-economic-forum-lockdowns-are-improving-cities-around-the-world/

(They subsequently deleted the tweet after significant criticism.)

I could see a lot of people leaving the cities for the sticks if this materialises, there's much more scope to bend lockdown rules and maintain your sanity away from prying eyes.

FintanMcluskey · 15-04-2021 10:05AM

Graham wrote: »

I would assume at whatever date the SIs expire or the appropriate Minister makes the call.

I can understand why we wouldn't tie the restrictions to an arbitrary number given the rapidly changing nature of a pandemic.

Where have you been living or what are you basing your opinion on?

A monster was born in NPHET, no minister will put their head above the parapet to disagree with NPHET, and NPHET are only concerned with using lockdown as a primary control for Covid.

15-04-2021 10:07AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Do you not think they’ll be extended? I’d be very surprised if they were allowed expire

It's unrealistic to think it won't be extended in May. Income tax was supposed to be temporary, but ended up being permanent, The Emergency Powers (Defence) Act 1939 wasn't repealed until 1959. SI 168 creates a two-tier society.

15-04-2021 10:09AM

Seanachai wrote: »

I could see a lot of people leaving the cities for the sticks if this materialises, there's much more scope to bend lockdown rules and maintain your sanity away from prying eyes.

I understand what you mean, but rural areas will increasingly become less rural with WFH and the rollout of broadband. I've often thought that an island might be an option. Cape Clear, for example, or any island really.

15-04-2021 10:12AM

Graham wrote: »

I see.

I don't think many outside the fringe elements are calling for, or expecting, flu lockdowns and climate lockdowns.

But the World Economic Forum is not a fringe organisation. They tweeted that lockdowns were improving city life. I expect to see calls for climate lockdowns to increase later this year and next year based on this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2021/03/03/report-world-needs-equivalent-of-pandemic-lockdown-every-two-years-to-meet-paris-carbon-emission-goals/?sh=5facd1606dee

Snooker Loopy · 15-04-2021 10:16AM

Seanachai wrote: »

I could see a lot of people leaving the cities for the sticks if this materialises, there's much more scope to bend lockdown rules and maintain your sanity away from prying eyes.

Yeah, I guess most people in cities will just decamp to their holiday homes in West Cork. :rolleyes:

JMNolan · 15-04-2021 10:27AM

Graham wrote: »

I would assume at whatever date the SIs expire or the appropriate Minister makes the call.

I can understand why we wouldn't tie the restrictions to an arbitrary number given the rapidly changing nature of a pandemic.

You assume? So you mean either you don't know the metrics or the metrics aren't available? If it's the latter then do you know why the metrics aren't available?

arccosh · 15-04-2021 10:39AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Do you not think they’ll be extended? I’d be very surprised if they were allowed expire

You don't understand the law so.... those SI's will expire on those dates, you don't amend an SI, you make a new one referring to the previous...

They can create other ones, which have to go through government for approval...

But as mentioned, they are leaving themselves very unprotected from a legal standpoint if they are doing it "just because" as you are suggesting...

the fact it stands is, there is precedence in every other EU country for these measures currently....

The UK are ahead of the curve as they have an advanced vaccine program and invested in the NHS (testing, track and trace, staff and PPE) to mitigate a lockdown.
But, the Brazillian and SA variants haven't become prevalent yet, so the litmus test will be what happens when they do, that's why testing, track and trace and social distancing measures will stay for a period, even after "heard immunity" has been achieved...
The only places there is mass data on the Brazilian and SA variants, is SA and South America, with Portugal as an outlier....
All of which had no vaccine programs in place when the variants became prevalent.... and are using vaccines tailored to a different strain in their rollouts, so it's very much a "watch this space" scenario at the moment.

Plenty of people will just put the blinders on though with "but there's not very many deaths in Ireland, let me go to the pub" hat on, when there is still a very real bigger world wide picture to take in..

Deleted User wrote: »

It's unrealistic to think it won't be extended in May. Income tax was supposed to be temporary, but ended up being permanent, The Emergency Powers (Defence) Act 1939 wasn't repealed until 1959. SI 168 creates a two-tier society.

Tax? as like in every other country in the world except oil or tax havens?

There was something that happened around 1939, I can't for the life of me remember ... some sort of war....

Graham · 15-04-2021 10:40AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

A monster was born in NPHET, no minister will put their head above the parapet to disagree with NPHET, and NPHET are only concerned with using lockdown as a primary control for Covid.

Changes nothing about when I think restrictions will be removed though.

As an FYI, I understand NPHET are also looking at vaccines

I would assume at whatever date the SIs expire or the appropriate Minister makes the call.

Don't let that stop you frightening yourself with stories of permanent lockdowns and perpetual masks because of the NPHET monsters though.

Graham · 15-04-2021 10:44AM

JMNolan wrote: »

You assume? So you mean either you don't know the metrics or the metrics aren't available? If it's the latter then do you know why the metrics aren't available?

As I posted earlier, I expect the metrics change as the situation changes so the metrics become little more than arbitrary numbers.

I expect the 'metrics' will continue to change as vaccinations increase, variants come and go and restrictions ease.

Graham · 15-04-2021 10:48AM

Deleted User wrote: »

But the World Economic Forum is not a fringe organisation. They tweeted that lockdowns were improving city life. I expect to see calls for climate lockdowns to increase later this year and next year based on this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2021/03/03/report-world-needs-equivalent-of-pandemic-lockdown-every-two-years-to-meet-paris-carbon-emission-goals/?sh=5facd1606dee

The WEF aren't the fringe element translating "lockdowns were improving city life" into an assertion that lockdowns are going to be permanent.

Where did you get that assertion?

TomSweeney · 15-04-2021 10:52AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

They talking about MHQ 2 months after 4 out 5 adults will be vaccinated

This won’t end anytime soon

Wait what ?

MHQ when 80% of all adults are fully vaccinated ?

This would include all vulnerable people and we could be fairly certain hospitals won't be busy at all and the death rate would be practically zero with that number of vaccinated.

It's clear that they want this to go on and on.
I know it makes zero sense, but when they are saying stuff like the above, what else can we conclude ?

15-04-2021 10:53AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Where have you been living or what are you basing your opinion on?

A monster was born in NPHET, no minister will put their head above the parapet to disagree with NPHET, and NPHET are only concerned with using lockdown as a primary control for Covid.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0415/1209997-covid-ireland/

FintanMcluskey · 15-04-2021 10:59AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

Wait what ?

MHQ when 80% of all adults are fully vaccinated ?

This would include all vulnerable people and we could be fairly certain hospitals won't be busy at all and the death rate would be practically zero with that number of vaccinated.

It's clear that they want this to go on and on.
I know it makes zero sense, but when they are saying stuff like the above, what else can we conclude ?

Leo said it on Newstalk this morning

On track for vaccination of 4 out of 5 adults in June

He later said he preempted a situation in July and August where people will try to avoid MHQ by flying into NI and he hopes that won’t happen

Grim stuff

Graham · 15-04-2021 11:02AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

They talking about MHQ 2 months after 4 out 5 adults will be vaccinated

MHQ for who, from what countries, with what prevalent variants, with what vaccination status?

Personally I don't have a problem with MHQ being retained for high-risk inbounds.

CalamariFritti · 15-04-2021 11:02AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The economy is ruined.

And the seeds are being sown for continued restrictions and future lockdowns. Johnson yesterday saying that it was the lockdown, not the vaccines, that brought numbers down, Trudeau saying vaccines are not enough (https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1382071376060764160), and Australia talking about the border staying closed even post-vaccination (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/international-borders-might-not-open-even-if-whole-country-is-vaccinated-greg-hunt-20210413-p57ixi.html)

And Donohue talking about restrictions well into next year.

But Graham and others see no sign of any permanency whatsoever. All CT nonsense.

15-04-2021 11:03AM

Graham wrote: »

The WEF aren't the fringe element translating "lockdowns were improving city life" into an assertion that lockdowns are going to be permanent.

Where did you get that assertion?

But if they believe they're improving city life then they must believe they shouldn't be dispensed with. You don't dispense with something that's improving life.

15-04-2021 11:05AM

arccosh wrote: »

You don't understand the law so.... those SI's will expire on those dates, you don't amend an SI, you make a new one referring to the previous...

They can create other ones, which have to go through government for approval...

But as mentioned, they are leaving themselves very unprotected from a legal standpoint if they are doing it "just because" as you are suggesting...

the fact it stands is, there is precedence in every other EU country for these measures currently....

The UK are ahead of the curve as they have an advanced vaccine program and invested in the NHS (testing, track and trace, staff and PPE) to mitigate a lockdown.
But, the Brazillian and SA variants haven't become prevalent yet, so the litmus test will be what happens when they do, that's why testing, track and trace and social distancing measures will stay for a period, even after "heard immunity" has been achieved...
The only places there is mass data on the Brazilian and SA variants, is SA and South America, with Portugal as an outlier....
All of which had no vaccine programs in place when the variants became prevalent.... and are using vaccines tailored to a different strain in their rollouts, so it's very much a "watch this space" scenario at the moment.

Plenty of people will just put the blinders on though with "but there's not very many deaths in Ireland, let me go to the pub" hat on, when there is still a very real bigger world wide picture to take in..

Tax? as like in every other country in the world except oil or tax havens?

There was something that happened around 1939, I can't for the life of me remember ... some sort of war....

It's an example of a measure that was said to be temporary, but ended up being permanent.

Did the Second World War last until 1959, the year the Act was repealed?

FintanMcluskey · 15-04-2021 11:06AM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0415/1209997-covid-ireland/

Thanks for posting this.

Really proves my point

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, he said the Government will consider allowing more outdoor activity and a return to Level 3 restrictions in May, with retail and personal services such as hairdressing and barbers gradually reopening during the month.

It’s frightening what we’ve accepted in Ireland this past year. In 6 weeks time we might open businesses that have been open across Europe since May 2020

Mr Varadkar said people should not lose sight of the fact that cases are stable and falling, the Reproductive 'R' number is below one, people can go beyond 5km, and children are back in school.

Now for 5 of the last 6 months ye couldn’t go beyond 5km but ye can now so be ****ing glad or I’ll stop ye again

francogarbanzo · 15-04-2021 11:07AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Leo said it on Newstalk this morning

On track for vaccination of 4 out of 5 adults in June

He later said he preempted a situation in July and August where people will try to avoid MHQ by flying into NI and he hopes that won’t happen

Grim stuff

Why would we have mandatory hotel quarantine in place if 4 out of 5 adults is already vaccinated?

Captain_Crash · 15-04-2021 11:07AM

arccosh wrote: »

You don't understand the law so

No need to be pedantic, any SI’s in place now will be replaced/extended etc and nothing will change for you and I on May 4! We can both agree on that!

And yes I’m familiar with the law! 3 years studying it for a bachelors will do that!

FintanMcluskey · 15-04-2021 11:08AM

Graham wrote: »

MHQ for who, from what countries, with what prevalent variants, with what vaccination status?.

I’d imagine it’s all flights into Dublin from Shannon and Knock airport.

It’s important to remember Irish Covid is the most deadly of all covids across the globe

15-04-2021 11:11AM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

But Graham and others see no sign of any permanency whatsoever. All CT nonsense.

It's telling that Johnson and Hancock won't rule out future lockdowns when the UK has either reached, according to a UCL model, or is surely close to reaching herd immunity. And The Coronavirus Act has been extended until September.

Trudeau in Canada said the other day that vaccines "aren't enough to keep us safe". Donohue is saying restrictions until well into 2022. Same was said in Scotland and in Northern Ireland a few months ago. Australia is saying the border mightn't reopen post-vaccination, and there's no level 0 in the 'living with covid plan'. And we increasingly hear talk of 'a degree of normality' and 'a semblance of normality'. Level 1 would be 'a semblance of normality'.

dalyboy · 15-04-2021 11:14AM

Deleted User wrote: »

But the World Economic Forum is not a fringe organisation. They tweeted that lockdowns were improving city life. I expect to see calls for climate lockdowns to increase later this year and next year based on this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2021/03/03/report-world-needs-equivalent-of-pandemic-lockdown-every-two-years-to-meet-paris-carbon-emission-goals/?sh=5facd1606dee

Climate lockdowns. Every sane individual should shiver at the concept.
There’s shades of that movie “the purge” about it.

TomSweeney · 15-04-2021 11:15AM

Graham wrote: »

MHQ for who, from what countries, with what prevalent variants, with what vaccination status?

Personally I don't have a problem with MHQ being retained for high-risk inbounds.

Really ? That surprises me :rolleyes:

lawred2 · 15-04-2021 11:17AM

Deleted User wrote: »

But the World Economic Forum is not a fringe organisation. They tweeted that lockdowns were improving city life. I expect to see calls for climate lockdowns to increase later this year and next year based on this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2021/03/03/report-world-needs-equivalent-of-pandemic-lockdown-every-two-years-to-meet-paris-carbon-emission-goals/?sh=5facd1606dee

lock the vehicles out not the fu(king people

francogarbanzo · 15-04-2021 11:18AM

Graham wrote: »

MHQ for who, from what countries, with what prevalent variants, with what vaccination status?

Personally I don't have a problem with MHQ being retained for high-risk inbounds.

Why don't you have a problem with this? I thought the vaccine was the way out? If we have a high-percentage of people vaccinated, or even just the most vulnerable, why would we need to force anybody to quarantine, let alone detain them in a hotel?

Penfailed · 15-04-2021 11:19AM

rob316 wrote: »

I don't see foreign travel been reinstated this summer at all, not because of the virus but for economic reasons. The hospitality sector will need a boost and what better way than to keep us all in rip off republic. I'll sit out my back for the summer than pay 2 grand for a house down in Kerry for a week.

The hospitality sector will need a boost...but they're not getting it from me...yeah?

arccosh · 15-04-2021 11:26AM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's an example of a measure that was said to be temporary, but ended up being permanent.

Did the Second World War last until 1959, the year the Act was repealed?

no it didn't, but because the war ended in 1945 didn't mean there was complete stability straight away...

mix that in with Ireland going from free state to Republic with the very real threat of British requisition of land and home terrorism due to the official partitioning of the Republic an Northern Ireland, that's why it stayed in place.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings