Now ye're talking - to a man living in Qatar

Lmkrnr wrote: »

Did the two Boobie Girls make the News in Qatar?

I don't think so, but the Ukrainian models on the balcony in Dubai certainly did!

feargantae wrote: »

You mention money quite a few times in your answers so can i ask how much you earn a month? Would it be safe to assume you live quite comfortably?

You've been away from Éire for a decade but do you often come back home to visit? Current situation excluded of course! How do you stay in touch with Ireland/Irish culture? Would you watch RTÉ/TG4, keep up with Irish news, elections, current affairs etc?

So I am an experienced and senior manager. When I left Ireland 10 years ago I was earning 100,000 Euros. I more than doubled my salary. I do live comfortably, but life here can be expensive too. You really can't buy property and renting is expensive - a 4-bed family house would cost around 4,000 Euros per month.

I come back to Ireland at least once a year and often twice - but I'm not sure that I'll ever live there again (the weather is atrocious!).

I read the Irish news online and follow various commentators on Twitter, but I don't watch Irish TV.

listermint wrote: »

With all due respect I've the utmost respect for their beliefs and culture , I was responding to what was evidently untrue that this would not impact your daughter. The poster was correct it will . It impacts a swathe of choices for her.

I have no feelings on a wholely muslim country changing it's culture to suit me. I know many muslim people it's their faith ,just like any other faith. Folks are free to practice and live their religious choices.

I was merely pointing out an inaccuracy in your response and noting that your comparison to an ireland a generation ago was weak.


Thanks for taking part btw . Its good discussion.

I think perhaps you are not appreciating that I and my family live in a world that is almost hermetically sealed from Arabic and Muslim culture - largely because that is how our hosts want it.

My daughter went to a fantastic international school, has just aced the International Baccalaureate, and is already accepted into a prestigious European university.

Growing up in a multicultural environment in Qatar has broadened her perspectives and has given her far more choices in life than if we had stayed in Ireland.

I certainly came here for the money, but the real long-term benefit has been the experience and opportunities that all of our children have had.

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I live in Oman, similar experience. A few friends came from Qatar to Oman and all have very fond memories. On the blue collar worker thing, yes they don't have it easy but it beats where most of these people come from in India or Bangladesh. They are there for the same reason as all of us, economic migration and to send money home to make a better life when they return.

I have visited Oman, and I also have a few friends who moved from Qatar to Oman.

One of the things that people tell me is that you are much more likely to have an opportunity to have social interactions with Omanis than with Qataris. The Omanis are not as wealthy, and you will find them running corner shops and driving taxis etc. jobs that you will never find a Qatari doing.

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

I personally believe that any Westerner who moves to authoritarian theocracies such as Qatar or the UAE are complicit in the human rights atrocities committed by the local regime. In other words the price for your high salary and standard of living is being paid for by slave labour+.

What is your immediate response to my beliefs?

Going off topic for a moment I remember there was an AMA in here with an American policeman and the only dissenting poster was asked not to post again.

I wasn’t a member of the site then but I remember thinking that it was incredible that the moderators who ran this forum were allowing propaganda be issued on this site in favour of a paramilitary terrorist organisation like the US police.

I’m just pointing this out because I think the same thing is happening here today, that a poster is using Boards.ie in order to distribute pro-Qatar propaganda. After George Floyd that first poster in the police thread will be perceived to be on the right side of history and so will I when the true extent of the atrocities committed in order to build the football stadiums(!) for Qatar 2022 emerge.



+source: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/world-cup-2022-qatar-s-workers-slaves-building-mausoleums-stadiums-modern-slavery-kafala-a7980816.html

Firstly, let me say that you are entitled to whatever beliefs you think are appropriate for you. I have no response, immediate or otherwise, to your beliefs. I will however discuss workers rights. You may not like or agree with what I say - but it is not propaganda, it is fact.

Secondly, you can certainly make the argument that any Westerner who moves to countries like Qatar or the UAE are complicit in the human rights atrocities committed by the local regime, but if you are to be fair you must also accept that anyone who buys a shirt made in the sweatshops of Bangladesh, or owns a smartphone with cobalt mined by children in DRC, or drinks lattes made from coffee harvested by wage slaves is equally complicit in those human rights atrocities. The world is enormously unfair and all of us white western posters on Boards.ie live lives that depend upon the exploitation of others.

We tend not to see the connections between out lifestyles and the exploitation of others because that exploitation takes place far away from us. Perhaps the difference in the Middle East is that the wealthy and the poor live side by side.

By the way my salary is not paid for by slave labour, my salary is paid from the emormous wealth of the State of Qatar, which in turn is based on the fact that they happen to share with Iran the largest natural gas field in the world.

So, turning then to the construction that is taking place in Qatar (including the Stadia - though that is just a small part of the total). I think that it can sometimes be difficult to comprehend the scale of the construction work that is taking place in Qatar. The Qataris are currently spending half a billion dollars a week on infrastructure. There is a new airport, harbour, Metro, motorways, 5G systems, public parks, sewage systems, water desalination plants, district cooling plants and dozens of new hotels. The infrastructure is far ahead of any European city that I can think of, all done in 20 years or so.

My work relates (at a tangent at least) to the insurance industry and so I am (to some degree) familiar with death rates, and statistics about the levels of accidents in the workplace etc.

Some media commentators (and I think the Guardian leads the charge here) frequently refer to the thousands of migrant workers who have dies since Qatar was awarded the World Cup. For example:

Revealed: 6,500 migrant workers have died in Qatar since World Cup awarded
Guardian analysis indicates shocking figure over the past decade likely to be an underestimate
www.theguardian.com

Let's accept the number of 6,500 as a fact.

The population of Qatar is 2.9m of which only about 300,000 are Qatari. Only the Qataris can stay in Qatar indefinitely so the other 2.5m (including me) are migrant workers. But let us assume that we're talking about "blue-collar" workers only. Approx 69.7% of the migrant workers in Qatar are "blue-collar":
(PDF) Demography, Migration, and Labour Market in Qatar- UPDATED June 2017.

That gives us 1.8m manual workers - mostly from South East Asia - India, Nepal, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.

The article mentions that Filipinos and Kenyans are not included in its death tally. Most Filipinos speak English very well and are typically employed in the retail and services sectors - with some working as home help. I have never seen a Filipino doing unskilled manual labour. Most Kenyans also speak English and seem to be usually employed (male and female) as security guards - I have never seen a Kenyan doing unskilled manual labour. The Filipinos (approx 250,000) are therefore typically not in the "blue-collar" category. There are approx 30,000 Kenyans - I'm not sure how they are classified but that number does not materially impact on things.

So returning to the number of deaths - 6,500 over 10 years = 650 per annum. Let's also reduce the number of manual workers from 1.8m to 1.5m because numbers have probably increased over the past couple of years.

That gives us 650 deaths per year from a population of 1.5m males (aged typically from 25 - 55) from India, Nepal, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.

That in turn gives us a death rate of 43 per 100,000. In the United States the death rate for men between the ages of 25 and 55 is 306.

Another factor that should lead to a higher number for Qatari manual labourers is that most are engaged in the construction sector, which in every country has a higher accident and death rate than for all employments aggregated.

On the other side of the scales we should remember that the American numbers count everyone in the United States of that age group whereas the Qatar migrants numbers relate only to men who were fit to work and who passed a health and blood test - for example, anyone with TB or AIDS is not allowed in.

Nevertheless, bringing all of this together, the real story here is not why is the death rate among Qatar migrant manual workers so high, but why is it so low?

There are a couple of factors:
• The first reason is that all of the workers who come to Qatar (including me) must pass a health check. So anyone with a serious underlying condition or illness cannot work in Qatar, and that is definitely skewing the numbers;
• Secondly employment, accommodation and nutrition standards for manual workers are fairly good in general, perhaps not what the average boards.ie reader might find acceptable, but the average low-skilled South Asian worker, coming from the slums of Dhaka or Lahore, is generally content.
• Thirdly labour rights and health and safety standards are probably the best in the region - and I know that may not be saying much - but the Qataris appear to be genuinely engaged in this issue. The International Labor Organisation has a permanent office in Qatar and works closely with the Government on issues affecting workers rights. It has to be said that it is a work in progress, but it is moving. ILO Project Office for the State of Qatar (Arab States)
• And finally there is world-class healthcare system in Qatar, it is available to every resident, and it is free. I am fully vaccinated against Covid. My teenage kids got their first shots last week, and they queued up at a public vaccination station along with workers from every nationality.

I will make a separate post about the wages paid to manual workers.

smurfjed wrote: »

I would rate Omanis as the friendliest, and strangely enough Saudi’s in second place. In the UAE, Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait, I have never really interacted with locals, they just don’t appear to do jobs where you would interact with them.

The World Cup will be a big deal next year, but are they seriously ready for football fans? What about the price of a beer, will it be within the budget of most fans. With games days apart, what are they golfing to do to keep these fans amused.

Usually you can only get a beer in a hotel bar, and they're all in 4 or 5 star hotels. A beer can easily cost 15 Euros, but usually there is a "happy hour" from 5-7 when selected beers (usually the most popular) are half price. They're generally OK with you ordering 2 or 3 more beers at 6:55.

At the recent world club football finals in February there were Fan-zones set up near the stadium where they provided live music and alcohol. Most people think that was a "dry" run for the World Cup.

I don't think there'll be as many fans travelling from Europe as there would be if the Cup was held in Europe, but they'll have no problem filling the stadiums with Saudis, Egyptians, Syrians etc. Every able-bodied Qatari will also attend every game that they can - they are stone mad for football. I have heard, its just a rumour, that Qatari companies have bought up all of the boxes and that unless you are a FIFA sponsor you won't be able to get a box.

As for what the fans might to to stay amused I wonder myself if some fans will opt to base themselves in Dubai and fly in and out for the games.

YoshiReturns wrote: »

How does the country/culture handle/tolerate stuff like littering, illegal dumping, dog fouling, anti social behaviour, gangs ...
Stuff that seems to get kid gloves treatment in Ireland and makes life depressing here ?

Hi and thanks for the question.

So the demographics of Qatar are nothing like what they are in most other countries:
https://www.populationpyramid.net/qatar/2019/

The vast majority of non-Qataris living in the country are here to work and to make money to send home, whether home is Berlin or Bangalore. Crime is exceptionally low and, where people are caught and jailed for criminal activity they are immediately deported on release. Serious anti-social behaviour might also result in deportation. But apart from the occasional westerner making an ass of himself/herself under the influence of alcohol, or minor burglaries, there is very little anti-social behavior among immigrants.

Nobody under the age of 21 is allowed into a bar, so western teenagers mainly socialise at each others houses. Usually from about the age of 16 it is understood that there might be a few beers or glasses of wine available for those that want it. A surprisingly high number of kids don't drink and it's my impression that western teenagers are much more likely to have Indian or Arabic friends than their parents.

Qatari teenagers aren't supposed to have access to drink, maybe some do, nowhere is perfect. But the biggest anti-social behaviour that you'll find Qatari boys up to is driving very fast in big SUVs. I prefer to keep well out of their way.

Littering and illegal dumping are a problem in the country, and it is real shame to find litter in otherwise beautiful parts of the coastline or desert. The air quality is also not good in Doha and I would caution anyone with serious respiratory issues about coming to live here. The emissions from the oil and gas industries, and the related petro-chemical plants, and the dust caused by the scale of construction all combine with the natural sandy and dusty conditions to make air quality a real issue.

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Do you play the Guitar?

I'm afraid that I have given up on the dream of becoming a guitar legend.

If you want to impress the locals then the pronunciation is closer to "cutter".

There's a YouTube video for everything:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utP3PbWHZrU

Piehead wrote: »

What do you work at and what’s the salary like? How much income tax is there?

I work as a management consultant, my salary is broadly twice what I was earning in Ireland (gross) before I came here, and there is no income tax in Qatar.