Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

jmcc · 25-03-2021 01:16AM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Of course they will. Here you go, Bobby Storey's funeral, Stanley's tweets, Cullinanes singing, Adams cooking, O 'Snodaigh's printing.
Everything including the kitchen sink will be thrown at the Shinners in an attempt to defend LeotheLeak.

FG nghtshift should be along here soon to kick the ball off with their deflection.

It may be quite the opposite and FG decide to cut him loose. Martin has a very tough decision to make because on the basis of this article, he has to ask for Varadkar to step down. I thinkt hat the FGers are gong to be even more upset and they may be getting Coveney ready to take over.

Regards...jmcc

Peter Flynt · 25-03-2021 01:22AM

jmcc wrote: »

It may be quite the opposite and FG decide to cut him loose. Martin has a very tough decision to make because on the basis of this article, he has to ask for Varadkar to step down. I thinkt hat the FGers are gong to be even more upset and they may be getting Coveney ready to take over.

Regards...jmcc

Martin won't ask Varadkar to step down.
That's up to senior FG TDs to do that. . . . but they're all waiting quietly in the background for someone else to do their dirty work.
The Office of Taoiseach is up for grabs for the next FG leader from December 2022 and he who plunges the dagger never inherits the crown.

This plays into SF's hands.
They expose Varadkar.
FG do nothing.
FF do nothing.
SF benefit

Suckit · 25-03-2021 01:25AM

All the FG posters on Discord trying to figure out how to play this next.
"Do we still blame the Shinners?"
"But.. But.. Mary Lou..."
"If Martin asks him to step down, he has to be a Racist"
"If anyone else asks him to step down, they are probably a Homophobe!"
"Who on earth could possibly step into Leos shoes? It would have to be a man, we don't do Women leaders.."

:pac:

jmcc · 25-03-2021 01:48AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Martin won't ask Varadkar to step down.
That's up to senior FG TDs to do that. . . . but they're all waiting quietly in the background for someone else to do their dirty work.
The Office of Taoiseach is up for grabs for the next FG leader from December 2022 and he who plunges the dagger never inherits the crown.

This plays into SF's hands.
They expose Varadkar.
FG do nothing.
FF do nothing.
SF benefit

SF takes out Varadkar with his own words and gets Martin for free?

While it may be spun as an internal FG matter, Martin is now in a position where he has to act. Varadkar's position as tainiste is not sustainable. If Martin fails to request his resignation (temporary or otherwise) then FF could be below 10% in the next opinion poll and he will face a leadership challenge.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc · 25-03-2021 01:54AM

Suckit wrote: »

All the FG posters on Discord trying to figure out how to play this next.
"Do we still blame the Shinners?"

A smart FGer points out that it was SFers and there is a collective Scanners headpopping with the realisation that Varadkar is now toxic.

Deep in the bowels of Cork, there is noise that sounds like 'yesssss'.

Regards...jmcc

shtpEdthePlum · 25-03-2021 02:04AM

I'm really looking forward to tomorrow. I feel optimistic.

Plumbthedepths · 25-03-2021 02:16AM

Chinese curse, 'May you live in interesting times'. Trying but can be amusing too. It was fun to watch the mental gymnastics here earlier. Olympic standard. .... I look forward to the deflection.... sorry I mean explaining later.

skimpydoo · 25-03-2021 02:39AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Chinese curse, 'May you live in interesting times'. Trying but can be amusing too. It was fun to watch the mental gymnastics here earlier. Olympic standard. .... I look forward to the deflection.... sorry I mean explaining later.

Those who will be deflecting are at the moment in bed getting a good night's sleep, not yet knowing what they will be waking up to. Their excuses later will be a joy to read and one has to wonder how long will Leo last? I think he might be gone by this Friday.

James Brown · 25-03-2021 04:19AM

RandomName2 wrote: »

I don't have time to get knee deep in this again at the moment, and I also think there's a deficit in necessary detail, but just pointing out one thing that occurred to me.

The IMO casually shared the draft contract with all of its members. About 20% of all doctors in the country were members of the IMO at that time if I remember correctly. That's thousands of people presumably receiving the contract.

That's not what I would consider secretive boardroom context. Were all these IMO members negotiators of the contract? Hardly. They may vote on the final deal, but they wouldn't all be in the room when it was being discussed. For one thing, they wouldn't all fit.

And I wonder if any IMO member shared this contract detail with any of his colleagues? Indeed some (but presumably not many) IMO members were also members of NAGP. I would imagine that some people from that profession would feel their colleagues being kept in the dark was somewhat inequitable. I would really like to hear the position of a couple of doctors to be honest.

"Casually", indeed. Nice colour.

Yes, it was a confidential negotiation document between the IMO and the department of health. Its for those parties to decide who is privvy, not Varadkar.
Negotiators are representatives. Its unlikely every IMO decision maker was there either.
We are getting into irrelevant semantics.

Saying, 'but how confidential was it really?' is a nonsense.
Don't see the relevance of a doctor's opinion.

McMurphy · 25-03-2021 07:38AM

skimpydoo wrote: »

It's worth noting over the past 3 years other TD's have fallen for less.

Wouldnt Leo have been cheerleading/calling for many of these resignations?

jmcc wrote: »

That FOI request is quite damning for Varadkar. It has the timeline of the request and a quote where there is an awareness that the IMO had not published the document or distributed it to its members.

Regards...jmcc

I'd agree jmcc.

It's not what I expected to wake up to this morning, I just don't get the thoughts of Leo being in denial about this and how it was all going to eventually be exposed..

He should know dam well that public and civil servants conduct most of their business via email and that these emails leave a digital footprint of evidence. Ok fair enough, as past (and I highly doubt now, ever to be Taoiseach again) he's probably sent literally countless emails to his officials, but you'd kind of think this one, where he ordered a document to be waiting on him as he stepped off a jet so he could forward it to his pal, (the same day he asked his pal for his private address) to be standout memory, one that might come back and bite him.

That piece is fairly specific, both on putting time stamps on the email (right down to the time of day) and the language used that it was still being finalized/hadn't even been circulated between IMO members.

Varadkar thinks he's some kind of Irish Putin, telling the Irish people "he'll not be charged" and ordering documents to be waiting on him as he steps of planes etc, yeah we know a premier might want documents waiting on him as he returns from business would not be out of the norm.

But remember, Vladimir I mean Varadkar wanted them waiting on him as he stepped off a jet so he could finalize the plans he made to leak them to someone who had no business receiving them..

Some irony if AGS decided to soften his cough today..... That'll put an end to him prancing around like a billy big balls telling us all how this will end up..

Leo's goosed I think. The drip drip drip surrounding this story is farily reminiscent of the FG story and a hotel. We all know that didn't have a fairytale ending there..

If Michaél sits back and does nothing now, then it's clear he's not the one actually running the show. Leo has his hand up the rear of his sweater pulling strings like he's a ventriloquist, and Michaél is his life sized dummy!

Banana Republic 1 · 25-03-2021 07:53AM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Okay so I've looked through this ****fest. 510 pages this thread has. Has nobody been arsed to do this before now? Has it just been leoootheeeleaaak from the usual crowd? He's got to go now. He's done for. It's even more illegal now. He's toast.

Okay so...

The GP agreement was concluded by April 6th.

Source
https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/media/pressrel/gp-contract-launch.html

Source
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30915934.html

Source
https://www.imo.ie/news-media/news-press-releases/2019/statement-imo-reaches-210/index.xml

Ó Tuathail seems to have received a copy of the draft agreement on the 16th or 17th of April

Source
https://miro.medium.com/max/700/1*G451xkNZQcVUNy6Fjd-Jbw.png
(check the time stamp)

'Well maybe he had it for weeks and just didn't mention it?'
Just before anybody makes that bull**** retort think about the implication. This would mean that Ó Tuathail didn't share it with anybody else in NAGP for weeks. It is clear that the top brass (literally labeled 'Inner Sanctum') only heard that Ó Tuathail had a copy of the draft a full day after the Dail had received it and discussed it.

'Maybe the image has been doctored'

The only people who could have doctored that image would have been The Village. Right.

Look I always stated that nobody was interested in this. Nobody is interested in the GP agreement. Nobody is interested in why NAGP wasn't at the table. Nobody is interested in the IMO's current position. Nobody is interested in the moral or ethical implications of any of this. Nobody is interested in any sense or logic. It is the most painfully transparent hatchet job I've seen.

The Children's Hospital. There. If you want a real scandal get off your arses and do some work. You're a bunch of lazy whingers.

There’s more chance of Gerry admitting he was in the IRA then there is of LV going without a massive fuss you just have to recal the Francise Fitzgerald debacle, and now she is in Brussels people never learn.

Johnthemanager · 25-03-2021 09:01AM

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

There’s more chance of Gerry admitting he was in the IRA then there is of LV going without a massive fuss you just have to recal the Francise Fitzgerald debacle, and now she is in Brussels people never learn.

The forgetful Frances has just received a massive promotion in Europe.

jmcc · 25-03-2021 09:16AM

McMurphy wrote: »

I'd agree jmcc.

It's not what I expected to wake up to this morning, I just don't get the thoughts of Leo being in denial about this and how it was all going to eventually be exposed..

It is a fairly damning article:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40250747.html

He should know dam well that public and civil servants conduct most of their business via email and that these emails leave a digital footprint of evidence. Ok fair enough, as past (and I highly doubt now, ever to be Taoiseach again) he's probably sent literally countless emails to his officials, but you'd kind of think this one, where he ordered a document to be waiting on him as he stepped off a jet so he could forward it to his pal, (the same day he asked his pal for his private address) to be standout memory, one that might come back and bite him.

Perhaps he never expected things to get this far.

Varadkar thinks he's some kind of Irish Putin, telling the Irish people "he'll not be charged" and ordering documents to be waiting on him as he steps of planes etc, yeah we know a premier might want documents waiting on him as he returns from business would not be out of the norm.

Varadkar has been lucky with the Dublin media being largely on-side. All it takes is for one publication or station to break ranks and the others follow. The Irish Examiner ran the story. It was, ironically, an SF FOI request. What generally happens when a newspaper gets a scoop is that the others pile on and start submitting their own FOI requests.

But remember, Vladimir I mean Varadkar wanted them waiting on him as he stepped off a jet so he could finalize the plans he made to leak them to someone who had no business receiving them..

Putin is KGB. Varadkar wouldn't last very long in that world.

Some irony if AGS decided to soften his cough today..... That'll put an end to him prancing around like a billy big balls telling us all how this will end up..

He's a disaster for his spindoctors in that they don't seem to be able to control him.

Leo's goosed I think. The drip drip drip surrounding this story is farily reminiscent of the FG story and a hotel.

That's the curious thing about this story. The politically friendly media did their best to avoid it while the Village Magazine ran with it. The Golfgate story was a dripfeed one. With this one, most of the facts emerged in the first few Village articles.

If Michaél sits back and does nothing now, then it's clear he's not the one actually running the show.

It is far more dangerous for him to do nothing about this because it will accelerate his removal. That creates a Cowen 2.0 situation where the leader of FF is not the taoiseach after having been removed. Martin will not want that as his legacy so he might even be encouraged to ask Varadkar to step down.

As for Varadkar, losing Varadkar in this way would be highly damaging for its image and the image of the party as a socially progressive one. FG has to be seen to present a united party view on this but it would not be surprising if orders for election posters were being considered. The quotes in the Examiner from Kate O'Connell would suggest that some ex-FG TDs are not too pleased with Varadkar's performance. To the Dublin media bubble, he is their media miracle. To FG he is an electoral disaster. The FG grassroots seem vindicated with their choice of Coveney while the FG "officer class" chose Varadkar. Those who backed Varadkar must be worried about being politically fragged over this. Some FFers who don't exactly support Martin will be happy that FG has a leader who is worse than their own.

Regards...jmcc

Dempo1 · 25-03-2021 09:18AM

What is Leo's agenda here, giving interviews and discussing preemptively the outcome of a criminal investigation his actions are the subject of. I know of no person who is the subject of such an investigation who discusses it, certainly no criminal defence solicitor would be advising any client on such a strategy.

Leo seems to think heresay and rolling commentary on such a serious matter will determine its outcome, very strange strategy it's actually concerning.

No doubting he's innocent until proven guilty but its not for him to determine either.

nialler1978 · 25-03-2021 09:33AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

What is Leo's agenda here, giving interviews and discussing preemptively the outcome of a criminal investigation his actions are the subject of. I know of no person who is the subject of such an investigation who discusses it, certainly no criminal defence solicitor would be advising any client on such a strategy.

Leo seems to think heresay and rolling commentary on such a serious matter will determine its outcome, very strange strategy it's actually concerning.

No doubting he's innocent until proven guilty but its not for him to determine either.

derailing the investigation, see Mary Harney and Haughey and the McCracken tribunal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/haughey-s-old-enemy-harney-saves-his-skin-1.287985

Banana Republic 1 · 25-03-2021 09:38AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

What is Leo's agenda here, giving interviews and discussing preemptively the outcome of a criminal investigation his actions are the subject of. I know of no person who is the subject of such an investigation who discusses it, certainly no criminal defence solicitor would be advising any client on such a strategy.

Leo seems to think heresay and rolling commentary on such a serious matter will determine its outcome, very strange strategy it's actually concerning.

No doubting he's innocent until proven guilty but its not for him to determine either.

Why is he out giving interviews? Because he is a publicity hound.

Look at the difference between LV and dara Kileary or Alan shatter, both resigned. Alan shatter was cleared afterward and both he had the decency to not make to big a scandal of it.

Frances Fitzgerald on the other had pulled the classic Irish political brass neck move and drag it all out for weeks when see could have gone been cleared and gone to Europe with a luntarnished record. Big foot Phil tried to pull the same trick but had to many enemies.

LV will do a Frances Fitzgerald.

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2021 09:39AM

I think Micheál Martin will be the happiest of the three in the coalition, he is staying out of trouble while his partners are in turmoil.

If Varadkar doesn't go on his own bat, a spell of FG tearing themselves apart internally while the Greens are doing similar...government of chaos to continue.

Plumbthedepths · 25-03-2021 09:48AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think Micheál Martin will be the happiest of the three in the coalition, he is staying out of trouble while his partners are in turmoil.

If Varadkar doesn't go on his own bat, a spell of FG tearing themselves apart internally while the Greens are doing similar...government of chaos to continue.

Martin has his own woes from a few of his senior TD's. The grindstone is being turned on .....

RandomName2 · 25-03-2021 09:50AM

Suckit wrote: »

All the FG posters on Discord trying to figure out how to play this next.
"Do we still blame the Shinners?"
"But.. But.. Mary Lou..."

'But Sinn Fein' defense strikes again. When you have nothing to say, say that your opponents cannot criticize Sinn Fein. After all, you are hardly aiming for an impartial analysis anyway and it's bound to get applause from the shills.

On a different note, it would be nice if we could just see all of this material that was requested from the FOI and just make up our own minds. Getting Doherty's reader's digest is less useful.

At least with the whatsapp messages they were screenshots, but even then, the full collection of them would be more interesting and illuminating. While somewhat interested, I would prefer that the information not be filtered through someone with a political ax to grind. Wait.. I'm staying close to talking about motivation. Damn you 'But Sinn Fein' defense with your arbitrary and slanted restrictions!

I also think that the timeline after the 16th of April is far, far more valuable than before the 16th. Is there nothing to say about after the 16th of April? Is there an FOI pending for material dated after the 16th? Has there been one and no interested party has chosen to leak this information? Again we have information being hidden from us in this regard. If there were no substantial changes to the agreement after the 16th (which is probably the case, but not confirmed) then much of the issue is moot.

shtpEdthePlum · 25-03-2021 09:51AM

Where is everyone good morning, I thought there was loads to debate and nitpick but it seems it's a cooked goose.

I can not wait to sit down at the desk and listen to what I imagine will be constant coverage of it on RTÉ

Lol

Doctors room ghost · 25-03-2021 09:51AM

The snare is tightening on the leak.and not before time.

jmcc · 25-03-2021 09:58AM

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Where is everyone good morning, I thought there was loads to debate and nitpick but it seems it's a cooked goose.

I think that a lot of FGers are wondering why their cornflakes have a strange taste this morning.

I can not wait to sit down at the desk and listen to what I imagine will be constant coverage of it on RTÉ

Of course.

The Examiner is owned by the Irish Times so that might be a sign that things are changing.

Regards...jmcc

RandomName2 · 25-03-2021 09:59AM

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

There’s more chance of Gerry admitting he was in the IRA

I don't know why you are quoting me.

I looked at the evidence (the WhatsApp messages).

The only person willing to look at evidence was McMurphy. Everyone else here is just to mutter 'Leo Varadkar is toast' using different synonyms. Sometimes they even say leo the leak. I am not sure you see the genius there. Leo leaked the document. But there's an 'Le' in leo and an 'Le' in leak. It's very subtle, and doesn't get in the least bit old seeing this level of sophisticated assessment.

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

then there is of LV going without a massive fuss you just have to recal the Francise Fitzgerald debacle, and now she is in Brussels people never learn.

Again a fairly unrelated tangent. I think your compatriots actually use FFG to prove a different point about people resigning rather than creating a massive fuss. It doesn't really matter though as it isn't very relevant anyway, and was a use for 'But Sinn Fein' crew to chew up a couple of hundred pages of this thread.

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

The snare is tightening on the leak.and not before time.

Snare on a leak.

Snare on a leak. Yup you heard this piece of rhetorical gold here first. You can put a snare. On a leak.

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2021 10:02AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Martin has his own woes from a few of his senior TD's. The grindstone is being turned on .....

Certainly has. But I have a grudging admiration for how he has handled it all so far. He has surprised me.
It's Leo who now looks like the ambitious sleeveen career politician - or more like one.

Quite a turnaround and I am sure Micheál is having private smirks at the discomfort of FG.

McMurphy · 25-03-2021 10:05AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Certainly has. But I have a grudging admiration for how he has handled it all so far. He has surprised me.
It's Leo who now looks like the ambitious sleeveen career politician - or more like one.

Quite a turnaround and I am sure Micheál is having private smirks at the discomfort of FG.

QFT I'd thank this twice if I could, excellent summarisation Francie.

Knives likely be getting sharpened now for Leo from team FG, he's completely and utterly toxic to their brand.

Have the odds on Leo skidaddling before June shortened this morning I wonder?

thomas 123 · 25-03-2021 10:05AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Certainly has. But I have a grudging admiration for how he has handled it all so far. He has surprised me.
It's Leo who now looks like the ambitious sleeveen career politician - or more like one.

Quite a turnaround and I am sure Micheál is having private smirks at the discomfort of FG.

Will he(MM) capitalize now and try hold onto the big seat?

Dempo1 · 25-03-2021 10:09AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think Micheál Martin will be the happiest of the three in the coalition, he is staying out of trouble while his partners are in turmoil.

If Varadkar doesn't go on his own bat, a spell of FG tearing themselves apart internally while the Greens are doing similar...government of chaos to continue.

Actually makes a refreshing change

McMurphy · 25-03-2021 10:14AM

RandomName2 wrote: »

I also think that the timeline after the 16th of April is far, far more valuable than before the 16th. Is there nothing to say about after the 16th of April? Is there an FOI pending for material dated after the 16th? Has there been one and no interested party has chosen to leak this information? Again we have information being hidden from us in this regard. If there were no substantial changes to the agreement after the 16th (which is probably the case, but not confirmed) then much of the issue is moot.

Here's an email from the 17th that shows Simon Harris, the actual minister for health was still trying to get his hands on this document.

https://twitter.com/nwl88444048/status/1375000815639932929?s=19

Plumbthedepths · 25-03-2021 10:16AM

McMurphy wrote: »

Here's an email from the 17th that shows Simon Harris, the actual minister for health was still trying to get his hands on this document.

https://twitter.com/nwl88444048/status/1375000815639932929?s=19

Looks like 'Leo the leak' may have to be changed to 'Leo the liar' based on the above claim about Harris.

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2021 10:16AM

thomas 123 wrote: »

Will he(MM) capitalize now and try hold onto the big seat?

If he handles this debacle right, gets a bounce in the polls, he might be able to leave on his own terms. Stave off a putsch.

Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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