What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Wolf359f · 03-04-2021 01:37PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

UK avoiding fourth wave for now unlike most of europe.

They are the envy of europe. The magic is happening.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

I'd consider what Europe is going through as a third not fourth wave.

03-04-2021 01:39PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

There were in lockdown from December until April, don't think anyone in Europe was in lockdown over the same time frame apart from us. That's the main reason their numbers are currently so low, the vaccines will of course help from now on.

Why is northern ireland cases lower than republics.

Prevalence about 2/3s of republics.

Positivity less than 1% as apposed to 3% in republic.

Lockdowns are similar in both jurisdications, but theirs I think is slightly less than republics.

They have no 5K limit for example and are allowed to meet people outdoors.

And you dont think vaccination is main reason :pac::pac::pac:

Call me Al · 03-04-2021 01:40PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'd consider what Europe is going through as a third not fourth wave.

Precisely.
They didn't have the winter cases.

We here in Ireland are the ones facing the prospect of a 4th wave.

03-04-2021 01:44PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'd consider what Europe is going through as a third not fourth wave.

I think that could come across as quibbling over semantics.

They are in a fantastic place compared to rest of europe.

sameoldname · 03-04-2021 01:47PM

Bambi wrote: »

Indeed, and all while 14,000 people flew into this country without let nor hinderance, apparently putting a 5 km leash for the taxpayer is fine but putting some restrictions on arrivals isn't.

So why were you complaining about the EU vaccine passport? Surely you should welcome it?

03-04-2021 01:49PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Jesus, untwist those knickers. Go get some sun.

Lol more applicable to yourself really

Tyrone212 · 03-04-2021 01:53PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why is northern ireland cases lower than republics.

Prevalence about 2/3s of republics.

Positivity less than 1% as apposed to 3% in republic.

Lockdowns are similar in both jurisdications, but theirs I think is slightly less than republics.

They have no 5K limit for example and are allowed to meet people outdoors.

And you dont think vaccination is main reason :pac::pac::pac:

You don't understand what I said re Europe vs UK current situation. They were in lockdown for 3 and half months and just starting to reopen, that drove their numbers way down, the vaccines will help keep it down now and of course has helped already.

My original point was that no European country has been locked down over the last 3.5 months so their cases are inevitably higher.

And northern ireland never tested enough. They had a positivity rate of over 20 25% for months.

03-04-2021 02:03PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

You don't understand what I said re Europe vs UK current situation. They were in lockdown for 3 and half months and just starting to reopen, that drove their numbers way down, the vaccines will help keep it down now and of course has helped already.

My original point was that no European country has been locked down over the last 3.5 months so their cases are inevitably higher.

And northern ireland never tested enough. They had a positivity rate of over 20 25% for months.

My original point was that no European country has been locked down over the last 3.5 months so their cases are inevitably higher - Republic of Ireland has with a stricter lockdown than theirs, yet they have lower prevalence than republics.

And northern ireland never tested enough. They had a positivity rate of over 20 25% for months - Positivity doesnt lie. They have positivity rates lower than 1% at present, which means at this point in the pandemic they are not missing too many.

Wolf359f · 03-04-2021 02:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

My original point was that no European country has been locked down over the last 3.5 months so their cases are inevitably higher - Republic of Ireland has with a stricter lockdown than theirs, yet they have lower prevalence than republics.

And northern ireland never tested enough. They had a positivity rate of over 20 25% for months - Positivity doesnt lie. They have positivity rates lower than 1% at present, which means at this point in the pandemic they are not missing too many.

Where did you see that?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coronavirus-northern-ireland-one-further-death-and-107-new-cases-amid-appeals-to-stay-safe-over-easter-40268426.html

There are 107 new cases from tests on 2,048 individuals.

That's 5.2% positivity rate?

Pablo Escobar · 03-04-2021 03:08PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Where did you see that?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coronavirus-northern-ireland-one-further-death-and-107-new-cases-amid-appeals-to-stay-safe-over-easter-40268426.html

That's 5.2% positivity rate?

I think we’re allowed to make up stats to back up our opinions these days.

On a serious note, that’s a terrible level of testing. I’d imagine their overall rate is actually a bit lower than that in reality, but it also means their real case numbers are a lot higher than stated.

03-04-2021 03:42PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Where did you see that?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coronavirus-northern-ireland-one-further-death-and-107-new-cases-amid-appeals-to-stay-safe-over-easter-40268426.html

That's 5.2% positivity rate?

12,046 tests according to the government site. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing?areaType=nation&areaName=Northern%20Ireland

Wolf359f · 03-04-2021 03:55PM

Aegir wrote: »

12,046 tests according to the government site. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing?areaType=nation&areaName=Northern%20Ireland

Cheers, looks like the telegraph only report pillar 1 tests, which is a little strange. Guess that's why NI always reported a higher positivity rate (worryingly high) they were only reporting pillar 1 tests.

03-04-2021 07:01PM

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

I think we’re allowed to make up stats to back up our opinions these days.

On a serious note, that’s a terrible level of testing. I’d imagine their overall rate is actually a bit lower than that in reality, but it also means their real case numbers are a lot higher than stated.

Aegir wrote: »

12,046 tests according to the government site. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing?areaType=nation&areaName=Northern%20Ireland

:pac::pac::pac: made up nothing as seen above, under 1% positivity.

Sure its clear for all to see, north of ireland has much better control than republic at this point in pandemic between cases, positivity, hospital admissions, vaccinations and deaths.

This is a good thing.

If Republic was better off in pandemic currently than the North with 15% vaccinations as opposed to their over 50% we would never be out of this.

Roll on vaccinations...

We'll all get there eventually.

robinph · 03-04-2021 07:48PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

You don't understand what I said re Europe vs UK current situation. They were in lockdown for 3 and half months and just starting to reopen, that drove their numbers way down, the vaccines will help keep it down now and of course has helped already.

My original point was that no European country has been locked down over the last 3.5 months so their cases are inevitably higher.

And northern ireland never tested enough. They had a positivity rate of over 20 25% for months.

The reduction in cases and deaths in the UK when broken down by age group clearly shows that the vaccines have had a massive effect since early February with the older age groups case numbers dropping at a far faster rate.

The lockdown helps and was absolutely needed, quite why the rest of Europe hasn't done anything much until this week and then are just claiming that easter weekend is a lockdown when everything would be shut anyway is another matter. The

Danzy · 03-04-2021 08:28PM

The approach in Europe is hard to figure out.

April and May could be very hard months on the continent.

Compliance with restrictions and lockdowns is weakening, according to polls and news reports.

03-04-2021 08:38PM

Danzy wrote: »

The approach in Europe is hard to figure out.

April and May could be very hard months on the continent.

Compliance with restrictions and lockdowns is weakening, according to polls and news reports.

It really is mind boggling.

They fight with astra zeneca over efficacy and authorisation and then fight with same company over supplies.

Dont bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind.

If you want something in life be nice to the people that can give you this.

Its basic commonsense.

Roger_007 · 03-04-2021 09:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It really is mind boggling.

They fight with astra zeneca over efficacy and authorisation and then fight with same company over supplies.

Dont bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind.

If you want something in life be nice to the people that can give you this.

Its basic commonsense.

The Seminole Indians in Florida had a saying which went: “Do not insult the alligator’s mother before you cross the river”.

plodder · 03-04-2021 09:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It really is mind boggling.

They fight with astra zeneca over efficacy and authorisation and then fight with same company over supplies.

Dont bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind.

If you want something in life be nice to the people that can give you this.

Its basic commonsense.

We want vaccines and we don't care whether they work or not?

It's possible to fight with the supplier over levels of supply and at the same time question whether what is being delivered is fit for purpose.

03-04-2021 10:05PM

plodder wrote: »

We want vaccines and we don't care whether they work or not?

It's possible to fight with the supplier over levels of supply and at the same time question whether what is being delivered is fit for purpose.

UK/Northern ireland proves they work.

Easy to say in hindsight, but europe fought and fought with astra over authorisation, efficacy and safety. In the meantime the UK quietly authorised it without much fuss and praised the company what a great product it was.

Astra then gave europe less and UK more...

Hancock praised astra indian factory when there was shortfalls announced to UK.

Total common sense behaviour.

Everyone in business likes to work with happy satisfied customers and trys to avoid or get rid of the difficult ones.

UK prevelance probably close to the lowest in europe now and opening pubs in around a week with over 50% of population vaccinated. Rest of europes pubs are closed or closing soon.

Who was right and who was wrong in the end?

UK read the room better than europe.

fly_agaric · 03-04-2021 10:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It really is mind boggling.

They fight with astra zeneca over efficacy and authorisation and then fight with same company over supplies.

There's been a lot of different stuff going on though.
There is no all encompassing European "they" who collectively have it in for AstraZeneca and their vaccine.

Deleted User wrote: »

Dont bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind.

If you want something in life be nice to the people that can give you this.

Its basic commonsense.

The "hand" didn't provide, that is the biggest problem.
They can't do it, and will never be able to IMO.
Would have been far, far better for everyone if company had said last summer/autumn this was probably too big a job or they had other priorities.
Being very nice and accomodating to the company over their failure + the general contempt they've shown the EU/member states IMO sends messages that may be counterproductive as regards future dealings with such companies.

murphaph · 03-04-2021 10:55PM

robinph wrote: »

The reduction in cases and deaths in the UK when broken down by age group clearly shows that the vaccines have had a massive effect since early February with the older age groups case numbers dropping at a far faster rate.

The lockdown helps and was absolutely needed, quite why the rest of Europe hasn't done anything much until this week and then are just claiming that easter weekend is a lockdown when everything would be shut anyway is another matter. The

What are you talking about with "hasn't done anything much"? I was home schooling my son since before Xmas until the start of March and then he only went back a week on week off (50% classroom capacity, masks worn at all times). During the same period only essential shops were open. Around the start of March you could book appointments to go to IKEA or clothes shops. Work from home still in force for anyone that could. Meeting other families etc. was restricted the whole time. That's a lockdown to me. We've hardly seen anyone since I don't know when. Last saw my mother in August. We're in Germany.

robinph · 03-04-2021 11:16PM

murphaph wrote: »

What are you talking about with "hasn't done anything much"? I was home schooling my son since before Xmas until the start of March and then he only went back a week on week off (50% classroom capacity, masks worn at all times). During the same period only essential shops were open. Around the start of March you could book appointments to go to IKEA or clothes shops. Work from home still in force for anyone that could. Meeting other families etc. was restricted the whole time. That's a lockdown to me. We've hardly seen anyone since I don't know when. Last saw my mother in August. We're in Germany.

Is that similar across the rest of Europe?

The impression given by headlines this weekend regarding the likes of Italy and their three day long lockdown where everything will be shut suggest they haven't had much in effect for a while... And shutting everything down for three days over easter weekend isn't a lockdown. That's just Easter weekend.

Strazdas · 03-04-2021 11:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

UK/Northern ireland proves they work.

Easy to say in hindsight, but europe fought and fought with astra over authorisation, efficacy and safety. In the meantime the UK quietly authorised it without much fuss and praised the company what a great product it was.

Astra then gave europe less and UK more...

Hancock praised astra indian factory when there was shortfalls announced to UK.

Total common sense behaviour.

Everyone in business likes to work with happy satisfied customers and trys to avoid or get rid of the difficult ones.

UK prevelance probably close to the lowest in europe now and opening pubs in around a week with over 50% of population vaccinated. Rest of europes pubs are closed or closing soon.

Who was right and who was wrong in the end?

UK read the room better than europe.

AstraZeneca are the supplier and the EU are the customer. The EU signed a contract in good faith and paid up front for the vaccines. AZ failed to supply the vaccines on time or in sufficient quantities. How on earth does that make the EU the equivalent of the "the customer from hell"? AZ are the ones who completely messed up the order.

gozunda · 04-04-2021 12:09AM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

There were in lockdown from December until April, don't think anyone in Europe was in lockdown over the same time frame apart from us. That's the main reason their numbers are currently so low, the vaccines will of course help from now on.

Germany was also in lockdown over the same period and is now extending its restrictions due to a rise in new case numbers ..

04-04-2021 01:18AM

Strazdas wrote: »

AstraZeneca are the supplier and the EU are the customer. The EU signed a contract in good faith and paid up front for the vaccines. AZ failed to supply the vaccines on time or in sufficient quantities. How on earth does that make the EU the equivalent of the "the customer from hell"? AZ are the ones who completely messed up the order.

Supply and demand.

When supply is weak kiss suppliers ass.Dont tell them their product is suspect when looking as much of their product as you can possibly get your hands on.

UK contracts signed many months before EUs.

In business you have to know how strong your hand is.

Who needs who more.

tbh at this moment in time europe need astra more than astra needs europe. Europe appears beuracratic, indecisive and framgments with regards vaccine policy. More concerned at cost than getting jabs into arms.

Its a sellers market.

Demand far out strips supply.

Wolf359f · 04-04-2021 01:30AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Supply and demand.

When supply is weak kiss suppliers ass.Dont tell them their product is suspect when looking as much of their product as you can possibly get your hands on.

UK contracts signed many months before EUs.

In business you have to know how strong your hand is.

Who needs who more.

tbh at this moment in time europe need astra more than astra needs europe.

So you actually believe if the EU kissed AZ's ass, they could magically conjure up 90 mil doses (that's how much they are behind on their EU order)

But at the same time, the vaccine which was held up as a game changer for the world, they did't have any other clients kissing their ass that they gave those 90 mil doses to?

Before it was approved, this vaccine was supposed to be a game changer for the world, they failed, it's as simple as that. Even with Operation Warp speed, they only managed to produce about 25% of what Pfizer and Moderna have produced in the US.

Every country in the world want's vaccines, Pfizer has been leading. They know when demand is high they can sell. AZ are fumbling around in the dark. When they finally get their house in order it will be too late.

The UK signed after the EU signed. Why the opposite is still pedaled about as fact is beyond me.

NeuralNetwork · 04-04-2021 02:24AM

This is how online misinformation spreads. You say “the U.K. signed its contracts many months before the EU” because it’s parroted from somewhere else and all of a sudden this entirely inaccurate talking point becomes an “alternative fact.”

Then it gets parroted by someone on a news programme somewhere or an article in a paper and that’s then quoted as a source, and before you know where you’ve a web of lies and people believing and repeating them and they become impossible to challenge.

That’s how 2020s misinformation works. Keep throwing it and enough of it will stick.

Strazdas · 04-04-2021 03:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Supply and demand.

When supply is weak kiss suppliers ass.Dont tell them their product is suspect when looking as much of their product as you can possibly get your hands on.

UK contracts signed many months before EUs.

In business you have to know how strong your hand is.

Who needs who more.

tbh at this moment in time europe need astra more than astra needs europe. Europe appears beuracratic, indecisive and framgments with regards vaccine policy. More concerned at cost than getting jabs into arms.

Its a sellers market.

Demand far out strips supply.

You're speaking as if AstraZeneca are a hugely trusted and respected company and the EU are a bunch of shysters.

If anything, it's the other way around. AZ have no experience of manufacturing vaccines and have messed up the supplies. Also, the only place they seem popular as a company is among readers of the Daily Express and Daily Telegraph.

Enzokk · 04-04-2021 06:51AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Astra then gave europe less and UK more...

So you are saying it was the companies decision not to give the EU more vaccines, interesting.

Deleted User wrote: »

Supply and demand.

When supply is weak kiss suppliers ass.Dont tell them their product is suspect when looking as much of their product as you can possibly get your hands on.

UK contracts signed many months before EUs.

In business you have to know how strong your hand is.

Who needs who more.

tbh at this moment in time europe need astra more than astra needs europe. Europe appears beuracratic, indecisive and framgments with regards vaccine policy. More concerned at cost than getting jabs into arms.

Its a sellers market.

Demand far out strips supply.

You are spouting some interesting theories. Wish you could back up that the UK signed their contract before the EU did. Let me not help you out here,

AstraZeneca CEO Pascal Soriot made the argument that the U.K. had better vaccine supply because the U.K. signed an agreement for vaccines months earlier than the EU. Formally, this isn’t true: The U.K. contract was signed on August 28, while the EU’s was signed a day earlier on August 27.

How the UK gained an edge with AstraZeneca’s vaccine commitments

Seems like the nonsense you posted above about how the great relationship AZ has with the UK comes down to this, in their contract if AZ gives vaccines to the EU that means the UK target is missed then there is punishment the UK could levy on the company. The EU contract states they will withhold payment.

So which one will the company favour? They signed the EU contract that said there is no other contracts that will impede this contract and then signed the UK contract that voided the EU contract. But it was the EU being nasty to AZ that is the problem here, not the company signing contracts it knows it cannot get close to fulfilling.

And to be honest, supply isn't going to be weak for long for the EU. We can do without the AZ vaccine, but it will take some time and people are impatient to get their lives back, so they are hoping for any small slither of hope. Even if that hope is from a vaccine that seems dangerous to certain people and that has been rebuked by the FDA for shoddy numbers. That is AZ, they are not a saviour, they seem like chancers who favoured the UK over the EU instead of getting both parties together to get a compromise. Maybe it is better they have been this incompetent, imagine how many more deaths due to clots there could have been had they kept their deliveries up.

suicide_circus · 04-04-2021 07:12AM

As a citizen, my point of contact for a vaccine is the state. My "contract" is with the state/the EU.

If I order a product from a retailer and the retailer's supplier fails to deliver, my argument is with the retailer, not the supplier.

It is the responsibility of the government and the EU to secure the vaccines for citizens by having contingency plans and additional capacity in place in case to cover unforseen events like if a supplier fails to deliver.

Politicians are always quick to obfuscate but i didn't vote for AZ.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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