Crazy extension prices

adocholiday · 23-03-2021 09:12AM #1

Hi all,

Just finished the tender process for an extension that we want to get done and the prices we got back were crazy. Only 3 builders priced the job and the prices were €145k, €160k and €170k. All we are doing is knocking a 1.5m x 1.8m porch and replacing with a 2.6m x 4.4m porch, and extending a 6m wide gable wall out by 2m and putting in full height and width glazing. The prices from the builders exclude the glass supply and fit. There are some other ancillary works being done too but those 2 are the primary changes.

Question is are prices crazy high at the moment and should we wait to see if things calm down? Or better to just take the risk now and go for it? I know nobody can see into the future but just wondering what trends people are seeing.

893bet · 23-03-2021 09:24AM

Is that two separate small extensions?

sydthebeat · 23-03-2021 09:25AM

€7,400 per meter without glazing ???

theres something very up with those prices.

adocholiday · 23-03-2021 09:39AM

893bet wrote: »

Is that two separate small extensions?

Yes it is actually

adocholiday · 23-03-2021 09:44AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

€7,400 per meter without glazing ???

theres something very up with those prices.

I've maybe over-simplified it a little bit for the sake of keeping the post short but yes even taking into account the additional bits of work it seems mad. For instance the 6x2 gable is vaulted so it's about 8m tall, the new porch is a slightly unusual shape so again might impact the price some but I don't think any of that justifies the price.

adocholiday · 23-03-2021 09:44AM

Double post

listermint · 23-03-2021 09:48AM

adocholiday wrote: »

I've maybe over-simplified it a little bit for the sake of keeping the post short but yes even taking into account the additional bits of work it seems mad. For instance the 6x2 gable is vaulted so it's about 8m tall, the new porch is a slightly unusual shape so again might impact the price some but I don't think any of that justifies the price.

Your bringing out the back of the house to full roof height by two meters ?

maxsmum · 23-03-2021 10:22AM

We added a 22sqm extension, attic conversion for 18sqm ensuite bedroom, entire house rewired and replumbed and windows replaced, it was 215k including retrofitting old house. We had 3 tenders. We actually got one price for 50% over the second highest. It took us a year to get over the shock and then realise we weren't going to get it cheaper. We honestly bought the house thinking our measly 100k to finish it would be enough. When we got a mortgage/equity release it doesn't work out as very expensive to fund the rest, well if you ignore the interest the bank earns over the term anyway. There's a lot to be said for buying a new build or a turnkey property. Most Irish homes come with tiny kitchens and rickety conservatories that are totally unsuitable for modern open plan living.

It is worth it in the end. But I wish we had been more prepared.

adocholiday · 23-03-2021 10:26AM

listermint wrote: »

Your bringing out the back of the house to full roof height by two meters ?

It's the side of the house really. Hard to explain without seeing it but basically the house is essentially 2 offset rectangular blocks. We are aligning one side with the other. I've done a very crude illustration here just to show it. We weren't going to bother with the 2m extension just glaze the gable but really that 2m will transform the space inside and will also look better architecturally so we felt it was worth it (before we got the prices back!)

https://i.imgur.com/p9qz0Es.png

adocholiday · 23-03-2021 10:53AM

maxsmum wrote: »

We added a 22sqm extension, attic conversion for 18sqm ensuite bedroom, entire house rewired and replumbed and windows replaced, it was 215k including retrofitting old house. We had 3 tenders. We actually got one price for 50% over the second highest. It took us a year to get over the shock and then realise we weren't going to get it cheaper. We honestly bought the house thinking our measly 100k to finish it would be enough. When we got a mortgage/equity release it doesn't work out as very expensive to fund the rest, well if you ignore the interest the bank earns over the term anyway. There's a lot to be said for buying a new build or a turnkey property. Most Irish homes come with tiny kitchens and rickety conservatories that are totally unsuitable for modern open plan living.

It is worth it in the end. But I wish we had been more prepared.

Yeah we were kind of in a similar boat because the architect and engineer both felt that it was a 120k-130k job including the glazing so it's been a fair jump! If the price is reasonable then we're ok to go for it, but just seems crazy high for a 21m extension with not much in the way of reworking things.

adocholiday · 23-03-2021 11:50AM

Is it possible to hire a QS myself? Would that be feasible? If I had an impartial QS to just give me a materials only costing at least then it'd be possible to see how much the builder is charging or inflating costs. Has anyone done this before?

DOCARCH · 23-03-2021 11:57AM

adocholiday wrote: »

If I had an impartial QS to just give me a materials only costing at least then it'd be possible to see how much the builder is charging or inflating costs. Has anyone done this before?

Not sure what the point would be TBH? What are you going to do with the information....tell all the builders they are inflating the costs?

If you have tendered the job, the lowest tendering contractor is unlikely to be inflating the costs.

If you are not happy with the tenders you received, get a couple more.

adocholiday · 23-03-2021 12:10PM

DOCARCH wrote: »

Not sure what the point would be TBH? What are you going to do with the information....tell all the builders they are inflating the costs?

If you have tendered the job, the lowest tendering contractor is unlikely to be inflating the costs.

If you are not happy with the tenders you received, get a couple more.

Fair point but the price just seems to be so far off the mark in terms of price per sqm that I'd like to know where the additional cost is coming from. I appreciate that the builder has a profit to make etc. I'm not expecting them to do the job for anything less than a fair and reasonable price, but at the same time there has to be a reason that the prices we received are so much higher than anticipated so would be good to get to the bottom of it. It might also put me in a better negotiating position to be informed.

dubrov · 23-03-2021 12:13PM

Prices are very high at the moment.

Maybe try a second tender. If you get 3 more quotes in the same take, you'll just have to accept that's the price right now

Graham · 23-03-2021 12:21PM

A QS might at least give the OP an indication of any elements that are particularly expensive giving them an opportunity to tweak the plans accordingly.

OP, have you asked your architect if they can organise/recommend a QS?

DOCARCH · 23-03-2021 12:34PM

Your architect/engineer suggested up to E130K.

Your lowest tender came in at E145K.

To me, that's not an absolute shocker?

I would suggest sitting down with lowest tendering contractor (possibly/probably with your architect/engineer) for a discussion to see where the money is going and might there be alternative/cheaper solutions to some elements, without loosing design/space, to see if builders tender can come close to what your architect/engineer were suggesting.

If that fails, then seek alternative tenders.

maxsmum · 23-03-2021 12:38PM

Check their QS prices too
Our builder's QS had kitchen in at 40k (!) and sanitary ware fittings were twice what we paid
Same for flooring
Kept our own boiler
One glazing pattern would have cost 25k in itself, we made a small change to the appearance and got it way down
There are a few ways to save cash, things like underfloor heatings, demolitions, walls and windows not much movement though

adocholiday · 23-03-2021 12:44PM

Graham wrote: »

OP, have you asked your architect if they can organise/recommend a QS?

DOCARCH wrote: »

Your architect/engineer suggested up to E130K.

Your lowest tender came in at E145K.

To me, that's not an absolute shocker?

I would suggest sitting down with lowest tendering contractor (possibly/probably with your architect/engineer) for a discussion to see where the money is going and might there be alternative/cheaper solutions to some elements, without loosing design/space, to see if builders tender can come close to what your architect/engineer were suggesting.

If that fails, then seek alternative tenders.

Sorry should have said the architect and engineer said that was what they expected including glazing (€30k) so we're €45k off. Appreciate that they are not quantity surveyors or builders so their guess couldn't be relied on for accuracy but they're both very experienced so their opinion would at least count for something.

I think though I will do as suggested which is to ask for a meeting for us all to go through the tender and see where they are seeing the biggest costs. Thanks for the input everyone.

sydthebeat · 23-03-2021 12:49PM

adocholiday wrote: »

Sorry should have said the architect and engineer said that was what they expected including glazing (€30k) so we're €45k off. Appreciate that they are not quantity surveyors or builders so their guess couldn't be relied on for accuracy but they're both very experienced so their opinion would at least count for something.

I think though I will do as suggested which is to ask for a meeting for us all to go through the tender and see where they are seeing the biggest costs. Thanks for the input everyone.

also be aware that prices have rocketed in the last 6 months, between materials rising and labour being essentially restricted causing pent up demand

there could easily have been 20% added from a first consultation 6 months ago

maxsmum · 23-03-2021 04:12PM

Definitely have the meeting, make your adjustments but in my experience once you digest that it's gonna cost more and accept that, it is worth it in the end to have the house your way. Make your peace with it and start picking out the fun stuff!

Dudda · 23-03-2021 04:29PM

I'm presuming you've got planning permission so keep this in mind when looking at reducing the cost. Make sure whatever cost saving changes you or the builder proposes doesn't impact the planning or are minor enough changes that the architect / engineer will still sign off. Last thing you want is to have to apply for planning again or retention when it's finished.

DOCARCH · 23-03-2021 05:08PM

maxsmum wrote: »

Make your peace with it and start picking out the fun stuff!

Will remember that for use with clients.

purplefields · 23-03-2021 11:54PM

We too have been looking at building costs.

In my opinion, it is a terrible time to do this. There is huge pent up demand for construction at the moment. Even before covid, builders were as rare as hens teeth - especially those that would even entertain a quote. (well done for getting three BTW!) I'm not surprised costs are through the roof.

What we are going to do is wait until lockdown ends and either import labour from another European country, or import pre-fab. Consider that in a few months EWSS/PUP will be ending and people will realise they've lost their jobs - hopefully I'm not one of them. The economy is about to take an almighty battering. I am aware already of lots of companies that have closed because of covid.

Things will look much different this time next year.

beggars_bush · 25-03-2021 10:21PM

purplefields wrote: »

We too have been looking at building costs.

In my opinion, it is a terrible time to do this. There is huge pent up demand for construction at the moment. Even before covid, builders were as rare as hens teeth - especially those that would even entertain a quote. (well done for getting three BTW!) I'm not surprised costs are through the roof.

What we are going to do is wait until lockdown ends and either import labour from another European country, or import pre-fab. Consider that in a few months EWSS/PUP will be ending and people will realise they've lost their jobs - hopefully I'm not one of them. The economy is about to take an almighty battering. I am aware already of lots of companies that have closed because of covid.

Things will look much different this time next year.

Everyone who didn't start building this year will be doing it next year.
There'll still be huge demand for everything

adocholiday · 26-03-2021 08:49AM

beggars_bush wrote: »

Everyone who didn't start building this year will be doing it next year.
There'll still be huge demand for everything

Yeah that's our thoughts on it too. We can put it off indefinitely in the hope that prices fall or we can just push on and get it done. Have a second walkthrough with the cheapest builder and our engineer this weekend to make sure that he's covered everything so will see how it goes.

maestroamado · 26-03-2021 08:56AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

€7,400 per meter without glazing ???

theres something very up with those prices.

I am guessing that should be €740 but that seems cheap...

adocholiday · 26-03-2021 09:07AM

maestroamado wrote: »

I am guessing that should be €740 but that seems cheap...

No, the total new floor space is 21 sqm and the prices quoted were 145k, 160k and 170k. Most online calculators say to estimate for €1k-€2k per sqm for an extension but many of those are pre-Covid and our build isn't a single story block extension to the back of the house so stands to reason that it would cost a bit more. Should it be €7k per sqm though was the original question.

sydthebeat · 26-03-2021 09:15AM

maestroamado wrote: »

I am guessing that should be €740 but that seems cheap...

nope......

you may read it again

maestroamado · 26-03-2021 09:43AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

nope......

you may read it again

Is that per metre sq? there may be a format i am not aware of...

Actually on checking middle price of original post about what you mention.

sydthebeat · 26-03-2021 10:04AM

maestroamado wrote: »

Is that per metre sq? there may be a format i am not aware of...

if you work out the floor area of the proposed works, given the information in the 1st post.... and then divide that figure into the 170K that was quoted... you get to a "per sq m" figure

BryanF · 26-03-2021 11:12AM

adocholiday wrote: »

No, the total new floor space is 21 sqm and the prices quoted were 145k, 160k and 170k. Most online calculators say to estimate for €1k-€2k per sqm for an extension but many of those are pre-Covid and our build isn't a single story block extension to the back of the house so stands to reason that it would cost a bit more. Should it be €7k per sqm though was the original question.

You are doing works to the existing house aswell?
And that factored into your m2 rate?

Crazy extension prices

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