Galway Commuter Rail: Galway-Athenry

LXFlyer wrote: »

Four tracking is needed:

Northern line in Dublin between Clontarf Road and Raheny to facilitate Enterprise and outer suburban services (could get away with three tracking)

From west of Inchicore to Islandbridge Junction to facilitate DART Southwest four tracking is needed

I'd forgotten they haven't done that yet (and I use that line lol)

LXFlyer wrote: »

Double tracking the following:

Yeah, loads of places need double tracking. Would like to see double between Galway and Dublin (if I remember the Athlone-Muillingar route was double tracked, and Clara was just a branch line or something)

LXFlyer wrote: »

There isn't a need for quite all of those.

Line capacity is certainly not a problem between Hazelhatch and Portlaoise, south of Greystones, nor between Mallow and Cork.

There is plenty of scope for extra services there as it is.

Not that there's a compelling need for all of the above but rather more need than there is for a tripple or quadruple track from Athenry to Galway.

LXFlyer wrote: »

Dublin-Belfast in a realistic time can be made happen using the existing alignment, through providing additional three/four tracking, passing loops, and elimination of permanent speed restrictions. You certainly do not need a completely new railway.

Not desirable though and ultimately limiting what can be done in the future. A straighter intercity alignment that doesn't go near the commuter line will be needed to accommodate a medium/high speed inter city service. The straighter alignment could also offer intercity rail access to Dublin Airport and offer Drogheda/Dubdalk commuters a much more direct link to Dublin without stopping at 12 additional stations. Removing long distance from existing line would allow for 5 minute or greater frequency to Drogheda with a Howth shuttle service. Also easier to build it, mostly greenfield sites close to the M1, no need to be buying up suburban back gardens and getting all the noise hassle.

LXFlyer wrote: »

I don't want to stray off topic much, but I really think you're getting a bit carried away here. I don't think Drogheda to Dublin is ever going to need a five minute frequency of commuter services.

The existing line can be expanded sufficiently to allow for commuter and Enterprise to co-exist through additional tracks and passing loops where needed. Three tracking Clontarf Road-Raheny can probably be done within the existing railway area, but four tracking would indeed need CPO activity.

I just don't see a brand new railway line like that as even remotely likely to happen. What I certainly see happening is the existing infrastructure being upgraded significantly where necessary in order to deliver real improvements. That is perfectly feasible through extra tracks where necessary, and overtaking facilities at certain locations.

Jim Meade has recently indicated that his strategy is to expand the number of tracks on the Northern Line out of Dublin as part of the plan to upgrade the Enterprise (as opposed to part of DART+).

Adding extra tracks is useful of course but a future €15bn high speed rail system will no doubt require a higher spec alignment than what the existing Northern Line can offer long term.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/review-of-15bn-high-speed-rail-line-linking-dublin-belfast-cork-1.4321928

LXFlyer wrote: »

I just don’t see that ever happening. It’s a pipedream.

Ireland does not need a EUR15bn high speed rail line.

What it needs is the existing infrastructure upgraded with the necessary enhancements to deliver the potential that it can, with extra tracks, realignments, removal of level crossings, re-signalling and higher speeds which would frankly be sufficient.

Real improvements can be delivered without building massive new high speed lines.

€15bn isn't sufficient to build a completely new high speed system, it would be a retrofitting of the existing system with electrification, removal of the remaining level crossings, bypasses of commuter rail and straightening of the worst sections. No reason why Ireland shouldn't have this ambition. Obviously commuter systems are higher priority and we're about a century behind the developed world in that regard.

If GY-Athenry is ever doubled, what might be the service patterns?

I presume doubling would mean at least one new station in Merlin/Roscam.

DUB-GY would they stop at all stations?
GY-LK would the number of services increase?


Or would the DUB trains stop only in Athenry?
And then that is combined with a local stopper GY-new station-Oranmore-Athenry?


In terms of journey times, what might be the improvements?


Thanks.

bk wrote: »

Well high speed rail between Dublin and Belfast will never happen until we get a unified Ireland. As we see with Brexit, the risk of it getting shutdown or having to put checks in is too high otherwise.

Even then, it feels like a massive waste of money. The same 15 billion could build 5 Metro lines!

Could you imagine how public transport would be transformed if we had 4 Metro lines in Dublin (Metrolink + 3 of the above 5) and one each in Cork and Limerick.

There isn't even direct flights between Dublin and Belfast, I don't know where the demand for high speed rail would come from.

You will certainly see the existing Dublin-Belfast line upgraded and electrified, which will involve three/four tracking, loops and permanent speed restrictions eliminated wherever possible which should finally deliver faster journeys.

The same applies to the Dublin-Cork line.

I don't see any new alignments happening at all.

Geuze wrote: »

OK, thanks, this suggests that doubling would not have any impact on speed limits?

Surely if we spend the money on doubling, we may as well make sure the line can take 160 kph?

Or even 200kph?

OK, it's just for maybe 20km, but better to future-proof it?

You have a penchant for putting carts before horses.

We don't even know exactly what is going to happen here.

We have no idea of what the scope of the project is going to be, whether level crossings will be eliminated, any other stations added, etc.

You are asking detailed questions about journey times and stopping patterns that are impossible to answer.

All that you can discuss is at a high level.

What I would say on the topic is, that the line speed is currently 90mph between Athlone and Galway, subject to permanent speed restrictions.

There may be some changes to these permanent speed restrictions due to elimination of level crossings, if that is part of whatever the project involves, the details of which have not even been announced yet.

But the impact on the journey time between Galway and Athenry is going to be minimal given that it is only 13.5 miles of track, with the existing journey times being dependent on the number of stops, and the type of train (different top speeds), and in the case of westbound trains whether recovery time is built into the schedule, and ranges from 15 minutes to 19 minutes where there is no need to wait at Galway Loop.

The main gain from doubling the track would be the ability to run more frequent trains, in both directions and not having to wait at the passing loop at Galway.

Any journey times savings would be minimal given the short distance involved.

But again, I emphasise, nothing has been published yet about the scope of the project, and until that happens, you cannot get down into the level of detail that you focus on.

AngryLips wrote: »

Frankly, it's hard to see how any more investment in the Dublin-Belfast line can be justified when the service doesn't even warrant hourly frequencies.

Probably better to discuss that in the IE strategy thread here:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058165971

I don't want to go off topic here.

Funding has been approved for the passing loop at Oranmore.

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2021/0312/1203564-west-regeneration/

MyLove4Satan wrote: »

The current station really is in a horrible location all things considered.

It's grand for a park and ride.

Rulmeq wrote: »

It's grand for a park and ride.

That's exactly it - if it was not located where it is, there would be no space around it to develop the car parking needed.

There is a very large amount of car-dependent, one-off housing scattered all around the Oranmore-Athenry area, which would otherwise be pouring into the city.

The fact that (pre-pandemic) the car park was full and that cars were parked all the way out the entrance to the coast road, suggests that the station is carrying out its function as a park and ride very successfully.

Right now the only funding is for a passing loop at the existing Oranmore station, which will facilitate additional services between Athenry and Galway.

That’s it for the moment.

People are jumping ahead of themselves here a bit with talk of new stations or relocating stations.

IE 222 wrote: »

€12 million does seem to be on the rather high side. Given Pelletstown is estimated at €10 million and in my opinion is a more difficult and complex job. The current station cost in the region of €5 million already. I think it's rather odd to be potentially pumping €17 million into a station that's possibly in the wrong location and could perform better elsewhere.

I don't think a relocation and station rebuild would cost much more to be fair. For example, the former station location would remove the need for an accessible footbridge once road access to each platform is provided which is easily achievable with the level crossing. The signalling works would need to be done regardless as the current station is just within the Level crossing block which would remain as is.

In terms of parking there is a very large yard behind the car dealer beside the former station which wouldn't take much to convert. It's also got better access to the N67 and M6.

agree with all this and they could even leave the old station too. I know we have not been told anything official yet, but I am somewhat concerned that the current station - utterly useless for non-car commuter - will be just upgraded and they will call it a commuter service. Just take a loot at it on Google Maps a station in the middle two potential commuter traffic sources and not a footpath even leading to either on of them.

IE 222 wrote: »

I would bet a lot of the park and ride users live in Roscam and Oranmore which defeats the purpose.

The purpose of the station is to take cars off the road going into the city. Given the number of cars parking there pre-pandemic, it is more than exceeding expectations and is a great success.