Promising Young Woman

bb1234567 · 04-04-2021 4:20pm

We weren't told subtly, we were told explicitly that she knew there was a risk of her death when she goes through with this seeing as she forwarded evidence to the solicitor in advance that would incriminate the men in case she didn't get to do it herself. All the last years of her life were focused on this revenge, she appeared to cared little about her own welfare by this point in her downward spiral or at least it certainly was of lesser priority than avenging Nna, death was a risk she was clearly more than willing to take.

_Whimsical_ · 04-04-2021 4:27pm

Another interesting element was the controversy surrounding a review in Variety where the main criticism of the film was that Carrie Mulligan was not hot enough to play the role, that it might have been more believable if she was a sexier actress.

Variety magazine’s first review of Promising Young Woman, a black comedy in which Mulligan plays Cassie, a woman who fools men into believing she is too drunk to give consent for sex, read: “Mulligan, a fine actress, seems a bit of an odd choice as this admittedly many-layered apparent femme fatale – Margot Robbie is a producer here, and one can (perhaps too easily) imagine the role might once have been intended for her.

It thoughtlessly missed the entire premise of the film but also hugely reinforced it's commentary on the treatment of women in society as sex playthings whose value lies in their ability to titillate,and not as rounded human beings.

Carrie answered it brilliantly thankfully.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jan/28/carey-mulligan-review-variety-promising-young-woman

_Whimsical_ · 04-04-2021 4:29pm

bb1234567 wrote: »

We weren't told subtly, we were told explicitly that she knew there was a risk of her death when she goes through with this seeing as she forwarded evidence to the solicitor in advance that would incriminate the men in case she didn't get to do it herself. All the last years of her life were focused on this revenge, she appeared to cared little about her own welfare by this point in her downward spiral or at least it certainly was of lesser priority than avenging Nna, death was a risk she was clearly more than willing to take.

Yup I agree, but I felt the moment she threw away the number plate illustrated for me that she actually had an expectation of coming out of it in one piece, felt it was at least 50/50. If she felt she'd be murdered she'd have left it so it might identify her whereabouts to anyone searching.

adrian522 · 05-04-2021 4:13pm

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Another interesting element was the controversy surrounding a review in Variety where the main criticism of the film was that Carrie Mulligan was not hot enough to play the role, that it might have been more believable if she was a sexier actress.

It thoughtlessly missed the entire premise of the film but also hugely reinforced it's commentary on the treatment of women in society as sex playthings whose value lies in their ability to titillate,and not as rounded human beings.

Carrie answered it brilliantly thankfully.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jan/28/carey-mulligan-review-variety-promising-young-woman

I thought she completely misread the review which didn't say anything about her not being hot enough...

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jan/28/carey-mulligan-dennis-harvey-variety-critic-sexism-accusations

homerun_homer · 06-04-2021 11:46am

bb1234567 wrote: »

We weren't told subtly, we were told explicitly that she knew there was a risk of her death when she goes through with this seeing as she forwarded evidence to the solicitor in advance that would incriminate the men in case she didn't get to do it herself. All the last years of her life were focused on this revenge, she appeared to cared little about her own welfare by this point in her downward spiral or at least it certainly was of lesser priority than avenging Nna, death was a risk she was clearly more than willing to take.

Just because something is explained after the fact doesn't mean something else earlier wasn't subtle. Let's imagine she didn't do it, then the ending would have felt extra tacked on, which it kind of was anyway when you look into the original intention by Emerald Fennell.

_Whimsical_ · 06-04-2021 4:29pm

[QUOTE=homerun_

homer;116803254]

Just because something is explained after the fact doesn't mean something else earlier wasn't subtle. Let's imagine she didn't do it, then the ending would have felt extra tacked on, which it kind of was anyway

when you look into the original intention by Emerald Fennell.

[/QUOTE]

What was the original intention?

homerun_homer · 06-04-2021 5:00pm

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

What was the original intention?

She wanted to cut to black when they burned her body and that be it. The studio asked her to update it and not end it so bleak, so she updated the script with the post-revenge bit afterwards.

bb1234567 · 06-04-2021 6:34pm

homerun_homer wrote: »

She wanted to cut to black when they burned her body and that be it. The studio asked her to update it and not end it so bleak, so she updated the script with the post-revenge bit afterwards.

I really would have hated that..would have been just..uncomfortable and felt cut short. Even though I agree the ending felt a bit tacked all the same, even a little bit corny, but at least it ended it on some note of positivity and made us feel confident in their protagonist's competence. Did the director say why it was that they wanted that original ending? What about it did she prefer to the alternative one which producers advocated for?

homerun_homer · 06-04-2021 9:02pm

bb1234567 wrote: »

I really would have hated that..would have been just..uncomfortable and felt cut short. Even though I agree the ending felt a bit tacked all the same, even a little bit corny, but at least it ended it on some note of positivity and made us feel confident in their protagonist's competence. Did the director say why it was that they wanted that original ending? What about it did she prefer to the alternative one which producers advocated for?

The first version of the script ended with Al and Joe burning Cassie’s body. In other words, bleak as hell! Fennell’s financiers balked, she said with a laugh: “They were, like, ‘Come on, we’re going to give you money to make this!’ But in my heart, I think that’s where it would have ended.”

Full article here.

_Whimsical_ · 07-04-2021 1:51pm

homerun_homer wrote: »

The first version of the script ended with Al and Joe burning Cassie’s body. In other words, bleak as hell! Fennell’s financiers balked, she said with a laugh: “They were, like, ‘Come on, we’re going to give you money to make this!’ But in my heart, I think that’s where it would have ended.”

Full article here.

I hate to say it but that's what would've happened in reality and while it would've been bleak as hell it would've more powerfully underlined the points the film went to pains to make.

The ending felt very much tacked on to appease the playmakers. The song and chirpy upbeatedness at the end that accompanied finding a young woman's body nearly had a resentful tone,like they were mocking their own ending.

cloudatlas · 07-04-2021 2:06pm

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I hate to say it but that's what would've happened in reality and while it would've been bleak as hell it would've more powerfully underlined the points the film went to pains to make.

The ending felt very much tacked on to appease the playmakers. The song and chirpy upbeatedness at the end that accompanied finding a young woman's body nearly had a resentful tone,like they were mocking their own ending.

Yeah I feel if it had been world cinema that ending would have been fine but since it was Hollywood and they favour neat endings that's what we got. The ending reminded me of Cruel Intentions to be honest which wasn't a bad ending but done before. They should have left it the way Emerald intended.

SimonTemplar · 07-04-2021 7:03pm

I loved the movie especially the cinematography (the colours really pop) and Mulligan's performance.

Like many, I am conflicted about the ending.

I don't mind sending the package to Alfred Molina's character but the perfectly timed text messages coinciding with the arrival of the police and the three dots indicating they are being typed is a little too cute and implausible. I'd actually prefer if Molina arrived with the police and handed Ryan a letter from Cassie.

homerun_homer · 08-04-2021 10:43am

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I loved the movie especially the cinematography (the colours really pop) and Mulligan's performance.

Like many, I am conflicted about the ending.
I don't mind sending the package to Alfred Molina's character but the perfectly timed text messages coinciding with the arrival of the police and the three dots indicating they are being typed is a little too cute and implausible. I'd actually prefer if Molina arrived with the police and handed Ryan a letter from Cassie.

I initially thought that Molina was sending the texts from her phone, which I was ok with. The idea of them being scheduled is a bit too much.

errlloyd · 08-04-2021 10:54am

Huge hat tip to this thread. I really enjoyed the movie and I don't think it was going to cross my radar without this (despite oscar nods etc, harder for me to be into film without cinema).

Few thoughts.

1: I thought the choice to cast famous nice guy actors all round was great.
2: It was notable that all the songs in the (absolutely banging) soundtrack were women vocalists.
3: Carey Mulligan is 5 years older than Bo. I presume a conversation was had about whether to "de-age" her digitally in order to make them being the same age more believable. Then I reckon they decided "f*** that, the inverse happens in movies all the time".

On the ending.

I think they should have left it at the body burning. It was a massive punch in the gut, but that's the point. The men always do win. If they had left that ending I think people would be talking about it much more.

As it happened it was a very Hollywood let-off. I don't think it was out of character for her to plan for her death, and I certainly hoped she would - so maybe we could have had a long fade to black, a few top-line credits, and then a mid-credit scene where the tape shows up at the solicitor's office. But the ending felt too much like a victory and detracted from the impact. That said, the actual scene where he smoothers her hits like a bus.

There was one post-burning scene that added value. The detective not taking the search for her seriously. Particularly the scene where he clearly visits Bo Burnham (the man who should be the number 1 suspect) as a box-ticking excercise and completely lets him off the hook.

I somewhat compare it to the ending of the Dutch language film "The Vanishing" versus it's English Language remake!

There have been a lot of Hollywood films with either an explicitly feminist narrative or simply a woman-dominated cast of late. That's not a bad thing and I suspect they are still outnumbered by films that do the opposite. But many of them have suffered, particularly some of the all Women remakes and overly preachy political pieces. This film stands way way out from most of them for me. It does attack a trend that still needs fixed. It brutally attacks it. And while doing so puts women led art and artists to the front as well. But does both of those things without taking away from a movie that is standalone excellent.

kerplun k · 08-04-2021 10:55am

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Another interesting element was the controversy surrounding a review in Variety where the main criticism of the film was that Carrie Mulligan was not hot enough to play the role, that it might have been more believable if she was a sexier actress.

It thoughtlessly missed the entire premise of the film but also hugely reinforced it's commentary on the treatment of women in society as sex playthings whose value lies in their ability to titillate,and not as rounded human beings.

Carrie answered it brilliantly thankfully.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jan/28/carey-mulligan-review-variety-promising-young-woman

Looking forward to seeing this.
As I haven’t seen it yet, I may be missing some context, but jeez, saying Carrie Mulligan isn’t hot enough for a role is like saying Brad Pitt wasn’t hot enough for Thelma & Louise. Mulligan is an absolute ride.

adrian522 · 08-04-2021 11:05am

kerplun k wrote: »

Looking forward to seeing this.
As I haven’t seen it yet, I may be missing some context, but jeez, saying Carrie Mulligan isn’t hot enough for a role is like saying Brad Pitt wasn’t hot enough for Thelma & Louise. Mulligan is an absolute ride.

Except he didn't say anything about her not being hot enough.

JP Liz V1 · 12-04-2021 3:26am

I just realised Emerald Fennell is Patsy from Call the Midwife

errlloyd · 12-04-2021 8:40am

This won a Bafta for outstanding British film yesterday.

Nomadland won the main gong

2smiggy · 15-04-2021 3:58pm

https://twitter.com/guardianfilm/status/1382635447742996485?s=20

Mad_maxx · 21-04-2021 12:49pm

watched this last night , as blunt as a poke in the eye tribute to the " me too " movement

ideologically loaded to the max and not one character came out of the whole nasty mess with an ounce of dignity

horrible piece of cynical trash

2smiggy · 21-04-2021 1:02pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

watched this last night , as blunt as a poke in the eye tribute to the " me too " movement

ideologically loaded to the max and not one character came out of the whole nasty mess with an ounce of dignity

horrible piece of cynical trash

hence the Guardian 5 star review !!

johnny_ultimate · 21-04-2021 2:40pm

Had a very mixed response to this one, alas.

First things first, though: Carey Mulligan is extraordinary in it. She just has an absolutely perfect grasp on what's happening, even when the rest of the film doesn't.

Alas, there are plenty of moments when the film gets awkwardly lost in what it's trying to do. There's absolutely a film out there that can be a cheeky topical satire, study of trauma and playful revenge film all at once. But the tone often feels wrong here, stumbling between different registers and moods without fully landing the jumps.

The last act is where it all kind of falls apart.

The film undermines its own points with an ending that delivers one last twist of the knife to unconvincing effect. When Cassandra gets her revenge from beyond the grave, it felt like a hollow victory. Two women are dead - the film bizarrely undercuts that tragedy by literally ending with a winky emoji. When Cassandra's killed, it's a shocking moment where it seems as if these men will once again avoid repercussions - that's a bold, provocative idea. But it resorts to a more clichéd revenge ending that feels lazy despite its odd setup.

It's a shame things don't come together, because there's lots to like. As said, Mulligan is astoundingly good here and deserving of all the accolades. Fennell is an obviously promising director, and the vibrant colour palette and magnificent costume work are a joy to behold. There's a lot of really good scenes, too:

the first Cassandra drops her act; the dance scene; the squirmy scene in the Dean's office.

It's a film I definitely admired for trying to speak bluntly about tricky subject matter - society's attitudes towards rape and consent will always be worthy of critique and examination. But PYW can't quite navigate the thorny maze it puts itself in - it addresses its subject matter head-on, but can't wrap that into a coherent narrative. A valiant effort that takes some big swings, but a rather unsatisfactory film in the end.

santana75 · 21-04-2021 6:10pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

watched this last night , as blunt as a poke in the eye tribute to the " me too " movement

ideologically loaded to the max and not one character came out of the whole nasty mess with an ounce of dignity

horrible piece of cynical trash

I'd agree with that. There's something contrived and forced about the whole thing. I read the variety review in question and that guy said nothing wrong whatsoever. I feel carey mulligan was just offended he spoke the truth.

Ash.J.Williams · 21-04-2021 6:27pm

I knew this would happen

It’s a good movie , it’s not the necronomicon of woke

MrStuffins · 21-04-2021 9:00pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I knew this would happen

It’s a good movie , it’s not the necronomicon of woke

I expected the movie to be a "Me Too" frying pan to the face.

It really isn't. I likelihood of someone who says it is being the type of person that the movie describes is quite high I'd imagine.

ShagNastii · 21-04-2021 10:51pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

I expected the movie to be a "Me Too" frying pan to the face.

It really isn't. I likelihood of someone who says it is being the type of person that the movie describes is quite high I'd imagine.

100%. I went in with eyes set to roll. The first act with the guys overtly debating in the bar about who takes her home was a bit OTT. Then your man had an American flag painting in his sitting room. I was dreading the worst.

After that the movies got serious substance. Was really smart and compelling. Tackled the “me too” thing in a way that would make the penny drop. The story grabbed me.

Mulligan was rock solid and such a joy to watch. Would be deserving of an Oscar if she lands it.

The DayDream · 21-04-2021 10:55pm

Glad to hear what is beong said above, I think Carey Mulligan is amazing, my favorite actress by far working today but I really was disappointed thinking this film was gonna be as was suggested 'a me too frying pan to the face' which i don't really have interest in any more than i need a film telling me paedophilia is bad

flasher0030 · 22-04-2021 8:55am

The DayDream wrote: »

Glad to hear what is beong said above, I think Carey Mulligan is amazing, my favorite actress by far working today but I really was disappointed thinking this film was gonna be as was suggested 'a me too frying pan to the face' which i don't really have interest in any more than i need a film telling me paedophilia is bad

Why don't you watch it?

johnny_ultimate · 22-04-2021 9:04am

I didn't particuarly like the film, but people should still watch it and make up their own mind - it's definitely an interesting watch. Any suggestion it is some sort of 'MeToo propaganda' is utter nonsense as far as I'm concerned.

Outkast_IRE · 22-04-2021 9:13am

Carey Mulligan, great performance.

As for the film, enjoyable if you dont take it too seriously. But i think its just a bit too in your face . Not one person in the entire movie comes out looking good in it
, its all a bit cliched and overall isnt particularly strong in its development or even the ending.

Its a 7/10 for me . A movie which is enjoyable if you can disconnect it from the gender politics its average. ( i would say if a movie was made which universally showed every single female in it to be a villian it would get torrents of abuse)

Promising Young Woman

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