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FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

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    #9902
    skimpydoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »
    They ALWAYS blame the messenger when they cannot counter the argument. It's funny.

    Total denial that MHQ is in the news every day for all the wrong reasons.

    They must like swimming in Egypt. They are always in denial ;):D


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    #9903
    CarProblem
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭CarProblem


    Case numbers down - woo hoo, the adults are delivering
    Case numbers the worst in the world - deflect and blame anyone but the government

    Longest lockdown - well we're putting health before business
    Open up at Xmas, ignoring health experts after intense lobbying from business (and despite whats claimed against what public polls indicated) and result in thousands of deaths and more lockdown - eh, sh!t, can we blame SF? Wait we'll say nobody saw it coming and hopefully the Irish Times will back us blindly again

    Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat


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    #9904
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    CarProblem wrote: »
    Case numbers down - woo hoo, the adults are delivering
    Case numbers the worst in the world - deflect and blame anyone but the government

    Longest lockdown - well we're putting health before business
    Open up at Xmas, ignoring health experts after intense lobbying from business (and despite whats claimed against what public polls indicated) and result in thousands of deaths and more lockdown - eh, sh!t, can we blame SF? Wait we'll say nobody saw it coming and hopefully the Irish Times will back us blindly again

    Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat

    Well case numbers come down when government lockdown.

    Case numbers go up when government open up.

    I think thats pretty obvious.

    People spread the virus, the government don't.

    Am I missing something here????


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    #9905
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Melanchthon wrote: »
    Quarter 1 of this year I would be worried about, lot more people who normally work all the time on supports .

    I think once the supports are taken away there will be an avalanche of businesses going under. Particularly in the hospitality sector. A lot of businesses destroyed and only kept going in name because of the supports. I pity anyone renting premises tbh.


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    #9906
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Well case numbers come down when government lockdown.

    Case numbers go up when government open up.

    I think thats pretty obvious.

    People spread the virus, the government don't.

    Am I missing something here????

    The government clearly missed it.


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    #9907
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The government clearly missed it.

    Missed what??

    Most countries have opened up and then locked down on numerous occasions during the pandemic as they learn more about the virus.

    Do you want me to link countries who are now in trouble again after easing restrictions?

    What's the point again???


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    #9908
    Finty Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The coalition ignored the health experts advice. The experts who knew what would happen and it did.

    Yes. And the opposition agreed. Plus more or less the whole country agreed too. We all need to reflect on the lessons learned. But its difficult to accept the wisdom of hindsight.

    People travelling home for Christmas, many through Belfast, played their part. Closing the border was not feasible. The rate in Monaghan shot up for example, not from tourism or meat factories like you previously claimed, but from cross border travel. The drop in rate since vaccination in NI bears that out to a large extent.

    Many countries had a Covid surge at Christmas. The data quoted reflect the Irish governments relative success in bringing it under control.


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    #9909
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Finty Lemon wrote: »
    Yes. And the opposition agreed. Plus more or less the whole country agreed too. We all need to reflect on the lessons learned. But its difficult to accept the wisdom of hindsight.

    People travelling home for Christmas, many through Belfast, played their part. Closing the border was not feasible. The rate in Monaghan shot up for example, not from tourism or meat factories like you previously claimed, but from cross border travel. The drop in rate since vaccination in NI bears that out to a large extent.

    Many countries had a Covid surge at Christmas. The data quoted reflect the Irish governments relative success in bringing it under control.

    The opposition agreeing or not doesn't remove the blame from those in power. You are just trying to deflect.


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    #9910
    CarProblem
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭CarProblem


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

    What's the point again???

    Tbh I thought it was clear

    Government cheerleaders on here applaud the government when cases fall

    They deflect, makes up excuses and don't blame the government when they rise


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    #9911
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The coalition ignored the health experts advice. The experts who knew what would happen and it did.

    Well that's not true

    The experts modelling was miles off.

    Seems the advice wasn't so expert after all.


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    #9912
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    CarProblem wrote: »
    Tbh I thought it was clear

    Government cheerleaders on here applaud the government when cases fall

    They deflect, makes up excuses and don't blame the government when they rise

    Well governments implement lockdowns which causes cases to fall.

    I still don't get what point you're making.


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    #9913
    CarProblem
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭CarProblem


    Finty Lemon wrote: »
    Plus more or less the whole country agreed too

    This keeps being repeated but is simply not true - public polling at the time did not indicate this

    https://twitter.com/TJRyan_77/status/1345824413044891656

    And even if it did (it didn't) wouldn't that be populism? What the likes of you criticise the opposition for?

    The government gave into lobbying from businesses (again). Part of that was the hospitality industry could be disingenuous and claim outbreaks weren't linked to restaurants and pubs when in fact the only reason the link couldn't be established was because of the abject failure the attempts at track and trace were


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    #9914
    Finty Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    skimpydoo wrote: »
    The Journal.ie is as credible a source as the indo and the Irish Times. Darren O'Rourke, Paul Murphy, Roisin Shorthall are in opposition parties and they are holding the government to account. If they did not do this they would not be doing their job.

    Does that make it credible?


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    #9915
    CarProblem
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭CarProblem


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    I still don't get what point you're making.

    Oh well I tried - i definitely though the second post pointing out the hypocrisy of the cheerleaders on here would do it but doesn't seem like it


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    #9916
    CarProblem
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭CarProblem


    Nobody saw it coming screamed the Irish Times

    Podcast dated the 26th of November entitled "Covid-19 - We're About to Make a Terrible Mistake"


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    #9917
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    CarProblem wrote: »
    Oh well I tried - i definitely though the second post pointing out the hypocrisy of the cheerleaders on here would do it but doesn't seem like it

    Government lockdown cases go down as people aren't moving around.

    Government open up cases go up as people are moving around(taking the piss)

    Simple logic really.

    As I said the government doesn't spread the virus.

    People spread it.


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    #9918
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    CarProblem wrote: »
    Nobody saw it coming screamed the Irish Times

    Podcast dated the 26th of November entitled "Covid-19 - We're About to Make a Terrible Mistake"

    The denials of all this are just obscene at this stage.


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    #9919
    CarProblem
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭CarProblem


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The denials of all this are just obscene at this stage.

    I try to stay out these threads for the sake of my own sanity. I'm actually convinced some of the posters are WUMs as they simply can't be that brainwashed


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    #9920
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The denials of all this are just obscene at this stage.

    Can you link one party who objected to the opening at Christmas?


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    #9921
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Can you link one party who objected to the opening at Christmas?

    What has it got to do with party's that were not in power? The GOVERNMENT ignored the expert advice. If SF, PBP, Lab, all waved flags in agreement that doesn't excuse the GOVERNMENT.


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    #9922
    Finty Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    One can accept that the government bears responsibility for decisions taken at Christmas. They are the elected government by popular majority of the people.

    By extension, one simply cannot accept criticism from parties who agreed with the actions taken, on the basis that it would be acceding to blatant hypocrisy. Similarly, individuals that flouted regulations have little grounds for finger pointing.

    The corollary is that one must also give credit to the government for taking actions that have put Ireland in a position of having low case numbers and mortality rates relative to comparable EU countries, most of which also had Covid spikes at Christmas.

    One must also recognise that Irelands vaccine programme is rolling out with relative speed compared to EU counterparts. That is, if one can accept facts.


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    #9923
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Finty Lemon wrote: »
    One can accept that the government bears responsibility for decisions taken at Christmas. They are the elected government by popular majority of the people.

    By extension, one simply cannot accept criticism from parties who agreed with the actions taken, on the basis that it would be acceding to blatant hypocrisy. Similarly, individuals that flouted regulations have little grounds for finger pointing.

    The corollary is that one must also give credit to the government for taking actions that have put Ireland in a position of having low case numbers and mortality rates relative to comparable EU countries, most of which also had Covid spikes at Christmas.

    One must also recognise that Irelands vaccine programme is rolling out with relative speed compared to EU counterparts. That is, if one can accept facts.

    Some will never accept facts if it means agreeing with da gubberment.


  • Options
    #9924
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Finty Lemon wrote: »
    One can accept that the government bears responsibility for decisions taken at Christmas. They are the elected government by popular majority of the people.

    By extension, one simply cannot accept criticism from parties who agreed with the actions taken, on the basis that it would be acceding to blatant hypocrisy. Similarly, individuals that flouted regulations have little grounds for finger pointing.

    The corollary is that one must also give credit to the government for taking actions that have put Ireland in a position of having low case numbers and mortality rates relative to comparable EU countries, most of which also had Covid spikes at Christmas.

    One must also recognise that Irelands vaccine programme is rolling out with relative speed compared to EU counterparts. That is, if one can accept facts.

    The government is where the buck stops. Glad you agree.

    BTW, the government was formed after the election. The 'government' wasn't elected therefore.


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    #9925
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [QUOTE=FrancieBrady;116894107 BTW, the government was formed after the election. The 'government' wasn't elected therefore.[/QUOTE]
    Really? Wha are they doing running the country so?
    Oh, silly me. No one else wanted the job!


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    #9926
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,496 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Really? Wha are they doing running the country so?
    Oh, silly me. No one else wanted the job!

    Again...divert.


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    #9927
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Again...divert.

    Again......facts.


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    #9928
    skimpydoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Finty Lemon wrote: »
    Does that make it credible?
    Maybe not but just pointing out that the Journal is as credible as other news publications.


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    #9929
    skimpydoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Really? Wha are they doing running the country so?
    Oh, silly me. No one else wanted the job!

    No nobody wanted to go in with SF and they did not want another election because of the pandemic and because FFG knew SF would gain more seats.


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    #9930
    TheTruth21
    Site Banned Posts: 71 ✭✭TheTruth21


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Some will never accept facts if it means agreeing with da gubberment.

    Can you agree with the fact, the govt since the first day NPHET said Hotel Quarantine was needed for all arrivals, the Govt have not listened.

    Thats a fact


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    #9931
    skimpydoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    TheTruth21 wrote: »
    Can you agree with the fact, the govt since the first day NPHET said Hotel Quarantine was needed for all arrivals, the Govt have not listened.

    Thats a fact
    Don't forget Leo openly denigrating Holohan and also leaking info from a meeting with NPHET.


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