What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Tippbhoy1 · 01-04-2021 07:45PM

Strazdas wrote: »

But aren't they framing the entire AstraZeneca debate and UK vs EU vaccines thing? I keep hearing that we shouldn't pay any attention to what the right wing press are saying, but they seem to have created the narrative of the shambolic EU rollout and the EU having it in for AZ (through blatant jingoism and propaganda and a lot of lies and distortions).

Of course they are. When every other defence of the uk media doesn’t work on here, it will be swept under the carpet with expressions like “no one reads those papers anyway”, followed within the hour with links on another thread to an article on said papers for another rabbit hole argument. You couldn’t make this up.

sameoldname · 01-04-2021 08:19PM

Aegir wrote: »

This is all in your head.

This article is from the BBC. It's a pure puff piece that makes out AZ to be a victim of politics rather than actually point out the valid concerns that the EU and US have with their testing and production competence.

10 years ago you would have never seen the BBC publish something like that outside of the sports section.

Sam Russell · 01-04-2021 09:31PM

sameoldname wrote: »

This article is from the BBC. It's a pure puff piece that makes out AZ to be a victim of politics rather than actually point out the valid concerns that the EU and US have with their testing and production competence.

10 years ago you would have never seen the BBC publish something like that outside of the sports section.

Well, I think the Royal Correspondent might pen such a piece, but you are right.

Strazdas · 01-04-2021 09:33PM

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

Of course they are. When every other defence of the uk media doesn’t work on here, it will be swept under the carpet with expressions like “no one reads those papers anyway”, followed within the hour with links on another thread to an article on said papers for another rabbit hole argument. You couldn’t make this up.

They are totally driving the vaccines narrative from what I can see and have the bulk of the English population on board.

That journalist guy demonstrated in his thread how The Economist's front page was full of outright lies and distortions about the EU, so none of this is even happening by accident or omission.

Melanchthon · 01-04-2021 10:39PM

Strazdas wrote: »

They are totally driving the vaccines narrative from what I can see and have the bulk of the English population on board.

That journalist guy demonstrated in his thread how The Economist's front page was full of outright lies and distortions about the EU, so none of this is even happening by accident or omission.

Was that the guy that didn't know which vaccine company Trump was trying to buy and thought it was BioNTech?

Tyrone212 · 02-04-2021 01:40AM

The UK has received 30 reports of the rare blood clotting events that have been linked to the Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine in recent weeks and have caused precautionary restrictions to be placed on its use in many European countries.

On Thursday evening, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency released information about 25 new cases of severe and very rare blood clotting events, on top of five it had reported earlier this month.

The MHRA also clarified that it had not seen any of the same reactions in individuals that had received the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine.

There has been growing concern about links between the AstraZeneca jab and a very specific and rare type of blood clotting event. The news that a growing number of them have been identified in the UK is likely to call into question the view that this is purely a phenomenon being seen in mainland Europe.

Reports of similar incidents have caused France, Sweden, Finland, Canada and most recently Germany to recommend that younger people, who are much more likely to be affected by the condition, avoid the shot. In Norway and Denmark, the vaccine is still suspended.

The main condition causing alarm is called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST), when blood forms clots in the veins that run from the brain, a potentially fatal complication.

In the cases of concern, this has been combined with an issue called thrombocytopenia where a patient also presents abnormally low levels of platelets, resulting in heavy bleeding.

In Norway, health officials have reported at least six such cases among 120,000 recipients of the jab, four of whom died. In Germany, 31 cases have been reported after 2.7m vaccinations, including 29 women aged between 20 and 63, and two men aged 36 and 57. Nine of them have died.

https://amp.ft.com/content/2e52a5b0-29b9-4c7e-8cfb-97bf8edea865?__twitter_impression=true

Skygord · 02-04-2021 07:58AM

UK clotting events also reported on RTE website today...

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0402/1207578-britain-vaccine-clots/

British regulators said they have identified 30 cases of rare blood clot events after the use of the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine - from a total of 18.1 million doses.

This is 25 more than previously reported.

The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency said it had received no such reports of clotting events following use of the vaccine made by Pfizer-BioNTech.

The health officials said they still believe the benefits of the vaccine in the prevention of Covid-19 far outweigh any possible risk of blood clots.

Some European countries have restricted access to the AstraZeneca vaccine over reports of blood clotting, but the EU's drug regulating agency said earlier this week it had found no specific risk factors connecting the jab to the clots.

However, the European Medicines Agency added: "A causal link with the vaccine is not proven, but is possible and further analysis is continuing."

On 18 March, the UK medicines regulator said that there had been five cases of a rare brain blood clot among 11 million administered shots.

But the MHRA has now revised this and put the count at 22 reports of cerebralvenous sinus thrombosis, an extremely rare brain clotting ailment.

It also cited eight reports of other clotting events associated with low blood platelets out of a total of 18.1 million doses given.

Meanwhile Australia is investigating whether a blood clotting disorder case recorded today is related to the AstraZeneca vaccine, Deputy Chief Medical Officer Professor Michael Kidd said.

Australian media reported that a 44-year-old man was admitted to a Melbourne hospital with possible clotting days after receiving the vaccine.

"Investigators have not at this time confirmed a causal link with the Covid-19 AstraZeneca vaccine, but investigations are ongoing," Dr Kidd told a televised briefing.

Australia's Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), the medicine and therapeutic regulatory agency, has said previously that AstraZeneca vaccine was not associated with an increase in the overall risk of blood clots.

Professor Joe Harbison, Clinical Lead on the Irish National Audit of Stroke, told RTÉ's Morning Ireland last month that the risks of getting a blood clot from Covid-19 were far higher compared to any potential risk from having a vaccine.

"Around 1% to 2% of people hospitalised with coronavirus will suffer a stroke as a result of the disease." He said there were about 30 strokes related to Covid during the first wave of the pandemic in Ireland.

murphaph · 02-04-2021 08:08AM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, I think the Royal Correspondent might pen such a piece, but you are right.

Yep and a good 10 hours after the FT broke the MHRA announcement the BBC still hasn't reported on these blood clots in the UK. They are waiting for the green light from Downing Street I suppose.

There's nothing to fact check. It was an MHRA announcement. Report it already.

Edit: If they have reported on it, it's buried in the website somewhere. It's not on the "Daily coronavirus update page".

drunkmonkey · 02-04-2021 08:31AM

Have we found even 1 case yet?

is_that_so · 02-04-2021 08:33AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Have we found even 1 case yet?

The occurrence is less than 1 in 1 million and we're nowhere near that ball park for AZ.

Red Silurian · 02-04-2021 08:36AM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

i literally wrote yesterday that i wouldnt be surprised if UK are covering up/downlplaying the clotting issues with compliant media

and today we have this https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-uk-finds-30-blood-clot-cases-after-astrazeneca-jab/a-57083963

30 cases over 11 million doses... Hardly seems concerning

02-04-2021 08:51AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

30 cases over 11 million doses... Hardly seems concerning

Going by the German data, a woman aged 20-63 has a 1 in 61,000 chance of developing this disorder. For men of the same age it's about 1 in 450,000 and for older people there appears to be no risk.

1 in 61,000 may be relatively rare, but if we vaccinated 1.2 million women of that age group with AZ, we could expect about 20 cases of this clotting disorder. That outcome can be avoided when there are other vaccines available that do not carry this risk.

I don't understand what the issue is in giving AZ to the groups at low risk, and giving younger women Pfizer, Moderna and J&J.

Dr. Em · 02-04-2021 08:54AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

30 cases over 11 million doses... Hardly seems concerning

The EMA has said that the benefits outweigh the risks and it is clear that they do. But the question should also be: can these side effects be prevented? Because if they can be, through early recognition, treatment, or identification of at-risk groups, that would be all the better.

volchitsa · 02-04-2021 08:55AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

30 cases over 11 million doses... Hardly seems concerning

Assuming there is a link, it would be useful to be able to identify which groups are most at risk, and exclude them from getting the vaccine. Better than just writing them off as "unconcerning" because there aren't very many. Seems a bit harsh on those who have died. It's 100% for those people after all.

Dr. Em · 02-04-2021 08:59AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Have we found even 1 case yet?

The HSE is relying on self-reporting of side effects, which means there will be a reporting time lag.
Norway and Denmark have a fully online record of patient history where every treatment is logged and it is easily searchable by the regulator. I don't know what system Germany has, but the reporting system effects the collection of any data.

Dave0301 · 02-04-2021 09:18AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

30 cases over 11 million doses... Hardly seems concerning

I would say the families of the healthy people that have had AstraZenca and subsequently died would be fairly concerned about it.

1 in 61000 is rare...but there are other vaccines available and if the data shows you are better off taking one of them instead, then yes people should be concerned and question it.

02-04-2021 09:22AM

If you asked people in 2019 which country's vaccine would have AstraZenica's colourful history, everyone would say Russia.

Wolf359f · 02-04-2021 10:07AM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

You’re missing the problem the issue is not a very rare but potentially very deadly side effect in section of population that’s likely not to die due to Covid

The issue is that it wasn’t seen in trials, and when reports started coming in instead of investigating it was downplayed and what seems to be covered up for political reasons.

Such odds would translate to 15 deaths in Ireland if all were vaccinated with AZ, now the case could be made that it be smaller number than could die from Covid

But another’s case could be made that other vaccines don’t have this issue, and AZ should be given to different sections of population to reduce risk

In uk it might be ok to sweep 70,000 extra needless deaths under carpet and just shrug, but I think we are better than that here.

It's exactly the issue Norway face. Under 55's have seen 2 covid deaths, they want to vaccinate the young population who are extremely less at risk of dying by covid. So far they have seen 4 or 5 deaths attributed to the AZ vaccine in the u55. So it's a hard sell to the young population. It's all risk analysis. Norway and a handful of countries who kept deaths low will have this issue. Most countries won't and will keep using it.

02-04-2021 10:15AM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Or maybe the Russians just better at covering up than Brits or Sputnik has not been injected into as many arms yet.

Time will tell.

Could be the second possibility, it's hard to find numbers but it seems like only 2-3 million have been vaccinated in Russia so far, despite them being one of the first to start

robinph · 02-04-2021 10:20AM

Red Silurian wrote: »

30 cases over 11 million doses... Hardly seems concerning

It's out of 18 million doses. The 11 million doses was when they had found the previous 5 cases.

bureau2009 · 02-04-2021 10:21AM

If you get a Covid-19 vaccine here and subsequently experience moderate to severe side effects how do you report this? How is this information and feedback captured?

average_runner · 02-04-2021 10:32AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you asked people in 2019 which country's vaccine would have AstraZenica's colourful history, everyone would say Russia.

Colourful history is a bit harsh

Charles Babbage · 02-04-2021 10:55AM

While the Times of London has this UK news on its website, the Telegraph do not, it just has its previous headline about the UK having paid for the EU factory!

is_that_so · 02-04-2021 10:59AM

average_runner wrote: »

Colourful history is a bit harsh

Well, it's been quite a tale of missteps right from the data reporting onwards and two months after EMA approval they still don't look like hitting any EU delivery targets.

Wolf359f · 02-04-2021 11:17AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Well, it's been quite a tale of missteps right from the data reporting onwards and two months after EMA approval they still don't look like hitting any EU delivery targets.

I believe they finally hit the December delivery target of 30mil...... only 3 months late! I can't see them ever been able to keep any targets they set.

02-04-2021 11:20AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

While the Times of London has this UK news on its website, the Telegraph do not, it just has its previous headline about the UK having paid for the EU factory!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/02/uk-regulator-identifies-30-cases-blood-clot-events-use-astrazeneca/

is_that_so · 02-04-2021 11:27AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

I believe they finally hit the December delivery target of 30mil...... only 3 months late! I can't see them ever been able to keep any targets they set.

Despite the mess of it, one would still like to see them come up to the plate eventually. It would be good for everyone as they are still expected to be the biggest individual supplier.

josip · 02-04-2021 11:28AM

average_runner wrote: »

Colourful history is a bit harsh

It has been a veritable kaleidoscope with them in the last 3 months.

murphaph · 02-04-2021 11:35AM

robinph wrote: »

It's out of 18 million doses. The 11 million doses was when they had found the previous 5 cases.

If true the figure should be noteworthy.

It means they found a 11000000:5 (1 in 2.2million) chance in the older cohort (they are vaccinating by age in the UK) and then the chance reduced to 7000000:25 (1 in 280k) as they started vaccinating people in their 50s.

If the trend continues I see no reason why they won't be hitting the rates experienced in Germany.

Will they just plough ahead though or try to get an alternative mRNA vaccine for younger people?

If the odds end up at 1 in 20k like in Norway, who is going to let their kids be injected with that? (assuming children are affected to the same or worse extent as young adults)

02-04-2021 11:38AM

bureau2009 wrote: »

If you get a Covid-19 vaccine here and subsequently experience moderate to severe side effects how do you report this? How is this information and feedback captured?

https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/astrazeneca/side-effects.html

There are 2 ways you can report a suspected adverse reaction to a COVID-19 vaccine:

through the HPRA's online adverse reaction report form
by emailing or posting this adverse reaction report form to the HPRA (DOCX, 3 pages, 115KB)

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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