2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1

givyjoe · 24-03-2021 02:05PM

NickNickleby wrote: »

Well, if I was considering selling, I'd probably put my house up now, while the madness exists. The cost of renting thereafter would probably be WELL offset by the current mad prices apparently being achieved.

Hopefully the madness subsides by summer. In which case, both your neighbours will benefit from a falling market (having benefitted from a mad market) - and the same will apply to those currently struggling to get a property. I really hope so.

Would it though? Like how much would a 3 bed house cost to rent? 2-2.5k? If you do that for a year, you're going to be losing a fairly sizeable chunk of your selling premium.

JimmyVik · 24-03-2021 02:07PM

K.Hawksworth wrote: »

All 3 companies are known to pay well so they probably won't have too much trouble sourcing accommodation. That's assuming none of the 3,000 live here already, which a lot probably do.

It was actually said in Jest

I was next going to ask props could he sort them out with some of his empty properties. But the joke died on me

NickNickleby · 24-03-2021 02:20PM

givyjoe wrote: »

Would it though? Like how much would a 3 bed house cost to rent? 2-2.5k? If you do that for a year, you're going to be losing a fairly sizeable chunk of your selling premium.

At those rates you're probably right. I was assuming (there's that word again:D) rent of 1.8 - 2k. I was also assuming significant drop selling prices.

Anyway, as sentiment plays a part in the market, consider my post a contribution to that:pac::pac::pac:

The_Conductor · 24-03-2021 02:33PM

cnocbui wrote: »

A commerce spokesman representing US companies based in Ireland has previously complained to the Irish government about the excessive costs and complexities of the Irish legal system calling them a notable disincentive, so I am not sure the legal system is exactly an attraction.

Honestly- try to put together a labour case in France and bring it to court- and compare your experience to here. Its chalk and cheese (to say nothing of the open contempt that some magistrates in France hold for US multinational companies). Don't under-estimate the benefit our legal system here- it may be pricey, but by god, its a lot easier to navigate than the systems in many of our competitor EU countries.

fliball123 · 24-03-2021 02:35PM

Zenify wrote: »

our unemployment rate is also a record I'd say.

We wont know this until Covid is gone

Villa05 · 24-03-2021 02:36PM

Mad_maxx wrote:

i know the Limerick city market well , bar circa 2014 at the latest , you could not buy apartments in Limerick city for 70 K anywhere bar the dumps on the Dock road around mount kennet and those are 100 k today.

Do you think that the government's housing policy in Dublin will be the mount Kennet's of the future.

The_Conductor wrote:

Presumably south of the M50- though a lot of them would naturally like to live in the greater Lucan/Leixlip/Maynooth/Kilcock areas.

If they built houses from the chips they make, would they be cheaper than the ones made with concrete blocks

jill_valentine · 24-03-2021 02:58PM

That Intel announcement is quite creative...

The 1600 "new" jobs announced are the same 1600 announced in 2019. It's the staff complement of the chip factory they've currently got between 4-6000 people building, so in a sense, the completion of that factory marks the end of several thousand jobs.

They announced how many people will staff the factory, started building the factory, and then reannounced they're going to staff the factory they've almost built. It doesn't represent a renewed commitment or anything, it's just following through on their ongoing investment.

That's neither here nor there in terms of this thread, because I suppose the relevance is whether it represents MNC confidence in Ireland, but just for clarity's sake.

awec · 24-03-2021 03:01PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

That Intel announcement is quite creative...

The 1600 "new" jobs announced are the same 1600 announced in 2019. It's the staff complement of the chip factory they've currently got between 4-6000 people building, so in a sense, the completion of that factory marks the end of several thousand jobs.

They announced how many people will staff the factory, started building the factory, and then reannounced they're going to staff the factory they've almost built. It doesn't represent a renewed commitment or anything, it's just following through on their ongoing investment.

That's neither here nor there in terms of this thread, because I suppose the relevance is whether it represents MNC confidence in Ireland, but just for clarity's sake.

4-6000 people building?

Are you sure about that number?

Hubertj · 24-03-2021 03:02PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Sounds a bit weird - the bit about over the three years to the end of 2021. I thought it was already 2021. So they have been secretly investing 2.5B a year since early 2019? And this didn't create any jobs worth mentioning, but now suddenly 1600 will be created all of a sudden? Also, the details will be available by the end of this year for something that has already happened?

Do you suppose they meant 2023?

I believe there were delays due to challenges around planning. Not sure if they have been resolved as yet.

MacronvFrugals · 24-03-2021 03:04PM

I see Eastern European academics are having an inquisitive look under the hood of the green isle

"Why you shouldn't trust Ireland's economic statistics"

Ireland uses enormous incentives to attract intangible assets as well as research & development expenditure by the international corporations. Such activities allow global firms to reduce their tax burden nearly to zero.

Ireland uses such practices at the expense of other EU member states.

The above-mentioned mechanisms encourage international corporations to artificially transfer profits earned in other countries.

This process generates around two-thirds of Ireland's CIT revenue, but at the same time it costs other countries – primarily the EU, the United Kingdom and the United States – billions of dollars/euros every year.

Therefore, Ireland has become one of the world's greatest acquirers of phantom foreign investments. Phantom, because its objective is tax optimisation rather than productive use of capital.

First and foremost, the cause of the problem should be dealt with – by putting an end to the practices used by Ireland, typical of a tax haven.

https://euobserver.com/opinion/151169#:~:text=Ireland%20is%20a%20tax%20haven&text=The%20standard%20corporate%20income%20tax,expenditure%20by%20the%20international%20corporations.

The_Conductor · 24-03-2021 03:09PM

Hubertj wrote: »

I believe there were delays due to challenges around planning. Not sure if they have been resolved as yet.

Thomas Reid, the farmer whose land borders Intels- was given leave to apply for a judicial review of Intel's Planning permission in Feb 2020. With Covid- its o/s and hasn't been resolved yet, however, the portents are not in Mr. Reid's favour. Think its the 4th or 5th case he has taken against Intel in the last 7 years.

Still o/s.

cnocbui · 24-03-2021 03:12PM

The_Conductor wrote: »

Honestly- try to put together a labour case in France and bring it to court- and compare your experience to here. Its chalk and cheese (to say nothing of the open contempt that some magistrates in France hold for US multinational companies). Don't under-estimate the benefit our legal system here- it may be pricey, but by god, its a lot easier to navigate than the systems in many of our competitor EU countries.

It's taken me €5,000, more than two years, and one lawyer unfortunately passed away on the job, to get an executorship and probate sorted.

In Autralia the issue would never even have arisen, so cost would have been zero as you don't need lawyers to do a probate.

It was the US chamber of commerce who directed the complaint at the Irish government, not me:

the World Bank is also of the view that Ireland is a costly place to litigate, finding it to be the sixth most expensive place in the OECD to enforce a contract.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/caveat-emptor-the-soaring-cost-of-legal-services-36222383.html

Villa05 · 24-03-2021 03:13PM

MacronvFrugals wrote:

I see Eastern European academics are having an inquisitive look under the hood of the green isle

Was it Michael noonan who brought in the knowledge box tax incentive. It was my understanding that this was for ideas developed in Ireland. Has it evolved into a box where ideas developed elsewhere are transferred into to minimise tax. If that is the case we are really milking it dry

timmyntc · 24-03-2021 03:19PM

awec wrote: »

4-6000 people building?

Are you sure about that number?

Their new building is huge in scale and size, hard to grasp just how large it is.
Also because its a semiconductor fab, lots of other skilled staff required to install some of the more technical components.

Across the lifetime of the build, 4-6000 is probably right. Not all at once.

awec · 24-03-2021 03:20PM

cnocbui wrote: »

It's taken me €5,000, more than two years, and one lawyer unfortunately passed away on the job, to get an executorship and probate sorted.

In Autralia the issue would never even have arisen, so cost would have been zero as you don't need lawyers to do a probate.

It was the US chamber of commerce who directed the complaint at the Irish government, not me:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/caveat-emptor-the-soaring-cost-of-legal-services-36222383.html

Australia uses the same legal system as here (common law).

cnocbui · 24-03-2021 03:30PM

awec wrote: »

Australia uses the same legal system as here (common law).

You don't need a Lawyer to buy and sell residential property in Australia. The system might be called common, but there is scant in common between the two legal systems, in a practical sense for normal people.

awec · 24-03-2021 03:36PM

cnocbui wrote: »

You don't need a Lawyer to buy and sell residential property in Australia. The system might be called common, but there is scant in common between the two legal systems, in a practical sense for normal people.

People don't hire solicitors when buying houses because the legal system is complicated, buying a house doesn't have much to do with the legal system itself.

timmyntc · 24-03-2021 03:42PM

awec wrote: »

People don't hire solicitors when buying houses because the legal system is complicated, buying a house doesn't have much to do with the legal system itself.

Thats the point?

Its not complicated and you shouldnt need a solicitor. But in Ireland you do, and it will cost you.

WhiteWalls · 24-03-2021 03:44PM

Listened to David McWilliams latest podcast last night. He's basically said that if you are intending on buying to refrain from doing so for two years. He also said to take advantage of the falling rent prices.

I agree with him on the first point but don't see any evidence for his second point.

Personally I have been looking at property in a couple of towns on the commuter belt. Current asking price for a house in one estate was 250k. Looked at the property price register from this estate for 2019 where it was 55k less and in 2014 when it was over 100k less for a house 8n this estate. I know all houses are not the same but they couldn't possibly be that much different.

I do think it is sadly the worsrt possible time to buy.

Mic 1972 · 24-03-2021 04:01PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Thats the point?

Its not complicated and you shouldnt need a solicitor. But in Ireland you do, and it will cost you.

it's the same in almost every country in Europe. if it's not a solicitor it's another legal institution that will still take a few thousand euro for paperwork

Pelezico · 24-03-2021 04:04PM

awec wrote: »

Australia uses the same legal system as here (common law).

cnocbui wrote: »

You don't need a Lawyer to buy and sell residential property in Australia. The system might be called common, but there is scant in common between the two legal systems, in a practical sense for normal people.

You do not need a lawyer to buy a house in Australia. It is a lot cheaper. I know because I lived there about a century ago.

Pelezico · 24-03-2021 04:07PM

awec wrote: »

People don't hire solicitors when buying houses because the legal system is complicated, buying a house doesn't have much to do with the legal system itself.

Not sure what point you are making except to disagree. Here is the thing. You try buying a house in Ireland without a solicitor.

Guess what..you wont and the bank wont be interested.

jill_valentine · 24-03-2021 04:07PM

awec wrote: »

4-6000 people building?

Are you sure about that number?

Intel described it as "up to 6,000" when it was announced first so I was covering myself a bit at that and all

It wouldn't be all at once, but in fairness it is an absolutely bulhugous facility, big enough that they got an exemption to carry through the current lockdown with several thousand construction workers on site. The development is only just smaller than Ellis Island.

Yurt2 · 24-03-2021 04:09PM

cnocbui wrote: »

I gave links a few posts back showing one listed for €70 K last October.

Asking v sale price.

There's not a snowball's chance a unit like that sold at 70k.

timmyntc · 24-03-2021 04:10PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Intel described it as "up to 6,000" when it was announced first so I was covering myself a bit at that and all

It wouldn't be all at once, but in fairness it is an absolutely bulhugous facility, big enough that they got an exemption to carry through the current lockdown with several thousand construction workers on site. The development is only just smaller than Ellis Island.

Such a large building that several years ago they built a smaller (albeit still huge - like multi story carpark big) scale model to iron out the kinks in building the real thing!

L1011 · 24-03-2021 04:10PM

Pelezico wrote: »

You do not need a lawyer to buy a house in Australia. It is a lot cheaper. I know because I lived there about a century ago.

You still usually (state-dependent) need a "conveyancer" who is a paralegal, though; and the current Government is intending to bring in such a profession/qualification here.

jill_valentine wrote: »

It wouldn't be all at once, but in fairness it is an absolutely bulhugous facility, big enough that they got an exemption to carry through the current lockdown with several thousand construction workers on site. The development is only just smaller than Ellis Island.

The exemption is a general consideration of semiconductor manufacturing as essential that allows the construction work, because there is a global shortage of processors and they are rather important in keeping the world going these days!

awec · 24-03-2021 04:15PM

Pelezico wrote: »

Not sure what point you are making except to disagree. Here is the thing. You try buying a house in Ireland without a solicitor.

Guess what..you wont and the bank wont be interested.

Which one is the exception here, Ireland or Australia?

jill_valentine · 24-03-2021 04:18PM

L1011 wrote: »

The exemption is a general consideration of semiconductor manufacturing as essential that allows the construction work, because there is a global shortage of processors and they are rather important in keeping the world going these days!

That's a very fair point.

Pelezico · 24-03-2021 04:20PM

awec wrote: »

Which one is the exception here, Ireland or Australia?

Listen...let's leave it here. I dont care which is the exception. I wanted to clarify that a solicitor is not required in Australia and is in Ireland.

To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

Pelezico · 24-03-2021 04:30PM

L1011 wrote: »

You still usually (state-dependent) need a "conveyancer" who is a paralegal, though; and the current Government is intending to bring in such a profession/qualification here.

The exemption is a general consideration of semiconductor manufacturing as essential that allows the construction work, because there is a global shortage of processors and they are rather important in keeping the world going these days!

Yes...a paralegal is used but a lot cheaper than solicitor. As an aside, I was paying 17% on my mortgage in Australia. It must have been around 1990. We used to read about interest rates in UK being 15% at the same time.

There was a crushing recession in Australia in the early nineties.

2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

Comments

2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1