Justice League Spoilers from post 980 onward

Johnny Derpp · 22-03-2021 6:22pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Not Ben Affleck, but the Matt Reeves helmed film, with Robert Pattinson in the lead looks to be playing it "real world" again, with a very grungy serial killer vibe.

But even after Affleck left they could have tied it in into dceu canon and for some mad reason, decided not to.
It's a shame because they could have set right all their wrongs here in that, as per mcu, we know that the films don't always have to be released in chronological order, so we could have had a two films showing batmans descent into the broken old man in bvs.

pixelburp · 22-03-2021 6:48pm

Johnny Derpp wrote: »

But even after Affleck left they could have tied it in into dceu canon and for some mad reason, decided not to.
It's a shame because they could have set right all their wrongs here in that, as per mcu, we know that the films don't always have to be released in chronological order, so we could have had a two films showing batmans descent into the broken old man in bvs.

Maybe, but if there's one superhero who arguably excels in being alone in his own universe, it's Batman. To the point I'd almost say his impact is lessened if somewhere past the Gotham city limits lives Superman, Wonder Woman etc. His is the preeminent rogues gallery, full of interesting characters, and batman has the most tonally / thematically flexible status quo.

titan18 · 22-03-2021 7:40pm

This movie would probably be an hour less if they just put everything that's in slow motion into normal speed.

Agent Coulson · 22-03-2021 8:36pm

I always find it amusing that they use slow motion to show what's supposed to be high speeds.

johnny_ultimate · 22-03-2021 8:42pm

I definitely think Batman is one of the weak links in this film. The filmmakers and writers go out of their way to make him a near invincible character who uses tech to withstand the same sort of massive punishment as his super-powered mates. I know that’s a take with its origins in the comic, but I think it fatally sands down a lot of the character’s humanity and vulnerability in the process. The Avengers films have the same power imbalance film with a couple of its characters, but they seem to handle it better than here.

But I guess even bigger than that is there’s no real perspective on the character here. It carries on the brooding of BvS but without the sense of determined, obsessive focus that the character’s given in that film. Affleck is barely present and IMO just a wholly uncharismatic and uninteresting Wayne / Batman.

pixelburp · 22-03-2021 8:48pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I definitely think Batman is one of the weak links in this film. The filmmakers and writers go out of their way to make him a near invincible character who uses tech to withstand the same sort of massive punishment as his super-powered mates. I know that’s a take with its origins in the comic, but I think it fatally sands down a lot of the character’s humanity and vulnerability in the process. The Avengers films have the same power imbalance film with a couple of its characters, but they seem to hand it better than here.

But I guess even bigger than that is there’s no real perspective on the character here. It carries on the brooding of BvS but without the sense of determined, obsessive focus that the character’s given in that film. Affleck is barely present and IMO just a wholly uncharismatic and uninteresting Wayne / Batman.

Frustratingly, WB keep refusing to make him a detective. He's supposed to be the "World's Greatest Detective" and maybe only once on The Dark Knight could I recall him using some detection skills. Otherwise he's just a rich guy playing cosplay. That Pattinson led teaser hints that maybe we'll see some of those smarts, but I'd be unsurprised if the studio insist on reshoots for action set pieces.

Tony EH · 22-03-2021 8:57pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I always find it amusing that they use slow motion to show what's supposed to be high speeds.

Well, if they showed it speeded up it would look like Benny Hill.

The White Wolf · 22-03-2021 9:20pm

To be honest I liked the physics of Flash's powers and the use of slow motion to accentuate them. The whole thing of time slowing around him as opposed to him ripping through normal time was well done and unique...well for me anyway.

CramCycle · 22-03-2021 9:35pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Well, if they showed it speeded up it would look like Benny Hill.

They have a version of Quiksilver in the breakout kitchen scene from Days of Future Past, what the scene looks like at normal speed. It looks like zero craic basically, they randomly move and then fall over. It's nice to see what everyone else does but for a movie scene it would be rubbish.

This said the Flash scenes seem inconsistent (to me) in their style but that could just be the colour saturation in the darker environments. The bit with the car crash near the start, while silly it explodes etc, shows off how careful he has to be not to hurt people as he does it, it was a clever touch.

I'm ignoring the issues with his comments on metabolism and then elsewhere it is space moving around him not him being super fast.

Lithium93_ · 22-03-2021 9:46pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

To be honest I liked the physics of Flash's powers and the use of slow motion to accentuate them. The whole thing of time slowing around him as opposed to him ripping through normal time was well done and unique...well for me anyway.

Kind of like how Gustin's Barry had it explained to him, when he first woke up post lightning bolt, he was moving so fast that the world around him was slowed down. I think that's how it went...

Actually that's another question, I'm assuming Ezra's Barry meeting Gustin's Barry, and Gustin's Flash giving Ezra his superhero moniker in the TV Crisis On Infinite Earths be canon to the long awaited upcoming Flash film

kerplun k · 22-03-2021 9:53pm

Jez, I guess it’s true what they say about giving people an inch. I see RestoreTheSnyderVerse is a thing now. Honestly, I don’t get this.

ZSJL has been an unequivocal success and Snyder's best work to date. It’s not often people get to humiliate their bosses while vindicating themselves and that’s exactly what ZS has done.

I don’t see why he’d even want to continue now. Take the win, enjoy the plaudits and move on.

Lithium93_ · 22-03-2021 9:58pm

kerplun k wrote: »

Jez, I guess it’s true what they say about giving people an inch. I see RestoreTheSnyderVerse is a thing now. Honestly, I don’t get this.

ZSJL has been an unequivocal success and Snyder's best work to date. It’s not often people get to humiliate their bosses while vindicating themselves and that’s exactly what ZS has done.

I don’t see why he’d even want to continue now. Take the win, enjoy the plaudits and move on.

RestoreTheSnyderVerse has been a thing used in combo with ReleaseTheSnyderCut since before movie released

Well according to a Variety article anyways, Snyder is seemingly done.

WarnerMedia CEO Ann Sarnoff says that the release of “Zack Snyder’s Justice League” will complete the director’s superhero trilogy, reinforcing the studio’s desire to move past the social media campaign to hand back control of the DC film universe to the filmmaker.

The White Wolf · 22-03-2021 10:02pm

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Kind of like how Gustin's Barry had it explained to him, when he first woke up post lightning bolt, he was moving so fast that the world around him was slowed down. I think that's how it went...

Actually that's another question, I'm assuming Ezra's Barry meeting Gustin's Barry, and Gustin's Flash giving Ezra his superhero moniker in the TV Crisis On Infinite Earths be canon to the long awaited upcoming Flash film

Would be nice if they returned the favour to Grant, he deserves it even if the show has outstayed its welcome.

As for the Restore movement, it was inevitable I think. I'm cool with the movement as long as they keep it reasonable but they're already pushing it hijacking marketing for Godzilla vs Kong.

the baby bull elephant · 22-03-2021 10:05pm

If only we could get a twitter campaign for the Gareth Evans Deathstroke movie. Really wish we could have seen that.

senordingdong · 22-03-2021 10:07pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I always find it amusing that they use slow motion to show what's supposed to be high speeds.

We saw WW use lightening speed to deflect bullets and it was a little goofy.

Lithium93_ · 22-03-2021 10:10pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

Would be nice if they returned the favour to Grant, he deserves it even if the show has outstayed its welcome.

As for the Restore movement, it was inevitable I think. I'm cool with the movement as long as they keep it reasonable but they're already pushing it hijacking marketing for Godzilla vs Kong.

I think they will, but him appearing is dependent on the show taking a break, long enough that he can leave, go to England, film his cameo part, come back/quarantine - Then resume production on the TV show. Scratch Gustin going to England, turns out The Flash film is filming in Toronto.

Or alternatively just use the footage from Crisis On Infinite Earths.

The Restore movement just need to accept it just ain't gonna happen. Stop hijacking other Warner films marketing.

titan18 · 22-03-2021 10:39pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I always find it amusing that they use slow motion to show what's supposed to be high speeds.

I can sort of understand the slow Mo there at least, but the first hour of introducing characters is just slow motion all over the place.

Aquaman on the pier was about 40 seconds of slow motion waves crashing and his hair moving. Had one for Wonder woman too, cyborg on the football pitch, Flash and the car crash etc. It got a bit too much imo.

Penn · 22-03-2021 10:58pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I definitely think Batman is one of the weak links in this film. The filmmakers and writers go out of their way to make him a near invincible character who uses tech to withstand the same sort of massive punishment as his super-powered mates. I know that’s a take with its origins in the comic, but I think it fatally sands down a lot of the character’s humanity and vulnerability in the process. The Avengers films have the same power imbalance film with a couple of its characters, but they seem to handle it better than here.

But I guess even bigger than that is there’s no real perspective on the character here. It carries on the brooding of BvS but without the sense of determined, obsessive focus that the character’s given in that film. Affleck is barely present and IMO just a wholly uncharismatic and uninteresting Wayne / Batman.

One of the things from the Whedon version that I missed was Batman being more of a mentor to Flash. I think that's where Batman could have played a much bigger part in this film. Not with power, but with experience. Teaching Barry and Cyborg, teaching them all how to be a team, teaching them to learn from his past mistakes.

senordingdong wrote: »

We saw WW use lightening speed to deflect bullets and it was a little goofy.

In fairness I think the reason it looked goofy wasn't just that she was moving so fast, but she was moving so fast on her hunkers, which was just really odd.

expectationlost · 22-03-2021 11:13pm

what the time btw Sup's death and resurrection?

ManOfMystery · 22-03-2021 11:31pm

expectationlost wrote: »

what the time btw Sup's death and resurrection?

I don't think it's ever explicitly stated but going to assume a few months, for 2 reasons - they're still flying the black Superman banner in the London shot to commemorate his death, and Snyder has stated in post-film interviews this week that Lois in JL is pregnant - this isn't very obvious in the film from her figure so I can't imagine too much time has passed.

CramCycle · 22-03-2021 11:40pm

expectationlost wrote: »

what the time btw Sup's death and resurrection?

A friend of mine pointed this out to me, I parked my brain at the door but he pointed out the huge time lapse issues. Suddenly its ages but then all the markers seem to imply its a fortnight, and then its 3 months, and so on.

Wedwood · 22-03-2021 11:54pm

Watched this over a couple of evenings, thought it was a decent enough film and far more coherent than the Whedon version. Thought the 4 hour running time went by fairly quickly, helped by having the movie divided into chapters to take breaks.

Not too sure I want to see the epilogue expanded into a sequel though, it serves as a glimpse into what might have been I suppose.

If you compare it to its Marvel counterpart, Avengers Infinity War, I’d put Snyders Justice League as the better of the two movies.

Snake Plisken · 23-03-2021 12:02am

Wow they have absolute morons running Warner Bros, no more Snyder verse. Ayer cut of Suicide Squade gone. Future movies will be standalone not linked in anyway(they don't want to copy the Marvel model). Very similar to Kathleen Kennedy messing up the Star Wars universe.

Tony EH · 23-03-2021 12:04am

Wedwood wrote: »

Not too sure I want to see the epilogue expanded into a sequel though, it serves as a glimpse into what might have been I suppose.

That entire epilogue should have hit the cutting room floor.

Agent Coulson · 23-03-2021 12:08am

WB say they won't be releasing the Ayer cut of Suicide Squad and in doing so are saying there is an Ayer cut.

Tony EH · 23-03-2021 12:10am

^
TBH, what little triumph there is in the Snyder cut of 'Justice League' certainly doesn't warrant anything from 'Suicide Squad'. I cannot imagine anything that could be done with that movie to make it a good one.

Agent Coulson · 23-03-2021 12:17am

Suicide Squad was a monstrosity of a film and Ayer was there from start to finish so I really don't see it improving much no matter how many cuts of the film they have.

Snyder didn't get to finish his film due to tragic circumstances and his cut did deserved a chance to get seen for that reason alone especially after what Whedon did to his work.

MOR316 · 23-03-2021 2:29am

I do not want to see anymore of Jared Leto's Joker so please, WB, do the right thing and do not release any cut of The Suicide Squad.

Deadshot? May as well just rename the character Will Smith.
Margot Robbie is fine as Harley Quinn but, not too interested in seeing her again

Could care less about the rest of the characters

ManOfMystery · 23-03-2021 9:41am

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Future movies will be standalone not linked in anyway(they don't want to copy the Marvel model). Very similar to Kathleen Kennedy messing up the Star Wars universe.

It's a shame, as the Marvel model works - whether WB like it or not. These characters in the comics were never all standalone, you always had the teams like X-men and Avengers, then standalone titles where they all got together. It's those dynamics as an ensemble that elevated the comics and characters to something else.

Snyder's ensemble work may not have been for everyone, but regardless of that there is a hunger out there to see the characters together and bouncing off each other. Joker was great and I'm sure Matt Reeves' take on Batman will be brilliant (going by his previous work), but I also feel like WB are missing a huge beat by only going down the solo film route.

The White Wolf · 23-03-2021 10:03am

Agent Coulson wrote: »

WB say they won't be releasing the Ayer cut of Suicide Squad and in doing so are saying there is an Ayer cut.

I read that interview and it's another tone deaf piece of PR from Warner Media. They're asking for trouble with the timing of it.

Justice League **Spoilers from post 980 onward**

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Justice League Spoilers from post 980 onward