United Ireland....... Persuade the unionists.....

fryup · 21-03-2021 12:16AM

"cheer like protestants"

bilbot79 · 21-03-2021 12:25AM

Romance aside there are only the following competitions at hand:

HSE vs NHS
Rip Off Republic vs Consumer Law Champion
Excessive housing costs vs Reasonable housing costs
EU Membership vs Non EU Membership

Ireland has a lot to do in order to be ready to absorb the north and Britain has a way to decline before it becomes a good idea for Unionists to switch to UI

21-03-2021 12:27AM

Five Eighth wrote: »

Well, if the vast majority of Unionist and 'most' NI Nationalists would vote to remain tied to the UK, then a UI is never going to happen.

Surely they cannot be described as 'Nationalists' if they would vote for the Union?

If they vote for the union they are not nationalists or republicans they are unionists. They mightn't like that term but what else would they be?

21-03-2021 12:34AM

I think both communities are too comfortable up there to vote for a UI. The only way i see it happen is if Scotland leave resulting in a breakup of the union. England and Wales go it alone and the North basically gets flung out the door for being the expensive useless nuisance of a place that it is.

bilbot79 · 21-03-2021 12:34AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If they vote for the union they are not nationalists or republicans they are unionists. They mightn't like that term but what else would they be?

That's a bit silly if separating from the UK turned out to be a bad idea.

What if the choice were remaining with the union or jumping off a cliff?

'well they voted for the union so they're a unionist'

This kind of attitude is not nationalist, it's extremist. You don't get to decide that a person is with or against when it's actually a question of degree.

All nationalists want a united ireland. Some care about what kind of a united ireland they actually get and some, like idiot Brexiteers, just want it at all costs.

21-03-2021 12:37AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

What was West Germany still carries what was East Germany financially 30 years later.

Stay away from the first few results on Google.

21-03-2021 12:41AM

bilbot79 wrote: »

That's a bit silly if separating from the UK turned out to be a bad idea.

What if the choice were remaining with the union or jumping off a cliff?

'well they voted for the union so they're a unionist'

This kind of attitude is not nationalist, it's extremist. You don't get to decide that a person is with or against when it's actually a question of degree.

All nationalists want a united ireland. Some care about what kind of a united ireland they actually get and some, like idiot Brexiteers, just want it at all costs.

If in a vote for a united Ireland you vote to stay in the union. You are a unionist. You can't claim to be a nationalist and vote against a united ireland.

bilbot79 · 21-03-2021 12:47AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If in a vote for a united Ireland you vote to stay in the union. You are a unionist. You can't claim to be a nationalist and vote against a united ireland.

But you can. You can say 'im a nationalist but this deal in front of me is so s*** that only an idiot would vote for it.'

What if now was the wrong time and voting for actually ruined the state both sides of the border?

All you are really saying here is 'i expect you to vote for a UI regardless of the consequences and if you don't you can f*** off'

Really helpful

Zebra3 · 21-03-2021 12:53AM

Blanco100 wrote: »

I don't agree with this, secretly yes the DUP are losing hearts and minds of young WC unionists but they will never slate them publicly.

They would still vote for them in the morning.

Think of its as a microcosm of the relationship between Britain and NI. They get shafted but will always come back for more.

Most will, but when the heart isn't in it, people will stay at at home if the weather is cack, they won't return back from college to vote, or bother if they get in late from work and are knackered.

On the other hand, SF in North Belfast will get the vote out when it's truly "one of their own" to vote for and with policies that young people can connect with.

The continued emigration of young protestants and the hoovering up of the best jobs (many in the public service) by young catholics means the writing is well and truly on the wall.

I think it was Gerry Kelly who was asked about the RUC raid on SF offices at Stormont in 2005 about nationalist boycotting the force and he laughed and said something like "no, no, we're taking over the security apparatus bit by bit as every time a nationalist joins".

To get back to the point of unionists/loyalists getting out to vote for the DUP, SF won NB in 2019 by <2,000 votes. Alliance vote jumped by more than that and combined with stay at home voters disenfranchised by an out of touch party and candidate, the seat was probably there for them.

Now it's gone, and it's hard to see SF losing it any time in the future.

21-03-2021 01:10AM

Deleted User wrote: »

How can you honestly expect to solve under lying social/political issues,when the british politiams (conservative party in particular) use it to stir pot and can count upon one side to prop up a government from time to time??

Its in britains interest to keep people at each others throats there,its been defacto british policy since the presbetrian led 1798 rebellion to play both communities againest each other (divide and conquer,as we were taught in national school growing up)

I'll go with, where's there's a will, there's a way.

There are too many factions in the North, all dependent on the divisions within their society to exist, for their power/influence to continue. Whether it's SF, the Republicans, the Unionists, etc. They all have skin in the game, and have zero desire to resolve the "underlying" problems within their society. Irrespective of whether the British government wants, those divisions will continue...

And why do you expect these divisions to magically disappear with unification? You really expect to see the IRA work within the Irish legal and political system, when they've been able to operate independently for so long? These people have no desire to lose their power, and influence... and they won't have much interest in direction from Dublin that runs counter to their interests.

As long as these divisions exist in the North, there should be no unification. Let them sort out their own mess first, rather than bringing it all down on our heads.

Hyperbollix · 21-03-2021 01:12AM

If a reunification referendum was called and won in the short to medium term, I believe that would be the Irish version of Brexit. A heart over head nostalgia trip which feels good for a short time, until reality sets in and we all realize it's not in the slightest bit workable.

The only possible way this gets done is in the distant future if and when politics actually works properly in NI and everything isn't about Green v Orange. When they get their shít together (and we get ours together too) and theres a long teased out debate over years about how this is actually going to work, only THEN should there be any thought about re-joining.

cj maxx · 21-03-2021 01:13AM

Five Eighth wrote: »

Well, if the vast majority of Unionist and 'most' NI Nationalists would vote to remain tied to the UK, then a UI is never going to happen.

Surely they cannot be described as 'Nationalists' if they would vote for the Union?

My point exactly. The term nationalist came to describe catholic. Most of them aren't Nationalist. Why give up free health care for one you need to pay for etc . Most of the 'nationalist ' population just vote along long entrenched religious lines and not a meaningful desire for unification

21-03-2021 01:16AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Stay away from the first few results on Google.

https://youtu.be/qanqNZYBS0I

Worth a watch.

bilbot79 · 21-03-2021 01:18AM

Hyperbollix wrote: »

If a reunification referendum was called and won in the short to medium term, I believe that would be the Irish version of Brexit. A heart over head nostalgia trip which feels good for a short time, until reality sets in and we all realize it's not in the slightest bit workable.

The only possible way this gets done is in the distant future if and when politics actually works properly in NI and everything isn't about Green v Orange. When they get their shít together (and we get ours together too) and theres a long teased out debate over years about how this is actually going to work, only THEN should there be any thought about re-joining.

100% this. The loudest voices on both sides of the divide are missing one key detail in the whole debate.. we have to live together and the other side is not going to simply disappear or change their minds.

TBH I think some form of either independence or shared ownership between UK and Ireland is the way to go.

Blanco100 · 21-03-2021 01:24AM

Hyperbollix wrote: »

If a reunification referendum was called and won in the short to medium term, I believe that would be the Irish version of Brexit. A heart over head nostalgia trip which feels good for a short time, until reality sets in and we all realize it's not in the slightest bit workable.

The only possible way this gets done is in the distant future if and when politics actually works properly in NI and everything isn't about Green v Orange. When they get their shít together (and we get ours together too) and theres a long teased out debate over years about how this is actually going to work, only THEN should there be any thought about re-joining.

Would be serious appetite for a UI in England/Wales for example if it landed the Northeast of England/ Swansea or Cardiff a shed load of public service jobs as a result.

I'd say Britain and the EU would even subsidise us until there was relative self sufficency.

The key isn't winning Unionist hearts and minds. It's buying their trust with incentives in their pocket. EU via Ireland may make them an offer they can't refuse.

And Britain would be only to happy to not be the bad guy and still have them off the books.

suicide_circus · 21-03-2021 02:15AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think many of us in ROI need to be persuaded why we would want to unite with the North, not something that would ever interest me anyway

This is it, it's heart vs head for me. I like the idea of UI in a vague misty eyed way but in the cold light of day i can see it's littered with difficulties, pit falls and contradictions. I've no desire to "get one over" on the loyalist community. The 28 counties are the only republic i've ever known. Over the last 100 years NI has developed an entirely distinct identity which is somewhat alien to me.

Hmmm.

AllForIt · 21-03-2021 02:18AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think many of us in ROI need to be persuaded why we would want to unite with the North, not something that would ever interest me anyway

Here here. It's all a Brits Out thing for many ppl rather than they could care less about a 'united Ireland'.

Why on earth would we wish to join with ppl of the ilk of Peter Robinson and DUP types who are hugely conservative. They wouldn't disappear in a 'united Ireland'.

21-03-2021 03:30AM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://youtu.be/qanqNZYBS0I

Worth a watch.

Just to be clear...

I'm not doubting that western Germany has been more prosperous...that is indisputable.

I haven't seen that particle video so will definitely give it a gander.

cameramonkey · 21-03-2021 03:36AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

This is it, it's heart vs head for me. I like the idea of UI in a vague misty eyed way but in the cold light of day i can see it's littered with difficulties, pit falls and contradictions. I've no desire to "get one over" on the loyalist community. The 28 counties are the only republic i've ever known. Over the last 100 years NI has developed an entirely distinct identity which is somewhat alien to me.

Hmmm.

28 counties ? What are the other 2 counties ?

Junkyard Tom · 21-03-2021 06:57AM

Deleted User wrote: »

As long as these divisions exist in the North, there should be no unification. Let them sort out their own mess first, rather than bringing it all down on our heads.

The divisions exist because of partition. Remove the border and the likes of Sammy Wilson and Gregory Campbell just become powerless obnoxious loudmouths you see in every pub in Ireland. The remnants of paramilitaries in the border areas have any excuses, they think they have to exist, pulled from under their feet without British jurisdiction.

You have it backwards.

21-03-2021 07:57AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll go with, where's there's a will, there's a way.

There are too many factions in the North, all dependent on the divisions within their society to exist, for their power/influence to continue. Whether it's SF, the Republicans, the Unionists, etc. They all have skin in the game, and have zero desire to resolve the "underlying" problems within their society. Irrespective of whether the British government wants, those divisions will continue...

And why do you expect these divisions to magically disappear with unification? You really expect to see the IRA work within the Irish legal and political system, when they've been able to operate independently for so long? These people have no desire to lose their power, and influence... and they won't have much interest in direction from Dublin that runs counter to their interests.

As long as these divisions exist in the North, there should be no unification. Let them sort out their own mess first, rather than bringing it all down on our heads.

These divisions exist as a result of british policy,to keep people at each others throats to divide and comquer......sectarian rioting (and killing)has been occuring since early 1800s in belfast

The ira is long gone,and members starting to off of old age......you cannot have reconcilliation without truth being known,its a quarter of a century over,and still brits refuse to establish a truth and reconcilliaton commission,despite hundreds of unsolved and unlikely to be solved murders from all sides

It wont be all sunshine and lollipops,but long term,the only realistic hope for peace and prosperity is in a utd ireland imo......everything else has been tried and failed at this stage,

Sunny Disposition · 21-03-2021 10:03AM

NI has been a total failure, and a United Ireland will be a secular state where no will discriminate against them. They’ve a much better future in a UI than in a tense NI in which a potentially bitter Catholic population are a permanent majority.

Del2005 · 21-03-2021 10:08AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If they vote for the union they are not nationalists or republicans they are unionists. They mightn't like that term but what else would they be?

If the vote is to join an Ireland with a different flag, different national anthem and with each province becoming a federal state( the only viable solution to incorporate NI) that's not the Ireland they have been dreaming to join for generations. So not voting to join The Federal Union of Ireland, they want to join the Republic of Ireland , makes them unionist?

The nationalists will hold out till they sing Amhrán na bhFiann on their whole island Republic of Ireland under their Green White and Orange flag.

21-03-2021 10:58AM

Deleted User wrote: »

It wont be all sunshine and lollipops,but long term,the only realistic hope for peace and prosperity is in a utd ireland imo......everything else has been tried and failed at this stage,

A distinct and separate NI independent of both the republic and the US hasn't been "tried".

I honestly don't see any unification with the North as being a positive.

How long is long term?

pgj2015 · 21-03-2021 11:00AM

If we had to change our flag, national anthem etc I would not vote for a united Ireland. They are either joining the republic or they can stay part of Britain or become a separate country from the UK and the republic of Ireland.

ulster · 21-03-2021 11:05AM

martinedwards wrote: »

Ok instead of the usual, yellow numberplate/petrol bomb as soon as you cross the border/Derry girls are easy thread......

Boards seems to be a strongly Pro united Ireland community

Ok, lets say that there is a border poll.

Having a minority with strong anti ruler views has historically not been the most peaceful system in the North.

so,

how would you persuade the folk that are terrified of all the things that they PERCEIVE to be against them in an all island Irish nation?

and lets be honest, "Suck it up, my auntie Brigit was spat on by a brit soldier in 1972" isn't going to persuade the likes of Sammy Wilson that it's a good idea.

Discuss!

You sound like you should belong in a vacuum

21-03-2021 11:05AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A distinct and separate NI independent of both the republic and the US hasn't been "tried".

1922 to 1969 was effectively this....it essentially ended in civil war?....it would go same again,gowls talking about a federal/devolved stormont are blinded to history and facts,to a worrying degree

I honestly don't see any unification with the North as being a positive.

How long is long term?

Il agree to disagree....imo its only viable option going forward

21-03-2021 11:43AM

The average Protestant from Donegal or Monaghan or Dublin who would be from the same stock as the NI Protestants seem to have settled well as Irish people. The same would eventually happen in a united Ireland.

mehico · 21-03-2021 11:55AM

Conversations around a united Ireland often become polarised and folk from strong Unionist backgrounds are unlikely to be persuaded of the benefits of a UI but there is a large middle ground now in NI that will potentially hold the balance in any future border polls and this is the section of population that needs to be pursuaded either way.

Traditional Unionist political parties no longer form a majority in Stormont and how can Unionism adapt to this political reality going forward.

frosty123 · 21-03-2021 12:44PM

Persuade the unionists??

Well I suppose we can start by stop bombing & killing them, especially those living along the border...but voting for the political wing of the terror group hell bent on ethnic cleansing them isn't going to help matters.

United Ireland....... Persuade the unionists.....

Comments