What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

murphaph · 26-03-2021 08:41PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

The vaccine that was the world's way out of this pandemic, left in the hands of amateurs!
What could possibly go wrong?

It's tragic really.

Pete_Cavan · 26-03-2021 08:44PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Who should they have gone with?
Sanofi who failed to deliver their own vaccine despite being one of the top 3 vaccine companies pre covid?
A US company who could have fallen foul of export bans?

How could vaccines made outside the EU be subject to a US export ban if not being exported from the US? Look at Pfizer.

The best thing would have been for the vaccine to have been licensed to both AZ and Merck, but alas AZ got it exclusively and it has been one disaster after another since then.

murphaph · 26-03-2021 08:46PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Should have been left to the pros like GSM or Sanofi... oh wait.

I guess you mean GSK but anyway yeah, these established vaccine makers would have been a far safer pair of hands to handle the actual production phase. AZ has no experience in vaccines.

Dyr · 26-03-2021 08:48PM

murphaph wrote: »

We are a European Union. That has to mean something and if countries go off on solo runs during these critical events, then the rest of the union can legitimately ask if they are committed to the union or not. I don't care about solo runs by the Dictator or the Maltese as they weren't buying anything we had ordered.

It's a price we pay for solidarity

I'd imagine you were furious when the Germans went on a solo run and struck deals with with vaccine companies outside of the EUs scheme?

Should we question Germanys commitment to the union? The EU were fine with those little side deals but then the EU has always had been willing to make exceptions for Germany.

We're paying a price alright but its not for solidarity.

murphaph · 26-03-2021 08:49PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Who should they have gone with?
Sanofi who failed to deliver their own vaccine despite being one of the top 3 vaccine companies pre covid?
A US company who could have fallen foul of export bans?

Pfizer is a US company too and it didn't do Biontech any harm. Merck presumably have worldwide manufacturing capabilities. The Tories wanted AZ because they knew they could do a grubby deal with them.

Wolf359f · 26-03-2021 08:50PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Should have been left to the pros like GSM or Sanofi... oh wait.

AZ obviously have no vaccine experience, so any company with a worldwide production chain with vaccines would have been a better bet.
Sanofi's candidate may have failed, that doesn't mean they don't know how to mass produce a vacfine.
It's a silly dig at Sanofi, AZ didn't create the vaccine, they are just trying to manufacturer it.

odyssey06 · 26-03-2021 08:50PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

How could vaccines made outside the EU be subject to a US export ban if not being exported from the US? Look at Pfizer.

The best thing would have been for the vaccine to have been licensed to both AZ and Merck, but alas AZ got it exclusively and it has been one disaster after another since then.

Recent reports suggest the Oxford team, led by Prof Sarah Gilbert, were aware of the threat of so-called “vaccine nationalism” as far back as January last year and that this had a major impact on their choice of pharmaceutical partner to manufacture the vaccine. In particular, the Oxford team appears to have been wary of partnering with an American company due to the unpredictability of Trump and his “America First” policy.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/university-know-how-the-secret-sauce-for-vaccine-success-1.4477006

odyssey06 · 26-03-2021 08:51PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

AZ obviously have no vaccine experience, so any company with a worldwide production chain with vaccines would have been a better bet.
Sanofi's candidate may have failed, that doesn't mean they don't know how to mass produce a vacfine.
It's a silly dig at Sanofi, AZ didn't create the vaccine, they are just trying to manufacture.

Nothing sly about it. One of the top 3 vaccine manufacturers and where's their vaccine?

Did Sanofi offer to partner with Oxford?

uptherebels · 26-03-2021 08:51PM

Bambi wrote: »

I'd imagine you were furious when the Germans went on a solo run and struck deals with with vaccine companies outside of the EUs scheme?

Should we question Germanys commitment to the union? The EU were fine with those little side deals but then the EU has always had been willing to make exceptions for Germany.

We're paying a price alright but its not for solidarity.

I'm sure you will be providing the details of these side deals and solo runs

odyssey06 · 26-03-2021 08:55PM

uptherebels wrote: »

I'm sure you will be providing the details of these side deals and solo runs

It's not exactly a secret.

Hanno Kautz, the spokesperson for the German health ministry, confirmed at a press conference Friday that Germany "will receive around 60 million vaccine doses from BioNTech from EU contracts, and 30 million from bilateral contracts or agreements ... in total, 90 million this year. This is something we have done independently of the EU treaties."
Germany secured 30 million doses of the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine in September, violating the EU's vaccination strategy banning countries from conducting parallel negotiations.

https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-coronavirus-vaccine-side-deal-at-odds-with-legally-binding-eu-pact/

robinph · 26-03-2021 08:55PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Haven't the EU already said of the 21mil doses exported from the EU to the UK, only 1mil were AZ?
It's hard to know in December, as it would have been only from Jan were because of brexit, there would have needed to be customs forms filled in and then from Feb on, there was the export licences required.
The fact the UK doesn't make public their stock or deliveries of vaccine doesn't help the speculation.

Scotland have been releasing the numbers of each vaccine they are expecting and when which is where people have been calculating the UK wide numbers from.

Edit: Here is the Scottish data which shows the types used

https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview

Wolf359f · 26-03-2021 08:57PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Nothing sly about it. One of the top 3 vaccine manufacturers and where's their vaccine?

Did Sanofi offer to partner with Oxford?

I don't think so?
There was a provisional agreement between Oxford and Merck, but the UK government would not allow it.
How people cannot see AZ are completely out of their debth is insane.
Using 1 factory to fill a 300mil order and using 4 to fill a 100mil order. And the factory producing the 300mil also has to be used for the 100mil order.

odyssey06 · 26-03-2021 08:58PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

I don't think so?
There was a provisional agreement between Oxford and Merck, but the UK government would not allow it.
How people cannot see AZ are completely out of their debth is insane.
Using 1 factory to fill a 300mil order and using 4 to fill a 100mil order. And the factory producing the 300mil also has to be used for the 100mil order.

Do Merck have vaccine production \ component plants in the EU?
The concern that was stated was re: US export ban.

Pete_Cavan · 26-03-2021 08:59PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Recent reports suggest the Oxford team, led by Prof Sarah Gilbert, were aware of the threat of so-called “vaccine nationalism” as far back as January last year and that this had a major impact on their choice of pharmaceutical partner to manufacture the vaccine. In particular, the Oxford team appears to have been wary of partnering with an American company due to the unpredictability of Trump and his “America First” policy.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/university-know-how-the-secret-sauce-for-vaccine-success-1.4477006

Oxford had negotiated a deal with Merck, they have a strong relationship with them already. The US can't ban exports from other countries.

Wolf359f · 26-03-2021 09:02PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Do Merck have vaccine production \ component plants in the EU?
The concern that was stated was re: US export ban.

Their global headquarters are in Germany, so stands to reason they have plants in the EU.

How has Pfizer, Moderna & J&J been able to produce vaccines in Europe if the US have an export ban?

fly_agaric · 26-03-2021 09:03PM

Bambi wrote: »

the Germans

Bambi wrote: »

Germanys commitment to the union?

Bambi wrote: »

Germany.

On about "Ze Germans" as usual, when you've nothing of worth to say.
Talking about posters who disagreed with you being "in the Fuhrerbunker" yesterday. The war is over and Hitler is dead a long time now.

Tell us, what is Germany's vaccination rate now? Have all these "side deals" you're always bleating about propelled them far above us all as regards supply of vaccine & proportions of citizens vaccinated? Or are they at the EU average?

Shurly being the masters of the 4th Reich counts for something?

There is solidarity going on here even if you refuse to see it.

Dyr · 26-03-2021 09:09PM

uptherebels wrote: »

I'm sure you will be providing the details of these side deals and solo runs

I'd assume that anybody whos paying attention to this topic is already aware of them.

History Queen · 26-03-2021 09:10PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Do Merck have vaccine production \ component plants in the EU?
The concern that was stated was re: US export ban.

Merck (known as MSD outside the US) have a vaccines plant here in Ireland, in Carlow.

https://msd-ireland.com/about-us/msd-ireland-our-sites

murphaph · 26-03-2021 09:17PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Their global headquarters are in Germany, so stands to reason they have plants in the EU.

How has Pfizer, Moderna & J&J been able to produce vaccines in Europe if the US have an export ban?

There are two Mercks. It's the American one Oxford have (had?) a great relationship with. Nevertheless it's a global operation and wiki says they have manufacturing in 31 countries. I'm sure manufacturing sites outside of the US could have been found, just as Pfizer did.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merck_%26_Co.

26-03-2021 09:26PM

History Queen wrote: »

Merck (known as MSD outside the US) have a vaccines plant here in Ireland, in Carlow.

https://msd-ireland.com/about-us/msd-ireland-our-sites

There are lots of vaccines that we can’t just take production capacity away from without other potential consequences.

History Queen · 26-03-2021 09:28PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are lots of vaccines that we can’t just take production capacity away from without other potential consequences.

Oh I know. I was just responding to the previous poster's query about whether Merck had vaccine production facilities in Europe.

astrofool · 26-03-2021 09:34PM

Bambi wrote: »

I'd assume that anybody whos paying attention to this topic is already aware of them.

They are also aware that the solo deals only begin shipping after the EU deal has been fully satisfied, thus the deal is effectively for potential booster shots and for COVAX.

But you were fully aware of that when you posted about the side deals weren't you?

brickster69 · 27-03-2021 11:06AM

EU / AZ contract estimated delivery dates revealed.

https://twitter.com/nickgutteridge/status/1362780886379483137

Bit cynical · 28-03-2021 03:45PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Well there seems to be something going on between AZ and the UK. The UK got 5m doses from India, where doses were to be made for low and middle income countries. They would have taken another 5m only India has now banned exports. The UK was only over in India doing inspections in February so this certainly seems to be more than simply taking delivery of what they ordered.

If AZ are willing to redirect millions of doses which were to be for poorer countries to the UK at short notice with no indication of another super-duper first dibs on everything clause, its not hard to imagine them doing the same to the EU. The fact that India introduced an export ban due to lack of vaccines shows what they think of AZs performance under their contract and doses produced there going to a wealthy European nation.

That still seems to be a problem with AZ rather than the UK who, as far as anyone can tell, have simply taken delivery of what they have ordered as is their right.

uptherebels · 28-03-2021 03:49PM

Bambi wrote: »

I'd assume that anybody whos paying attention to this topic is already aware of them.

Why deflect?

is_that_so · 28-03-2021 04:59PM

brickster69 wrote: »

EU / AZ contract estimated delivery dates revealed.

https://twitter.com/nickgutteridge/status/1362780886379483137

200m in April? :pac: :pac: :pac:

Stark · 28-03-2021 05:02PM

That's the cumulative total. (Assuming that they made their deliveries for Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar).

Charles Babbage · 28-03-2021 05:03PM

is_that_so wrote: »

200m in April? :pac: :pac: :pac:

Yes, Ireland will be receiving 1m AZ vaccines on 1st April, before noon.

RobMc59 · 28-03-2021 07:25PM

This is good news today.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-vaccines-uk-ireland-eu-b1823511.html

Dyr · 28-03-2021 07:43PM

fly_agaric wrote: »

On about "Ze Germans" as usual, when you've nothing of worth to say.
Talking about posters who disagreed with you being "in the Fuhrerbunker" yesterday. The war is over and Hitler is dead a long time now.

Tell us, what is Germany's vaccination rate now? Have all these "side deals" you're always bleating about propelled them far above us all as regards supply of vaccine & proportions of citizens vaccinated? Or are they at the EU average?

Shurly being the masters of the 4th Reich counts for something? There is solidarity going on here even if you refuse to see it.

Seem very angry there, emotion getting the better of you, which seems to be a thing in this thread.

People like yourself putting "side deal" in quotes when Germanys deals outside of the EUs scheme are public knowledge, or the genius who wasn't even aware of them. Ranting about Boris and spin by the British Press rather than accepting the issue was a failure of the EU. I dunno what to tell you, fuhrer bunker seems the best analogy to this behaviour

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Comments