Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

12-04-2021 01:54PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

How do you get a PCR test taken if you can't leave your quarantine location though?

Obviously its one of the expemptions

a_squirrelman · 12-04-2021 01:56PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

How do you get a PCR test taken if you can't leave your quarantine location though?

I guess most gards will be sound and let you carry on to your testing location.

joseywhales · 12-04-2021 02:00PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Nobody is being arbitrarily detained by the state... People are choosing to come to our country from another and must follow the law when they land... They can choose not to enter the state if they do not wish to quarantine

It makes more sense to have a mandatory hotel quarantine system in place for a handful of tourists for 2 weeks than to half-arsedly force an entire nation to stay within 5km of their homes for 3 months

My problem is not with inhibiting tourism, it's that some of the travel I wouldn't tag as tourism. For example I want to visit my parents, I don't see that so much as tourism as my duty to the people responsible for mt life. I cant do it, for some indefinite period, due to mhq. they need to either:

Clarify the rules and be committed and not move goal posts, so we can plan for an exit date.

Exempt travelling home to visit family as essential travel

They will not do the later, so I'm hoping they can do the former.

12-04-2021 02:33PM

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Roberto Lopes for Shamrock Rovers would feel hard done by if there are exemptions made for professional sportspeople in Ireland after he did his 2 weeks in detention.

My guess is the IRFU will put massive pressure on the gov and they'll succumb to option B though.

And Option B is the correct answer!

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1381561043906924544

Chivito550 · 12-04-2021 02:37PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Nobody is being arbitrarily detained by the state... People are choosing to come to our country from another and must follow the law when they land... They can choose not to enter the state if they do not wish to quarantine

It makes more sense to have a mandatory hotel quarantine system in place for a handful of tourists for 2 weeks than to half-arsedly force an entire nation to stay within 5km of their homes for 3 months

"Tourist".

I wish people would stop using that word.

There are no tourists coming here. Why the f**k would a tourist want to come here right now!

munchkin_utd · 12-04-2021 02:41PM

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

And Option B is the correct answer!

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1381561043906924544

so coming back to Ireland to see a parent on their death bed who could die any minute is not essential travel BUT going to or from an area of high incidence of variants is essential if you're just looking to play a bit of sport.

Grand so.

If my mam or dad (in their 80s) gets seriously ill or dies I just need to somehow become an elite athlete to come home for the hospital visit or funeral.

12-04-2021 02:42PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

"Tourist".

I wish people would stop using that word.

There are no tourists coming here. Why the f**k would a tourist want to come here right now!

people like that particular poster use the words 'tourists' and 'holliers' to try to belittle the whole thing. Completely blind to the fact there there are no tourists; rather there are people who need to travel for their own essential reasons, having been cut off from family for so many months. It's just their way to try to win the argument

12-04-2021 02:43PM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

so coming back to Ireland to see a parent on their death bed who could die any minute is not essential travel BUT going to or from an area of high incidence of variants is essential if you're just looking to play a bit of sport.

Grand so.

If my mam or dad (in their 80s) gets seriously ill or dies I just need to somehow become an elite athlete to come home for the hospital visit or funeral.

get training....there's still time to get to most olympic qualifying events!

faceman · 12-04-2021 02:44PM

Um NPHET won’t like this

https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1381253017169768451?s=21

JojoLoca · 12-04-2021 02:45PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Nobody is being arbitrarily detained by the state... People are choosing to come to our country from another and must follow the law when they land... They can choose not to enter the state if they do not wish to quarantine

It makes more sense to have a mandatory hotel quarantine system in place for a handful of tourists for 2 weeks than to half-arsedly force an entire nation to stay within 5km of their homes for 3 months

There are hundreds of thousands of "tourists" living and working in Ireland. The entire nation was able to break the 5km limit for the essential reasons (like family emergency), yet the "tourists" should pay €1900 for that privilege?

Red Silurian · 12-04-2021 03:26PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Obviously its one of the expemptions

Obviously it should be but with the govt we have in power I'd wonder...

Chivito550 wrote: »

"Tourist".

I wish people would stop using that word.

There are no tourists coming here. Why the f**k would a tourist want to come here right now!

Tourists love coming here, sure wasn't that one of the problems last summer with the yanks coming over infecting an almost COVID free Kerry?

joseywhales wrote: »

My problem is not with inhibiting tourism, it's that some of the travel I wouldn't tag as tourism. For example I want to visit my parents, I don't see that so much as tourism as my duty to the people responsible for mt life. I cant do it, for some indefinite period, due to mhq. they need to either:

Clarify the rules and be committed and not move goal posts, so we can plan for an exit date.

Exempt travelling home to visit family as essential travel

They will not do the later, so I'm hoping they can do the former.

Visiting parents isn't essential though and if you are coming from a red listed country you risk spreading the virus to them so you should probably be isolating anyway before seeing them

joseywhales · 12-04-2021 03:32PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Visiting parents isn't essential though and if you are coming from a red listed country you risk spreading the virus to them so you should probably be isolating anyway before seeing them

Yes but as a rational person, given that I am fully vaccinated and have a pcr test before and after each flight, with their approval, I will be able to talk to them in the garden. Precious moments that I am missing out on, for no very good reason as far as I can tell.

Red Silurian · 12-04-2021 03:43PM

joseywhales wrote: »

Yes but as a rational person, given that I am fully vaccinated and have a pcr test before and after each flight, with their approval, I will be able to talk to them in the garden. Precious moments that I am missing out on, for no very good reason as far as I can tell.

The problem isn't you, it's everybody who isn't vaccinated that could come in and spread the virus like wildfire that we don't want... And you know as well as I do that people will chance it

timmyntc · 12-04-2021 03:49PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

The problem isn't you, it's everybody who isn't vaccinated that could come in and spread the virus like wildfire that we don't want... And you know as well as I do that people will chance it

But the majority of virus spread comes from within our own country.
i.e. from Irish person to Irish person

Travel accounts for less than 2% of cases.

Red Silurian · 12-04-2021 04:03PM

timmyntc wrote: »

But the majority of virus spread comes from within our own country.
i.e. from Irish person to Irish person

Travel accounts for less than 2% of cases.

That's very misleading... In the below article somebody came back from holidays and didn't restrict movements resulting in 56 individuals in ten households and a sports team contracting Covid-19. So technically less than 2% of the cases (the 1 man of the 56) were accounted as travel and the other 55 were recorded as community transmission - as were the cases that the other 55 passed on

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1019/1172407-covid-19-midwest/

Valhallapt · 12-04-2021 04:07PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

That's very misleading... In the below article somebody came back from holidays and didn't restrict movements resulting in 56 individuals in ten households and a sports team contracting Covid-19. So technically less than 2% of the cases (the 1 man of the 56) were accounted as travel and the other 55 were recorded as community transmission - as were the cases that the other 55 passed on

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1019/1172407-covid-19-midwest/

Sounds more like 56 individuals did not follow social distancing rules to me. The first individual went to a house party - which no one should have attended.

NSAman · 12-04-2021 04:08PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

The problem isn't you, it's everybody who isn't vaccinated that could come in and spread the virus like wildfire that we don't want... And you know as well as I do that people will chance it

So you mean those of us who ARE vaccinated, who decide to go and see those parents who we haven't seen in 2 years are not the problem?

I think me going back to Ireland being vaccinated, with a negative PCR test has about as much chance of spreading it to a vaccinated parent, as them picking it up while shopping??

zebastein · 12-04-2021 04:13PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

That's very misleading... In the below article somebody came back from holidays and didn't restrict movements resulting in 56 individuals in ten households and a sports team contracting Covid-19. So technically less than 2% of the cases (the 1 man of the 56) were accounted as travel and the other 55 were recorded as community transmission - as were the cases that the other 55 passed on

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1019/1172407-covid-19-midwest/

And we are not sure either that people who are flagged as travel related are actually contaminated by their travel.
I go abroad for the weekend (Friday - Sunday), if I test positive the day I land, did I get infected abroad or in Ireland the week before.
If I get a negative test on arrival and a positive PCR test 5days later, is it travel related or community related.

There are misleading classifications in both groups.

munchkin_utd · 12-04-2021 04:15PM

Valhallapt wrote: »

Sounds more like 56 individuals did not follow social distancing rules to me. The first individual went to a house party - which no one should have attended.

That there is also not an example of a yank straight off the plane.

More like an irish based person who might make a living from not following the rules or giving a crap about their community, and doing the same both in Spain and on their return from a fortnight on the sesh

Red Silurian · 12-04-2021 04:15PM

Valhallapt wrote: »

Sounds more like 56 individuals did not follow social distancing rules to me. The first individual went to a house party - which no one should have attended.

Depends on the size of the house party, at certain times the govt (unwittingly) permitted 50 people to meet up, the ban on house visits didn't come in until after that article was released

But it doesn't detract from the point that the first individual was meant to isolate on his return, not attend a house party. In fact he was meant to not go abroad on holiday

Here's another interesting one of an outbreak on a plane

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40213163.html

Red Silurian · 12-04-2021 04:20PM

NSAman wrote: »

So you mean those of us who ARE vaccinated, who decide to go and see those parents who we haven't seen in 2 years are not the problem?

I think me going back to Ireland being vaccinated, with a negative PCR test has about as much chance of spreading it to a vaccinated parent, as them picking it up while shopping??

Yes, was that not obvious? Sorry I thought it was, also your negative PCR doesn't stop you picking it up

zebastein wrote: »

And we are not sure either that people who are flagged as travel related are actually contaminated by their travel.
I go abroad for the weekend (Friday - Sunday), if I test positive the day I land, did I get infected abroad or in Ireland the week before.
If I get a negative test on arrival and a positive PCR test 5days later, is it travel related or community related.

There are misleading classifications in both groups.

If you don't travel you are a positive case at home rather than abroad and you are infecting far fewer people and don't have to get on a plane back home after your weekend away as a positive case

carveone · 12-04-2021 04:23PM

I'm sure everyone knows this at this stage but both travellers from Israel have been released from quarantine on the grounds that:

Having regard to the substantially improved epidemiological situation in the states concerned, arrangements have been made on an exceptional basis for the small number of persons who have arrived in Ireland from any of these three states in recent days, and who have not been in any other designated state in the 14 days before their arrival in Ireland, to be permitted to leave mandatory hotel quarantine as soon as they wish.

Ah, the old "on an exceptional basis" line based on a "substantially improved situation" that presumably happened between tuesday and friday last week. And, in a complete coincidence, it now saves the government having to explain in court why Israel was on the list in the first place, that country not meeting the government's own criteria for being on the list, or having to explain why there's no policy with regards to vaccination other than Ryan saying:

... there is currently no streamlined process to ‘certify’ those who have been vaccinated or previously diagnosed with Covid-19 in a way that could allow them to skip quarantine.

Ah yes. And such policy will remain until someone like Intel decides that they'll have to close their plant here as a result and screaming and finger pointing will follow. Can't wait to be told that we're living way beyond our means and austerity is the only way to pay for us getting ahead of ourselves.

zebastein · 12-04-2021 04:29PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Depends on the size of the house party, at certain times the govt (unwittingly) permitted 50 people to meet up, the ban on house visits didn't come in until after that article was released

But it doesn't detract from the point that the first individual was meant to isolate on his return, not attend a house party. In fact he was meant to not go abroad on holiday

Here's another interesting one of an outbreak on a plane

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40213163.html

Can we really evaluate a risk based on:
- an individual example
- a situation that was 10months ago with different restrictions (no PCR test before boarding)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/10/15/study-risk-of-covid-19-transmission-on-planes-virtually-nonexistent-for-mask-wearers/?sh=6712f1bf787b

There is never 0 risk anywhere. What your example shows is that enforcing current restrictions (house parties, quarantine at home) would be more efficient in breaking the transmission chain than adding something complicated like the MHQ.

Red Silurian · 12-04-2021 04:34PM

zebastein wrote: »

Can we really evaluate a risk based on:
- an individual example
- a situation that was 10months ago with different restrictions (no PCR test before boarding)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/10/15/study-risk-of-covid-19-transmission-on-planes-virtually-nonexistent-for-mask-wearers/?sh=6712f1bf787b

There is never 0 risk anywhere. What your example shows is that enforcing current restrictions (house parties, quarantine at home) would be more efficient in breaking the transmission chain than adding something complicated like the MHQ.

What it shows is that if the person had either not gone on holidays or quarantined for 14 days on returning it wouldn't have happened, the fact that it was 10 months ago (or 8 months ago in this case) means very little

We either stop people going abroad, logistically I'm not sure how we can do that, or make sure they're quarantined on their return or else keep everything in our own country closed

WHich one of the 3 would you prefer?

Valhallapt · 12-04-2021 04:35PM

FYI - Anyone wanting to go on holiday, easyJet have increased from frequencies out of Belfast on some sun destinations like the Algarve etc, prices are reasonable at the min. AerLingus have signalled they may also increase capacity out of Belfast later in the year.

zebastein · 12-04-2021 04:38PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

If you don't travel you are a positive case at home rather than abroad and you are infecting far fewer people and don't have to get on a plane back home after your weekend away as a positive case

You are right but this idea denies the fact that people need to travel. Fifty years ago, people would have all their lives in a 50km perimeter, but that is not the case anymore.
There are 500k people living in Ireland who are not Irish citizens. Add the Irish citizens that have family or any other business abroad. If only 1% of them have an essential reason to travel (legal, medical, funeral...), that is still thousands of people traveling.

is_that_so · 12-04-2021 04:38PM

FileNotFound wrote: »

Is it really trampling all over our rights, was international travel enshrined into the constitution? I did see other argue the concept of home quarantine was also unconstitutional?

I suppose in general the concept of limitation of freedoms is plain wrong and crosses a dangerous line. But is it fair that people come in and out of the country freely if they pose a risk to the people of the nation?

Even the opposition are not against this move, in fact they are all for, when i see pretty much the entire dail that love tearing each other down agree a move in general is good, I tend to think that maybe it has merit!

That's for courts to decide. If it's bad legislation they will do that. That risk is alleged. For example it's 10 v 750 at present, that's cases in hotels v walk-ins. Those in quarantine are also at risk from the bad behaviour of the rest of us when they come out.

As someone commented on the politics of this anyone could back it given the apparent public mood but it sets a very bad precedent.

munchkin_utd · 12-04-2021 04:43PM

is_that_so wrote: »

That's for courts to decide. If it's bad legislation they will do that. That risk is alleged. For example it's 10 v 750 at present, that's cases in hotels v walk-ins. Those in quarantine are also at risk from the bad behaviour of the rest of us when they come out.

As someone commented on the politics of this anyone could back it given the apparent public mood but it sets a very bad precedent.

its for the courts to decide but if the government conceeds before it gets to a verdict then they can protect their dodgy legislation / very dodgy "expert" advice

ffs, they categorised Israel as a high risk country and them with a fraction of the covid infections as Ireland and no issue with variants !! Do the "experts" just throw a dart at the map and list whatever country it hits ?

carveone · 12-04-2021 04:53PM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

its for the courts to decide but if the government conceeds before it gets to a verdict then they can protect their dodgy legislation / very dodgy "expert" advice

Which is referencing the quarantine challenge court case today, which resulted in: "No need for the case to proceed" (move on, nothing to see here):
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0412/1209289-coronavirus-quarantine-challenge/

Cymini Sectores · 12-04-2021 04:57PM

A colleague of mine who is a health care worker and should know better is traveling to a high risk country for his wedding. This is a reason for quarantine when back and not a valid reason to travel! While he is fully vaccinated with pfizer, it would be useless against variants. He has got the cash to spare but will be missing work while in quarantine, and has asked me to do some of his shifts. I am pretty conflicted and have thought of reporting him to HR before he travels.

Left for me, I'd rather the government shut down international travel especially people coming from the UK at least till the end of the year

Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Comments